McManus rejects proposal for 11-team Super League

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

What's special about the Magic Weekend... even if it's so important, why should we tie ourselves up in knots for one season?

Why should 1 non SL club be "selected" into SL (in a rushed half baked manner) just so we have this magic weekend?   And why should current SL clubs then risk relegation (after the trauma of Covid and resultant losses) after selecting a championship side on a thoughtless whim. 

The new tv contract is coming and RL need to pause and THINK about the future, not waste time fiddling with where to put the sticking plaster.

 

To be fair, they have thought and the apparent answer was a 12 team league with 1 up and down. 

The natural solution is to get a 12th team to fill that slot. 

[Dave T]

Just now, Eddie said:

Widnes have been world champions, and both them and Leigh can draw bigger crowds than London or Toulouse. They may not be glamorous locations but you’re too quick to dismiss them. 
 

Nobody but the big five (and potentially Toronto) can draw five figure crowds either. Might as well boot Cas and Catalans out of SL.

Indeed, I don't think people can use the arguments that yipyee has and then not judge others by the same standards. 

I don't agree with you on Toulouse, but many of our clubs can't get 10k, we shouldn't use that as a stick to beat championship clubs with. 

[Harry Stottle]

31 minutes ago, yipyee said:

But thats not true,

Catalan only has a limited amount of spots and are based in one area.

Without multiple academys in the UK in addition to the big clubs we would not have Walmsley or Hardaker!

When Crudaders had a brief stint in SL there was an influx of Welh players to the league, why didnt these players come through the heartland academys??

Similar with London!

The more FT clubs in different areas the better and we will see more players being developed.

I actually think clubs employ 90 overseas players because they can as it seems to be a mission of each club to fill all quota spots.

When clubs give youth a go most step up to the plate.

I would reduce the overseas quota to 3 and remove rhe exception of the islanders as this would help remove the overseas dross and allow player development.

Regarding Catalan being based in one area, what has that got to do with it, irrespective of where lads come from SL clubs sign them on. 

And re Hardaker and Walmsley that is exactly what I said that SL clubs don't just get lads from their own towns, but they are bad examples of SL teams getting youth as per your regards to Toulouse, Haradacre first signed for Fev and Walmsey for Batley.

What I will agree with you though is re the overseas quota being at a ceiling of 3, but I would go a step further if a club employs an overseas coach he would become part of the 3.

[Harry Stottle]

9 hours ago, yipyee said:

Leigh and Widnes are just too small, have had several attempts and cannot get 5 figure

And London can?

NOT wishing to dissapoint you but Toulouse have yet to prove they can get anywhere near 5 figures, and Catalan have never recorded a 5 figure Average.

[Tommygilf]

Whichever expansion team gets in as a result of this, they'll have significantly reduced costs on their ground rent...

They're clearly living in some people's heads 100% rent free!

[Davo5]

22 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And London can?

NOT wishing to dissapoint you but Toulouse have yet to prove they can get anywhere near 5 figures, and Catalan have never recorded a 5 figure Average.

So you've rubbished the academy/player development argument for  admitting Toulouse and now their potential to draw crowds,what's next and how are the other contenders doing on that front ?

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

So you've rubbished the academy/player development argument for  admitting Toulouse and now their potential to draw crowds,what's next and how are the other contenders doing on that front ?

You've used the word ' potential ' , all Harry did was point out their actual figures , as we all know , London has potential 

[JM2010]

These always turn into expansion teams vs heartlands arguments. 

I think we should use League 1 for admitting expansion teams and then p and r with some minimum criteria for the path to SL

[Davo5]

13 minutes ago, SL17 said:

They can just build a reserve team. No need for academies

Didn't Leigh disband both their academy and reserve teams the last time they got promotion.

[JM2010]

How about a play off between the top 4 ranked teams based on a set criteria. I definitely think recent league position should be one of the criteria. Maybe even only invite clubs in the top half of the championship to apply and then narrow it down to 4 if more than 4 apply

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, SL17 said:

That’s fine in a normal scenario. They are asking for a 12th club in SL should Toronto not return.

How or what criteria would you set? Would  the RFL require a bond?

Maybe SLE should just auction it for cold hard cash and 12m protection from relegation. 

[M j M]

Can we all agree that whatever team gets the 12th place, the last club it will or should be is Leigh, who brought very little (nothing?) to the comp last time they were in it and whose record since on and off field does not in any way justify inclusion. But especially if you're the sort who really doesn't like clubs which live off the unreliable largesse of one owner.

[Eddie]

57 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And London can?

NOT wishing to dissapoint you but Toulouse have yet to prove they can get anywhere near 5 figures, and Catalan have never recorded a 5 figure Average.

If you took away fans out Toulouse barely get over 4 figures. That might change, and hopefully it will, but for Yippee to slate Widnes for having poor crowds and then big up Toulouse in the same sentence is crazy. 
 

If Widnes had a sustained run in SL they’d get bigger crowds than Wakey, Salford or Huddersfield do. 

[Eddie]

Just now, M j M said:

Can we all agree that whatever team gets the 12th place, the last club it will or should be is Leigh, who brought very little (nothing?) to the comp last time they were in it and whose record since on and off field does not in any way justify inclusion. But especially if you're the sort who really doesn't like clubs which live off the unreliable largesse of one owner.

