NRL a league of its own

[DavidM]

22 hours ago, Just Browny said:

From what I could tell this morning they are certainly in a league of their own for dreadful haircuts.

Ain’t that the truth . They may lead the world in some things but certainly not hairdressers . Some real council jobs knocking about 

[unapologetic pedant]

5 hours ago, Dave T said:

These PTB's are a feature of the modern game because players are always looking to get quicker PTB's and the authorities on both sides of the world haven't been bothered about it. The NRL may have now taken a different approach and decided to go for the touch with the foot, but this hasn't always been the case. 

The NRL have not "now taken a different approach". Round 1 is a red herring. As you say, we`ve always had crackdowns applied to selected parts of the rulebook everywhere.

This is a much deeper shift, where in the UK the Touch Football rollball has replaced the PTB as the standard method of bringing the ball into play. It`s closer to the decision of the NSWRL to adopt Northern Union rules than any ephemeral early season reminder to players of their responsibilities at the ruck.

In the past 4 or 5 years, have you seriously not been able to discern a sharp difference between the UK on one side and Australia/New Zealand/France/PNG on the other?

[Dave T]

28 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The NRL have not "now taken a different approach". Round 1 is a red herring. As you say, we`ve always had crackdowns applied to selected parts of the rulebook everywhere.

This is a much deeper shift, where in the UK the Touch Football rollball has replaced the PTB as the standard method of bringing the ball into play. It`s closer to the decision of the NSWRL to adopt Northern Union rules than any ephemeral early season reminder to players of their responsibilities at the ruck.

In the past 4 or 5 years, have you seriously not been able to discern a sharp difference between the UK on one side and Australia/New Zealand/France/PNG on the other?

Conversations about incorrect play the balls have been going on for at least the last 10 to 15 years now, and tbh, for most viewers I suggest they don't recognise any difference when watching a game, until we get a ref's call on it. 

I understand people not liking the approach, but it certainly isn't a big thing tahdjt fundamentally changes anything. There is no controversy when it comes to test matches or world club games or anything. 

[Dave T]

I'm loathe to use this reference as I don't like Moley but... 

 

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I'm loathe to use this reference as I don't like Moley but... 

 

That's the thing though. There wasn't.

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

That's the thing though. There wasn't.

Well people clearly think differently on this. In Oz there are people who feel the PTB is an issue just as people here feel there is an issue. 

But happy to disagree, and I'm certainly not gonna spend too much time arguing moleys point for him!

[unapologetic pedant]

4 hours ago, Dave T said:

and tbh, for most viewers I suggest they don't recognise any difference when watching a game, until we get a ref's call on it. 

People might not "recognize any difference, until we get a ref`s call on it" within a UK game, or within an Australian game. But between a UK game and an Australian game, the contrast is palpable to anyone with average eyesight.

 

4 hours ago, Dave T said:

There is no controversy when it comes to test matches or world club games or anything. 

When England play Samoa later this year, the rule will either be "make a genuine attempt to make contact with the foot" or merely "maintain balance and control".

If the former, and an Aussie or Kiwi ref apply the rule as they would in their domestic competitions, Samoa will be playing sets of six, England will be playing sets of one. It`s a controversy waiting to happen.

[unapologetic pedant]

19 hours ago, Dunbar said:

 The play the ball in Australia is far far closer to what it has been in the game for decades and Australia have clamped down on it to ensure that integrity. 

The UK game has given up on it. 

 

19 hours ago, Dunbar said:

While over in the NRL they are adjudicating turn overs for incorrect play the balls when players don't attempt to make contact with the foot.

There`s an additional depressing aspect to this matter. @Dave T is right that flagrantly illegal English PTBs haven`t hitherto generated major dispute. In my view, this is a sad reflection of two things. Firstly, the absence of any credible global body responsible for RL and its rulebook. And secondly, the indifference of Australians to the game outside Oz.

There have certainly been instances in the past few years in which Aussie refs have declined to enforce the rules against English players as they would in the NRL. It`s possible the RFL have forestalled the descent of these fixtures into acrimonious chaos by securing an exemption for their incompetent players pre-game.

