Widnes Give Up

[Spidey]

11 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Really sad for the game in the Halton area and I’m sure the club must be gutted. Not sure why a few posters above seem to be saying Widnes are giving up or can’t be bothered though, I’m sure they’d be interested to hear from you if you can help them fund it. 

I pay them each week by attending games, buying shirts etc, on the assumption they still have aspirations for SL....i'm questioning that ambition now

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

If we lose our Academy, we might as well just shut up shop. It's been the one shining light over the last 10 years of gloom.

Pretty much how I feel about Widnes... not that we've had as much gloom as Bradford

[Spidey]

12 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The local lads of any quality will go to Saints Wigan or Warrington as they do already. It needs a point of difference otherwise it'll just be a worse version of what already exists and if anything will weaken the academy pool.

Widnes operated in that environment and still produced SL players... Leigh can fill that void.  They may not be the best players, but Leigh wont be the best in the league.  Cast offs from Wigan may be more than good enough for a mid table Leigh

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Spidey said:

Widnes operated in that environment and still produced SL players... Leigh can fill that void.  They may not be the best players, but Leigh wont be the best in the league.  Cast offs from Wigan may be more than good enough for a mid table Leigh

I think the point being made or at least suggested in the OP article is that 'cast offs' won't be good enough for approval. Yes Widnes' academy did produce players for the first team, but Widnes didn't come close to winning anything or have a system that could protect them from relegation either and now ultimately they are dropping it. Of course it will bring through some good players as Bradford and London's have for example, but its clear from the OP that Super League want those players to be in a high quality academy environment not "who's left RLFC".

As I see it an academy should be one of the clubs major points of investment, especially if you are a top division (aspiring) club that cannot command large wages/transfer fees.

[lucky 7]

2 hours ago, iffleyox said:

only if they're going to make it a pre-condition that all SL clubs have got academies...

I think it's going to go that way

[lucky 7]

45 minutes ago, Spidey said:

This is all going towards a closed shop. How else can they contain Academies at SL clubs.

If a club gets relegated do they then lose their Academy licence?  

It's my understanding that in the not too distance future you will have to have a category 1 academy up and running before to you a get a super league place, which in affect means all clubs in the championship with aspirations of playing in super league will have to have category 1 academies.

[Spidey]

23 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think the point being made or at least suggested in the OP article is that 'cast offs' won't be good enough for approval. Yes Widnes' academy did produce players for the first team, but Widnes didn't come close to winning anything or have a system that could protect them from relegation either and now ultimately they are dropping it. Of course it will bring through some good players as Bradford and London's have for example, but its clear from the OP that Super League want those players to be in a high quality academy environment not "who's left RLFC".

As I see it an academy should be one of the clubs major points of investment, especially if you are a top division (aspiring) club that cannot command large wages/transfer fees.

Only a few teams win things. So the rest of the academies just need to produce SL standard players which Widnes did, no reason now why Leigh can’t step into that place

Cast offs may be the wrong term. Think about if there are two of excellent full backs at Wigan but one is favoured and the other wants game time so moves on

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Spidey said:

Only a few teams win things. So the rest of the academies just need to produce SL standard players which Widnes did

Did they?

I thought Widnes' super league experience was one of mediocre to abysmal but if you believe that is the mythical "super league standard" then fair play!

I would agree that might sound harsh but clearly the move is now to a point where clubs who just draw from the same pool of players but at a lower standard won't be acceptable going forwards as essentially it seems pointless as 85% of those players won't make it anyway and will just be lost to the game. There has to be ambition to at least try and be best not just say "well we've got no money so we'll accept being worse than the big 6" (I include Huddersfield there who alongside Warrington have massively improved their academy set up).

If you're not going to do anything differently or invest in the academy, and thus just be a worse version of the clubs around you, then why bother? You may as well do what loads of clubs do anyway and get players who have been through the Leeds, Wigan and Saints etc academies and first teams.

[sweaty craiq]

what is the central funding to run a Cat 1 academy?

[Wanderer]

Sad day.

This will result in the further contraction of the league game in Widnes. As the game contracts in the heartlands, Widnes have been squeezed out by richer & more successful neighbours, as well as disastrously poor management in the last decade. We messed up at the wrong time.

Professional rugby league in Widnes is coming to an end. Anyone interested can go and play in St Helens, Warrington or Salford so its OK, apparently

 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

10 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

what is the central funding to run a Cat 1 academy?

It was matched funding up to £100k.

[The Future is League]

1 hour ago, lucky 7 said:

It's my understanding that in the not too distance future you will have to have a category 1 academy up and running before to you a get a super league place, which in affect means all clubs in the championship with aspirations of playing in super league will have to have category 1 academies.

I would guess that  any club who aspires to playing in Super League have possibly been tipped the wink already on this

[tag]

Why don’t clubs scrap academies and leave players at their community clubs? Send coaches out to the communities to help develop the community coaches instead. This keeps the amateur game strong and saves clubs money.

