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League Restructure Thread (Merged Threads)


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10 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

 Changing structures... again... and again... and again. Yet the changes never make the game more attractive. Why is that?

Because fundamentally nothing changes. It's rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic type stuff.

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14 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

 Changing structures... again... and again... and again. Yet the changes never make the game more attractive. Why is that?

One could argue because the fundemental problem is not able to keep some of the best players the league produces - the salary cap being an issue.  That salary cap because limited money in the sport.

So the starting point surely has to be how to keep more of the better players, which means more money, that can only be achieved by limiting the number of clubs that share the TV money... until some clubs are able to generate more revenue (say using Leeds as an example).

So where does the sport here start...

I note that the commentary has been around one proposal when the article says other proposals were made.

On this forum you would never get a consensus, just like to accuse the clubs of, we have self interest in the teams we support, we have different opinions...

It does amuse me seeing the accusations when its exactly what many do in their comments.

At the end of the day we have to strip back and identify the core issue... that means in my mind to make radical change more money has to go to less clubs as a starting point. With the aim that it acts as a catalyst to grow the sport here to fund all and sundry what people suggest we should be doing.

Edited by redjonn
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11 minutes ago, Damien said:

Because fundamentally nothing changes. It's rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic type stuff.

As the structure is not the issue. It's standards. As RedJohn puts it; not enough quality players. But players for me isn't the sole standards issue. It's the quality of some of the clubs... how they are structured. How their businesses run. How they are funded. Their aspirations. Their links to the community game etc etc. For me, the fundamental issue is driving for up standards; and holding those who don't meet their standards to account. 

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1 hour ago, NW10LDN said:

All 3 Cumbria clubs potentially gone under that plan. So much for caring about the game in the North.

Or the south, not sure London would make the 20 based on on field performance

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2 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

As the structure is not the issue. It's standards. As RedJohn puts it; not enough quality players. But players for me isn't the sole standards issue. It's the quality of some of the clubs... how they are structured. How their businesses run. How they are funded. Their aspirations. Their links to the community game etc etc. For me, the fundamental issue is driving for up standards; and holding those who don't meet their standards to account. 

Standards is a big one and I mean standards in every aspect of the top flight game. From a club point of view things like academies, reserve teams, minimum spends, social media, websites, never mind the ground aspects. The list goes on. Also standards in the running of the game and getting the message out there online. Even things like refereeing and little things like playing the ball correctly. There is just so much about the game that is downright shoddy and unprofessional for a sport getting circa £30 million a year from Sky.

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58 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Are you proposing Huddersfield (and Wigan) get kicked out of SL because they have to play in big grounds, and replace them with York and Batley? 

No expanding to 14 so we can grow the pie and whoever pays for the sport can show full houses. 

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1 hour ago, Barley Mow said:

Not gone, but with little or no central funding in a 16 team league 1 below the 2 tier super league as I understand it. 

I read it that way as well.

It seems that the top 20 will share the pot more evenly than as now.

League 1 ( still Tier 3 ) is likely to get nothing. But they've known about that for at least 2 years and have hopefully been planning their futures.

16 clubs will have to rely on their own resources to fund  a 34 game league season ( unless they adopt a ladder system ) pay wages where they can and travel the length of the country. Tough ask for some.

The Community game has thus far not been consulted on helping out despite those comments about a 'whole game approach '.

The NCL  club requirements are alien  to  and frankly beyond most of Tier 3. However  I expect that the Southern Conference like the NCL  also Tier 4 but crucially owned by the RFL and more in tune with those League 1 clubs likely to struggle, could accommodate.....and become stronger for it.

My glass is still just about half full rather than half empty......

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38 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

20 league games max with a ten team league would be absolutely perfect. Anything more is overkill and harms the international game. 

Some hard choices needed and some clubs simply need cutting. 

How about 12 teams play each other twice and Magic Weekend? Frees up time for Internationals. Now if only we had a 12 team SL..............

Like poor jokes? Thejoketeller@mullymessiah

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8 minutes ago, del capo said:

I read it that way as well.

It seems that the top 20 will share the pot more evenly than as now.

League 1 ( still Tier 3 ) is likely to get nothing. But they've known about that for at least 2 years and have hopefully been planning their futures.

16 clubs will have to rely on their own resources to fund  a 34 game league season ( unless they adopt a ladder system ) pay wages where they can and travel the length of the country. Tough ask for some.

The Community game has thus far not been consulted on helping out despite those comments about a 'whole game approach '.

The NCL  club requirements are alien  to  and frankly beyond most of Tier 3. However  I expect that the Southern Conference like the NCL  also Tier 4 but crucially owned by the RFL and more in tune with those League 1 clubs likely to struggle, could accommodate.....and become stronger for it.

My glass is still just about half full rather than half empty......

Typo . Sorry. Should read 30 league games....

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13 minutes ago, gittinsfan said:

If any of Widnes Bradford York Newcastle London or Halifax don't make top 6 in 2022.Do you really think they will be condemned to tier 3.

Dream on.

I presume you have already promoted Toulouse and Fev. to the 14 so yes. If those six can't make the top six of what's left they don't deserve to be there.