Whether prompted or otherwise, the Aussie attitude appears to be that if we are satisfied with the degeneration of our ruck, that`s our problem. They don`t care, because they don`t care about the game in the UK. And Aussie refs allow English players to use a rollball in internationals, because Aussies don`t care about internationals. As long as the integrity of the PTB is protected in Oz, that`s what matters to them.

[bobbruce]

16 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

 

There`s an additional depressing aspect to this matter. @Dave T is right that flagrantly illegal English PTBs haven`t hitherto generated major dispute. In my view, this is a sad reflection of two things. Firstly, the absence of any credible global body responsible for RL and its rulebook. And secondly, the indifference of Australians to the game outside Oz.

There have certainly been instances in the past few years in which Aussie refs have declined to enforce the rules against English players as they would in the NRL. It`s possible the RFL have forestalled the descent of these fixtures into acrimonious chaos by securing an exemption for their incompetent players pre-game.

Whether prompted or otherwise, the Aussie attitude appears to be that if we are satisfied with the degeneration of our ruck, that`s our problem. They don`t care, because they don`t care about the game in the UK. And Aussie refs allow English players to use a rollball in internationals, because Aussies don`t care about internationals. As long as the integrity of the PTB is protected in Oz, that`s what matters to them.

There are also international rules so maybe the SL interpretation of the ptb is still the one used for internationals. 

[The Rocket]

I thought it was great to see the crackdown on the roll-ball this weekend, allowing this sort of thing to creep into the game is the thin edge of the wedge. Plus it just looks bloody awful and it takes about 2 seconds to do it properly.

Whatever they are doing, its` working.

Round one of the 2022 NRL season has proven to be a ratings blockbuster for Foxtel and Kayo, with a record number of footy fans watching the action.

 Tigers v Storm game was #1 NRL regular season game of all-time on subscription television with an average audience of 547K. 

Overall, Round 1 of the new 2022 season was the highest performing regular season NRL Round of all-time for the Foxtel Group with an average result of 436K nationally.

This figure was up +15% on corresponding 2021 R1 (378K), and was up +8% on previous highest rating regular NRL season (R25 2021, 406K)

Fox Sports Executive Director Steve Crawley celebrate the record result telling TV Blackbox:

“What a great game, Rugby League. We have just come off the most successful season ever and we’re already seeing even greater numbers and records. Season 2022 – can’t wait.”

 

[The Rocket]

On 13/03/2022 at 04:39, Eddie said:

Exactly, with Aussie Rules making inroads into RL territory, and the NRL’s reluctance to combat it, they may soon find out what it’s like not to be top dogs on their own turf. 

10 years ago NRL revenue was 40% of the afl`s, last year it was 77%. Afl dominated the Tv ratings across the country for 6 years up to 2019 when League overtook it, each year since League has pulled further ahead, 15 million more views last year and we didn`t have an NRLW last year and neither was our pre-season telecast. I expect that figure to hit 20 million with the introduction of the 17th team and the inclusion of NRLW and the pre-season in our figures.

The battle with afl will be won through eyeballs watching viewing platforms and the dollars they generate. League over here seems to be finally monetising what every body always knew, it`s a great game and a great game to watch on  rectangular screens. So **** the afl, we`re going to kick their *****.

Edited March 14, 2022 by The Rocket

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, The Rocket said:

I thought it was great to see the crackdown on the roll-ball this weekend, allowing this sort of thing to creep into the game is the thin edge of the wedge.

 

 

This is exactly my point - there has been a crackdown, because the NRL has been as slack on this, which I am getting challenged on and being told that the NRL players play it right and SL doesn't. My view is that there has absolutely been a crackdown in the NRL, and there is only one reason we have crackdowns - because something is an issue.