[Spidey]

10 minutes ago, tag said:

Why don’t clubs scrap academies and leave players at their community clubs? Send coaches out to the communities to help develop the community coaches instead. This keeps the amateur game strong and saves clubs money.

Clubs lose control and they don’t like that

[DoubleD]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Did they?

I thought Widnes' super league experience was one of mediocre to abysmal but if you believe that is the mythical "super league standard" then fair play!

I would agree that might sound harsh but clearly the move is now to a point where clubs who just draw from the same pool of players but at a lower standard won't be acceptable going forwards as essentially it seems pointless as 85% of those players won't make it anyway and will just be lost to the game. There has to be ambition to at least try and be best not just say "well we've got no money so we'll accept being worse than the big 6" (I include Huddersfield there who alongside Warrington have massively improved their academy set up).

If you're not going to do anything differently or invest in the academy, and thus just be a worse version of the clubs around you, then why bother? You may as well do what loads of clubs do anyway and get players who have been through the Leeds, Wigan and Saints etc academies and first teams.

Very much this, which Hull KR recognise..........but i'm yet to see how they will do things differently.

A lot of knee jerk reactions on this thread, and I sympathise as it is a sad to see the demise. However, if Widnes are not planning on being a full time professional organisation then it really defeats the point. The Academy would not get the attention/focus required and nor would it provide a pathway to Elite level. Therefore, quite rightly, they should not be at the top table. The Elite level of academy needs to be strengthened, not pandered to the weakest. We've already seen good work by likes of Saints in virgin areas such as Cornwall, and hopefully more of this will take place with the indication that non-heartland areas will be more of a focus.

[meast]

Should an academy grade be a criteria of RFL/SL membership?

Surely clubs should be made to run an academy, and reduce outgoings elsewhere?

I know, talking to the Huddersfield chairman, it's something my club are rightly proud of and something that's hugely important to us to have academy graduates representing the town.

[Damien]

37 minutes ago, tag said:

Why don’t clubs scrap academies and leave players at their community clubs? Send coaches out to the communities to help develop the community coaches instead. This keeps the amateur game strong and saves clubs money.

RL is in competition with other sports for the best players. Something like that will just drive players away.

[Spidey]

21 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

 However, if Widnes are not planning on being a full time professional organisation then it really defeats the point.

That’s my problem. Widnes no longer want to work back to being a Full Time outfit it seems. The this lack of ambition bothers me, I was under the impression moving to PT was trying to consolidate things. Looks like it’s the long term plan now.

[JonM]

3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

The local lads of any quality will go to Saints Wigan or Warrington as they do already. It needs a point of difference otherwise it'll just be a worse version of what already exists and if anything will weaken the academy pool.

There's around about 20 current SL players who were in Widnes academy and (unsurprisingly) more than that in the championship  - quick count up says that more than half of clubs in SL have at least one. If you take the selfish view, there's really no point in a part-time club spending a decent chunk of their annual income on young players who are just going to end up at Leeds, Warrington, Salford, Leigh, Hull etc.

[meast]

38 minutes ago, Damien said:

RL is in competition with other sports for the best players. Something like that will just drive players away.

But the argument could be that without an academy or scholarship then where do players come from in terms of development?

[DoubleD]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

That’s my problem. Widnes no longer want to work back to being a Full Time outfit it seems. The this lack of ambition bothers me, I was under the impression moving to PT was trying to consolidate things. Looks like it’s the long term plan now.

I think the writing was on the wall with the mass exodus to Ottawa sadly 

[Gooleboy]

1 minute ago, DoubleD said:

I think the writing was on the wall with the mass exodus to Ottawa sadly 

What are they doing now?

[yipyee]

8 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

This is terrible news.  I cant be too hard on Widnes,  when you cant offer ft contracts you are just helping other clubs.  We should also look at how they had money kept from them before.  In a crowded área but this is another blow to the game.  

If a club cant afford an academy then we need more clubs ganging up together to fund joint programs.  For example,  a Manchester academy where all clubs around chip in is doable. 

All the best players from Widnes end up at saints or warrington so no major loss to the sport.

Its their involvement with the cumbria academy thats a blow.

For me each region should have one academy part funded by the rfl with the nearest semi pro/pro club leading the way and other clubs also benefiting.

If mergers occured the academy could be based at the feeder clubs 

For example widnes for cheshire/ wire

Leigh for wigan

Wakey for cas or vise versa

Hull kr for hull

[paulwalker71]

3 hours ago, JonM said:

 If you take the selfish view, there's really no point in a part-time club spending a decent chunk of their annual income on young players who are just going to end up at Leeds, Warrington, Salford, Leigh, Hull etc.

Hard to disagree with that, really, and this is the ‘problem’ we have at Bradford. For the past few years we’ve seen all our best Academy products picked off by SL teams one-by-one

It’s hard to blame the players as the ambition has to be to play at the top level - but if it isn’t going to be with the Bulls, why are we putting in all the work, effort and money?

[doc]

No reserves, no academy, no season. I am definitely getting hammered this Christmas!