No detail of P and R yet. I hope it's 2 up 2 down throughout. So if  any miss out they should be certs for 2023..

You say ' dream on '. The voting structure at the RFL Council is such that if SL and enough Championship clubs want it , it will pass.

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12 minutes ago, del capo said:

I presume you have already promoted Toulouse and Fev. to the 14 so yes. If those six can't make the top six of what's left they don't deserve to be there.

No detail of P and R yet. I hope it's 2 up 2 down throughout. So if  any miss out they should be certs for 2023..

You say ' dream on '. The voting structure at the RFL Council is such that if SL and enough Championship clubs want it , it will pass.

A lot of people were tipping York and Newcastle for top 6 this year.

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Massive gamble IMO , doesn't solve the issues , in fact I don't think any structure will , we need all our clubs to learn how to make more income individually and collectively , we need to somehow create an International structure , without it would seem the Aussie's and Kiwi's , that is where the big money will come from , club wise it won't happen 

Club RL in this country is survival , growth can only come from the International game 

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I'm not in favour of anything that would lead to a 2x10 league system, this is just another bad idea designed to keep the same few clubs afloat and deal with the ever decreasing TV money received from Sky which is the result of poor management. It doesn't address the core issues that RL faces in the UK which is largely:

- The lack of national profile of RL, it's clubs and it's competitions, small profile of the England team and international scene

This is the definition of small time thinking as if the only thing that matters is giving clubs that are mismanaged a continual lifeline. A large part of the problem is that most SL clubs are too dependent solely on TV money and have no additional, alternative means of income.

This sounds harsh but we should be proceeding with a 12 team league with the medium term aim of increasing to 14 teams for the long term, any club that cannot survive on those terms should be allowed to perish or be demoted. A licensing process will allow for a process of scrutinising each potential SL club to assess whether their business is sustainable in an environment where there is reduced SKY money. 

That means, instead of changing the league system to suit clubs struggling to maintain professionalism and their SL place we need to flip the script and only permit clubs across the leagues to play in SL that have a robust, durable and sustainable business that can survive in the current harsher conditions. If that means they are demoted from SL so be it, we're leveling down the broader vision of SL to suit weak clubs and the only result of this will be a return to this same discussion again as I said will happen when the 8s were introduced, only next time around the pie will be much smaller. The clubs and RFL are not learning the lessons that need to be learnt. This is a bad idea, it gets a thumbs down from me. 

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24 minutes ago, Rugbyleaguesupporter said:

10 team SL would surely be play each other team 3 times- 13H, 13A and magic. 

SL2 would be 13H, 13A and Bash or less games so 9H, 9A and a few loop. 

League 1 would be 20 games tops- clubs can't afford many more 

and that's another negative of a league of ten.... more loop fixtures. Are these club chairmen not listening to what people are saying? Do they not see what is happening? This whole restructure is purely about their own clubs survival and not the good of the game. 

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Coming into this thread late,I see that 2 division Super League of 10 clubs has been talked about rather as I thought.

My questions are what is the criteria going to be for which clubs go into which division?

 And if we are going down this route then what happens to the clubs that don’t make the final cut?

 

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No benefit to a 10 team league. At least you get 22 games with a 12 team league. Decent season for all clubs. Keep it at 12 and put strict requirements on clubs. Academies, long term growth plans, etc. This will hurt the Broncos but the game has no hope in the capital when most of the city has no community clubs.

 

Put it this way. Gaelic football, a sport played only by Irish, has more underage clubs in London than rugby league.

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Broadcasters have barely shown any interest in the second tier over the years and changing the name to SL2 isn’t going to change that and it isn’t going to make clubs see it as a worthwhile competition in its own right.

Dropping to 10 teams looks yet again to me to show a complete lack of vision and ambition to grow Super League. I know that the lack of money in the game is a barrier but it looks to me like they are not even trying and if they go to 10 teams I doubt there will ever be any appetite to go back to 12.

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So, essentially the proposal is that to deal with the reduced TV income the money (not to mention players, sponsors, investors, etc) we do generate will be spread around 20 teams instead of 12? And that's supposed to be an intelligent use of greatly reduced resources?

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"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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3 hours ago, Liverpool Rover said:

Broadcasters have barely shown any interest in the second tier over the years and changing the name to SL2 isn’t going to change that and it isn’t going to make clubs see it as a worthwhile competition in its own right.

Dropping to 10 teams looks yet again to me to show a complete lack of vision and ambition to grow Super League. I know that the lack of money in the game is a barrier but it looks to me like they are not even trying and if they go to 10 teams I doubt there will ever be any appetite to go back to 12.

No-one has never paid a penny for the broadcast rights for tier 2 RL going right the way back to the old Northern Ford Premiership reverting to a winter season in the late 90s. They were ignored for years, then Sky took them at a cost basis, followed by Premier Sports, then back to Sky again. They're worthless, always have been always will be.

Honestly, the broadcast rights for our flagship competition have just fallen by 25% so why anybody in their right mind thinks tier 2 RL is worth anything is beyond me.

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"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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  • John Drake changed the title to League Restructure Thread (Merged Threads)

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