My personal stance on this is that it doesn't materially affect the game. A problem with the ptb is that if we are overly pedantic we end up in a place where referees are trying to police something that involves millimetres from a distance of 10 to 20 metres. That's why I think the RFL interpretation is a reasonable approach to take - as long as the PTB is controlled and the actions required have gone through, the pressure won't be put on the referee to judge whether a stud has skimmed the ball or not. We've seen it before where a ref pings a player and then he gets stick on the replays because it is a PTB that is like many others, or the player has actually played it, or missed my a millimetre. The link I shared from Moley does exactly that. 

Out of interest I looked at two games' highlights vids online - the Hudds game and the NQ Cowboys game, and whilst they only showed the tries, there really was no discernible difference imho - I think it is one of those things that if you pay attention to it you will notice it and get annoyed (a little like if you focus on the wide defenders straying a yard or two offside then it becomes a big issue) - but for me the foot element of the PTB just looked the same (and one of the main reasons for that is that the cameras actually zoom out as the ball is played).

The bigger issue at the PTB for me is the player not being stood up correctly, just throwing it back like NFL, or making no attempt at all - and the RFL rules will catch all of these things. 

In reality, we all have these mall things that bug us about the game, I hate the lack of referee signals, but sometimes we need to accept that not everyone cares about the things we do and our solution isn't always the best route.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

I love Super League as much as the next man, unless I’m sat next to Dutoni, but there’s no doubt the quality of sport on offer in the NRL is a level above.
 

The whole weekend was great, well, apart from my mighty Sea Eagles doing their usual “let’s start our season in May” thing but hey ho you can’t have it all 

[Pigeon Lofter]

21 hours ago, Dave T said:

In reality, it's not that big a deal. 

It will be at the RLWC when England get penalised into oblivion because few if any of the SL based players correctly execute a legal PTB when every other visiting nation does it correctly.

[Damien]

Going back to the original post it is great to see some big crowds in the NRL. I do recall big opening crowds in previous season but the difficulty the NRL always seems to have is sustaining these, particularly around SOO time. Brisbane also have traditionally averaged over 30k many a season so its more a return to the norm rather than anything special.

There is little doubt that the NRL is a great competition and gets an awful lot right. It is the premier rugby competition bar none. Matches are high quality and it is a rather slick product all the way through. The presentation of the game on TV is largely great too and it comes across very well. I always see a lot of the NFL in what the NRL does and that isn't a bad thing when it comes to presentation.

I dont really want to get involved in yet another PTB argument on another thread but they do get the little things right like this in my opinion when it comes to the rules. I dont see it as being pedantic, it just makes for a better game. That said they do get some things badly wrong and are all too quick to change the rules for TV and to hell with the consequences. For balance Super League is also guilty here too as well.

I think we all know that money and media coverage are the two big differences between the game here and the game in Australia. Every club would need an additional several million and the game blanket media coverage, rather than a snippet here and there, before SL genuinely gets close to what the NRL has.

[redjonn]

9 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

People might not "recognize any difference, until we get a ref`s call on it" within a UK game, or within an Australian game. But between a UK game and an Australian game, the contrast is palpable to anyone with average eyesight.

 

When England play Samoa later this year, the rule will either be "make a genuine attempt to make contact with the foot" or merely "maintain balance and control".

If the former, and an Aussie or Kiwi ref apply the rule as they would in their domestic competitions, Samoa will be playing sets of six, England will be playing sets of one. It`s a controversy waiting to happen.

Although international rules say the ball must be heeled (hell or sole of foot).

it doesn't say make a genuine attempt, that is an allowed interpretation by the national body surely and hence subjective of the refs surely.

My point being unless you actually heel the ball having lifted the ball clear of the ground of course you are not doing the PTB correctly.

I am not saying its not ok to be seen to be making an attempt but if the ball isn't heeled it is not observing the rules and hence an interpretation, just like in the UK have an interpretation.

For the world cup the interpretation will be an agreed one... or we stick to the international rules and the ball has to be touched - that is not just attempted.