Regarding your last comment, would you include Huddersfield and/or Catalans in that group?

[Harry Stottle]

46 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Whichever expansion team gets in as a result of this, they'll have significantly reduced costs on their ground rent...

They're clearly living in some people's heads 100% rent free!

So which are the expansion teams that could get in? 

Have you already discounted 'heartland' teams?

Are you sure as to what French politics as in the case of Toulouse and ground rents are?

Clubs that are in rented stadiums will not subject to ground rents will they?

[Harry Stottle]

37 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

So you've rubbished the academy/player development argument for  admitting Toulouse and now their potential to draw crowds,what's next and how are the other contenders doing on that front ?

I ain't rubbishing anything Dav, it is my opinion of how I see proceedings panning out, thanks for your input though.

 

[Davo5]

4 minutes ago, M j M said:

Can we all agree that whatever team gets the 12th place, the last club it will or should be is Leigh, who brought very little (nothing?) to the comp last time they were in it and whose record since on and off field does not in any way justify inclusion. But especially if you're the sort who really doesn't like clubs which live off the unreliable largesse of one owner.

Oh you've done it now,start ducking.

[Davo5]

6 minutes ago, Eddie said:

If you took away fans out Toulouse barely get over 4 figures. That might change, and hopefully it will, but for Yippee to slate Widnes for having poor crowds and then big up Toulouse in the same sentence is crazy. 
 

If Widnes had a sustained run in SL they’d get bigger crowds than Wakey, Salford or Huddersfield do. 

How many years do you want,they have had quite a few already and failed.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

What's special about the Magic Weekend... even if it's so important, why should we tie ourselves up in knots for one season?

It's a money maker and it's already been penciled in.

It's currently August. The relegated team and promoted team is usually known by end of September/start of October. If one gets announced before then, we're actually ahead of time.

[gingerjon]

24 minutes ago, M j M said:

Can we all agree that whatever team gets the 12th place, the last club it will or should be is Leigh, who brought very little (nothing?) to the comp last time they were in it and whose record since on and off field does not in any way justify inclusion. But especially if you're the sort who really doesn't like clubs which live off the unreliable largesse of one owner.

Like you say, it's a whole game solution.

[Blind side johnny]

1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

What's special about the Magic Weekend... even if it's so important, why should we tie ourselves up in knots for one season?

Why should 1 non SL club be "selected" into SL (in a rushed half baked manner) just so we have this magic weekend?   And why should current SL clubs then risk relegation (after the trauma of Covid and resultant losses) after selecting a championship side on a thoughtless whim. 

The new tv contract is coming and RL need to pause and THINK about the future, not waste time fiddling with where to put the sticking plaster.

 

I believe that it is a key component of the Sky contract. This is already reduced for 2021; a further reduction isn't worth contemplating, particularly in the renegotation year.

[Red Willow]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Any punishment will stop Toronto surviving , basically we've a week to make up our mind on the deal any new investor/buyer is offered 

So we just ignore it?

We have to be consistent, what other team would this behaviour be ignored? If Wakey or Salford failed to meet their commitments there would be repercussions. 

 

[Gambass]

14 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Second, can we negotiate a TV deal in France for next year under the proviso that the are 2 French clubs? Check their conditions, and if fair, Toulouse in.

You guys should really stop this 'french TV deal' nonsense. Under the current circonstances, it will never happen.

As a best case scenario, L'Equipe will take it where Bein left (ie producing Catalans home game and that's it). No french TV will put any extra money in the competition as the value is simply not there, and won't be there neither with an eventual addition of Toulouse.

Sports channels need subscribers and Super League don't bring them. Simple as that.

I do believe this situation can be changed and that eventually french RL can become self-sufficient..., but for that to happen, you don't need a five year plan, you need a multiple decades plan to make RL a valuable product to the eyes of enough french viewers. We are not there, not by a long shot and as it stands there is no strategy put in place for that to happen

We have already lost one decade and half since Catalans inclusion...

 

[yipyee]

2 hours ago, Red Willow said:

Isn't there less money next year from the Sky deal ? 

Not sure the current Canada experiment is viable,  

If Toronto return I'd say that they have to meet certain criteria, the first being full visas for overseas players rather than the 6 month ones they use now.The same criteria would have to be in place for any overseas player unless joining with less than 6 months of the year left.

There has to be some punishment for this year as would apply to the British clubs had this been any of them.

 

Haha Toronto dont get any sky money so kicking them out for someone else will compound the problem!

Also the UK govenment pad millions to UK clubs to support, Toronto didnt get a penny of that either.

I dont think you can punish them for issues outside of their control for example visa issues or closed borders!

Its not like they have just folded as they cant be bothered anymore or going into administration

[whatmichaelsays]

42 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

I believe that it is a key component of the Sky contract. This is already reduced for 2021; a further reduction isn't worth contemplating, particularly in the renegotation year.

There's a much more obvious answer to the question "why bother with Magic Weekend?" and that answer is "it makes money". As a sport that's perennially short of that, why would we undermine it? 

The problem is that we have people pushing this myth that Magic Weekend was "about expansion" when it was nothing of the sort. It was a concept devised to fill hotel beds in south Wales, and has developed into an event that city councils, tourism boards and football clubs are prepared to compete with each other to host. Why wouldn't we want that?

We probably under-use Magic and under-sell it, but what else is new in RL?