[Eddie]

51 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

10 years ago NRL revenue was 40% of the afl`s, last year it was 77%. Afl dominated the Tv ratings across the country for 6 years up to 2019 when League overtook it, each year since League has pulled further ahead, 15 million more views last year and we didn`t have an NRLW last year and neither was our pre-season telecast. I expect that figure to hit 20 million with the introduction of the 17th team and the inclusion of NRLW and the pre-season in our figures.

The battle with afl will be won through eyeballs watching viewing platforms and the dollars they generate. League over here seems to be finally monetising what every body always knew, it`s a great game and a great game to watch on  rectangular screens. So **** the afl, we`re going to kick their *****.

That’s good to hear, must admit I’d heard that AFL was becoming more popular in Sydney and Brisbane. I’d love to see a Perth NRL team and maybe even one in Adelaide. 

[The Rocket]

5 minutes ago, Eddie said:

That’s good to hear, must admit I’d heard that AFL was becoming more popular in Sydney and Brisbane. I’d love to see a Perth NRL team and maybe even one in Adelaide. 

I don`t want to derail this thread with my obsessions but I view the afl a little bit like the soccer is over here, some parents might let their kiddies play it, it`s safer, but they`ll still follow the League. And not necessarily vice-versa. The promotion and popularity of Touch and Tag Rugby League is also allowing us to engage those who don`t want to play the tackle version ( or aren`t ready for it ) and keep them as NRL or NRLW fans. I think we really have to push Touch and Tag RL into the schools, it`s a great way to get fit, it`s fun and no one gets hurt, I think it would be a great school sport. And not to mention a lot of League fans will still have a very low opinion of afl and I think a lot of afl fans have a sneaking admiration for Rugby League and respect for its` participants.

As Phil Gould said the other day afl seems to have found a niche in the League states but it doesn`t really get a lot of media and people aren`t talking about it.  Personally I think the big battle will play out on the viewing platforms and at the moment League is powering ahead.

[bobbruce]

1 hour ago, redjonn said:

Although international rules say the ball must be heeled (hell or sole of foot).

it doesn't say make a genuine attempt, that is an allowed interpretation by the national body surely and hence subjective of the refs surely.

My point being unless you actually heel the ball having lifted the ball clear of the ground of course you are not doing the PTB correctly.

I am not saying its not ok to be seen to be making an attempt but if the ball isn't heeled it is not observing the rules and hence an interpretation, just like in the UK have an interpretation.

For the world cup the interpretation will be an agreed one... or we stick to the international rules and the ball has to be touched - that is not just attempted.

This is the issue I have with it. We tell the defending team they can go when the tackled player plays the ball with his foot. We then allow the tackled player to not play it with their foot so when can the defenders move. 

[Just Browny]

17 hours ago, DavidM said:

Ain’t that the truth . They may lead the world in some things but certainly not hairdressers . Some real council jobs knocking about 

Jackson Hastings went from worst haircut in the field in Super League to the best turned out player on the park.

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

This is exactly my point - there has been a crackdown, because the NRL has been as slack on this, which I am getting challenged on and being told that the NRL players play it right and SL doesn't. My view is that there has absolutely been a crackdown in the NRL, and there is only one reason we have crackdowns - because something is an issue.

Around 2015/16 is when the NRL were drifting towards an acceptance of the rollball. That`s when they made the decision to crack down and restore the integrity of the PTB. We didn`t do that, only making half-hearted short-lived efforts to enforce the rules. Since then we`ve diverged ever more conspicuously from the rest of the world. The rollball has now been fully integrated into UK RL.

Watch any SL training session - the players use a rollball.

Watch any NRL training session - the players use a PTB.

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

 the pressure won't be put on the referee to judge whether a stud has skimmed the ball or not. 

That is precisely why the "genuine attempt" criterion was introduced. It`s an intelligent application of the "benefit of the doubt" principle and has managed to maintain the structure of the PTB in every RL nation bar the UK. Which speaks volumes for our administrators, coaches, players, and media.

 

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

The bigger issue at the PTB for me is the player not being stood up correctly, just throwing it back like NFL 

These problems are more likely with the rollball.

Implementing the requirement to make a genuine attempt to play the ball facilitates compliance with all other criteria. The tackled player plants the ball and owns the space. Which establishes more clearly where the mark is. Which in turn establishes where the markers should be and when they can move. By contrast, just rolling the ball and hopping over it leads to RU-style mess.

If ruck speed is all the RFL are interested in, the next logical step would be to let the tackled player remain on the ground and hand the ball up to the dummy-half. 

[Dunbar]

Here are a few of the reasons why I really enjoy the NRL.  Some are in contrast to the UK game but this doesn't mean I dislike the UK game so I am not saying one is superior to the other... there are a few things I could list about the UK game that is superior but this is an NRL thread.

1. The aforementioned play the ball.  It is far better in the NRL and I believe that this matters as it is such an integral part of the game.

2. Players run onto the fiend in jersey's 1 to 13.  When I am watching a game where I may not recognize every player, I really want to know where each player is playing based on his number.  I want to see which players are doing well and which are outperforming their opponents.   As I have said many times, I am not sure how we expect newcomers to see the tactical parts to the game when players are wearing squad numbers and so they don't necessarily know what position they are playing... all just for the sake of selling a few shirts with a players name on the back!

3. I love to see Brits test themselves in the NRL.  Going back to the 80's when Hanley, Schofield and Davies were lighting up the comp through to the modern greats such as Graham and Burgess, it is fantastic to see the UK players doing well over there.  And if there is a Brit in a game, I enjoy it all the more.

4. Despite no relegation, every game matters.  The intensity week in week out in the NRL is first class and every game seems to have this - even those where the play off's may be out of sight or even in the play off's where there is a second chance.  They don't look for reasons not to give 100%

5. It is super competitive.  Teams can literally go from bottom to top in a few seasons.

[unapologetic pedant]

2 hours ago, bobbruce said:

This is the issue I have with it. We tell the defending team they can go when the tackled player plays the ball with his foot. We then allow the tackled player to not play it with their foot so when can the defenders move. 

Some posters think discrepancies at the PTB between English and overseas teams are immaterial since the casual observer won`t notice them. But most casual observers don`t notice RL at all. Those who do will have long assumed it`s a simple game for simple people devoid of anything technical or sophisticated.

Don`t we want this to change? i.e. do we not want more people to pay more attention to RL? And in this country, if they look and listen more closely, what will they see and hear?

Despite some of the fools who traditionally occupy positions of power and influence in our game, I try to avoid depictions like "farce" or "laughing stock", but on this topic I`ll make an exception. -

When an English RL ref shouts "wait for the foot", then a bloke chucks the ball between his legs and on we go, UK RL is openly inviting ridicule.

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

Here are a few of the reasons why I really enjoy the NRL.  Some are in contrast to the UK game but this doesn't mean I dislike the UK game so I am not saying one is superior to the other... there are a few things I could list about the UK game that is superior but this is an NRL thread.

Like many, I have a love/hate relationship with RL in the UK. Officially, I`ve given up on the men`s game here.

Notwithstanding, I couldn`t resist checking out the opening minutes of Barrow v Workington on the BBC red button on Sunday. And ended up watching the whole game, and thoroughly enjoying it. Despite all the chuckballs and rollballs.

[Cheadle Leyther]

On 12/03/2022 at 17:48, Mr Frisky said:

Great crowd, but its Brisbane, the biggest club in the world in their first game of the season so just hope they can get those crowds next season when the 2nd Brisbane club starts.

I wonder if an NRL fan forum said the same about SL 3 years ago when Cats got a crowd of 31 500?

Saints got 16,000 the other night so it will be intresting to see how that compairs against the rest of the NRL opening attendances- top 5 or will ever NRL crowd be a lot bigger? - after all we all know on here- NRL = amazing - SL = Bad...

15,224 Canberra, 14,182 Roosters, 5,382 Warriors 10,025 West’s, 18,211 Eels and 12,640 Cowboys. So only Eels and Broncos (32,002) beat the Saints crowd.