The potential of RL in York and North Yorkshire

[Hopping Mad]

7 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Yes, Guisborough, Great Ayton, Stokesley and the other towns along the North end of the Moors really don't look to York as their significant city. It isn't so much the distance, it's the indirectness of the route.

It's cultural, too. All the towns and villages in the northern part of North Yorkshire, including the coast, associate strongly with Middlesbrough and Teesside. As a former Great Ayton resident, who worked in Middlesbrough (an outsider looking in), I can say York simply does not figure in the consciousness of what you might call 'south Teessiders' (although, in recent years, the city's appeal as a hen/stag destination has grown).

Edited July 16, 2022 by Hopping Mad

[RBKnight]

30 minutes ago, Hopping Mad said:

I can say York simply does not figure in the consciousness of what you might call 'south Teessiders' (although, in recent years, the city's appeal as a hen/stag destination has grown).

Police estimate from five years ago (and it's hardly abated) was around 5,000 Smoggies descending on York to get absolutely rat-arsed every Saturday ..... you'd think there wasn't a single pub in Teeside !

[RBKnight]

On 15/07/2022 at 11:18, gingerjon said:

Virtually all of the RFL's allocations - in all possible guises - goes to the heartlands.

That the heartlands are in a bad way (if they are) is really not the fault of any outside them.

I certainly don't blame them - but it doesn't auger well for the future of the game that in areas of the country with the greatest awareness and junior participation in rugby league, its professional clubs are so impoverished.

 

[JonM]

3 hours ago, Hopping Mad said:

 the city's appeal as a hen/stag destination has grown

We had the teenage son of a friend visiting York Uni last weekend.  Met him at the station at 9:30 Saturday morning and walked over to the Minster, which is maybe a 10 minute walk. I counted over 20 hen parties in that time. Dread to think what it's like in the evening.

[RBKnight]

20 hours ago, JonM said:

 I counted over 20 hen parties in that time. Dread to think what it's like in the evening.

Surprisingly "lively" for a beautiful historic city 

[Yorks Tim]

Does anyone remember / know what the crowd numbers were in the late 70's at Clarence Street / Wiggy Road?

My memory isn't to be trusted but I would guess something like 1,500, depending on visitors. 

Has the York club been any more 'successful' either before or after that period until the current incarnation?

[georgeb1]

15 hours ago, Yorks Tim said:

Does anyone remember / know what the crowd numbers were in the late 70's at Clarence Street / Wiggy Road?

My memory isn't to be trusted but I would guess something like 1,500, depending on visitors. 

Has the York club been any more 'successful' either before or after that period until the current incarnation?

Crowds were higher then , particularly early 80,s when the club invested heavily in  Aussies , attendance's were regularly 5000 + , but admittedly RL was much better supported at most clubs then.

[RBKnight]

On 15/07/2022 at 14:38, JonM said:

 It does have the advantage of being relatively well off. Unlike many RL towns, it's also a place where young people move to, rather than away from, and obviously a lot of tourism too.

A very good point, and I think it means that the value and range of sponsors the club can pull in is correspondingly larger as well. As an "events" city, you have to shout very loud to make yourself heard (hence the very good media operation the club runs), but correspondingly, it means there's a range of businesses that are only to happy to associate themselves with the relentlessly positive image the club has sought to project.

York St Johns University are the Knights' lead sponsor - I won't be the only fan who hopes a scholarship-type arrangement is developed to both keep our young local players, and attract those talented players emerging out of academies who aren't immediately getting f/t contracts

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by RBKnight
grammar

[steve oates]

On 16/07/2022 at 18:38, Hopping Mad said:

Average crowd for Scarborough's sole season was 750+, IIRC (777 sticks in my mind). Pirates had one or two crowds over 1,000, but interest waned pretty quickly. Hardly anybody watched their last few games.

Exactly, The OP and Mark Evans are in dreamland.

York itself has such a long history with Rugby League that they will get the crowds but to try to argue that York will attract fans in numbers a long way northward because some Aussie says so, fails to take into account the traditions and history of the three codes of Football in this country.  Turn it on it's head and if Wakefield were winning everything would the fans be flooding north from Sheffield, Rotherham and Doncaster to watch them?

I think not and the OP certainly should know better if he/she was serious........

[Usera]

17 hours ago, Yorks Tim said:

Does anyone remember / know what the crowd numbers were in the late 70's at Clarence Street / Wiggy Road?

My memory isn't to be trusted but I would guess something like 1,500, depending on visitors. 

Has the York club been any more 'successful' either before or after that period until the current incarnation?

When York won the Second Division in 1981, the average attendance was around  3,900. Their biggest crowd was against Fulham (7,300). Curiously, they were the third best supported team in the League that year with Fulham and relegated Wigan getting bigger crowds. 

They played Hull KR away in the cup second round with nearly 14,000 at Craven Park.

 

Second Division 1980/81 York

[JonM]

22 minutes ago, Usera said:

When York won the Second Division in 1981, the average attendance was around  3,900. Their biggest crowd was against Fulham (7,300). Curiously, they were the third best supported team in the League that year with Fulham and relegated Wigan getting bigger crowds. 

They played Hull KR away in the cup second round with nearly 14,000 at Craven Park.

 

Second Division 1980/81 York

In hindsight, that season was pretty much the high water point of RL crowds at many clubs - much higher than the 1970s and also higher than the years that followed.

York averaged 3475 in 1976-77 in the second division, better than seven of the first division clubs. Hull FC averaged 3860 as winners of division 2, while Featherstone Rovers averaged 3307 as division 1 winners. Only Widnes and Salford averaged over 5000 that season.

[RigbyLuger]

Employing Ben Cockayne seems an odd move. Not sure he'll attract the right sort of supporter.

[Agbrigg]

I go to York a couple of times a week and I dont know that many interested in RL. All those that are follow Leeds. If you live on the west side of the City or Tadcaster, Wetherby side, Thats certainly Leeds Rhino catchment area for RL fans. 

Selby to south also has a good Cas fan base

[RBKnight]

2 minutes ago, Agbrigg said:

I go to York a couple of times a week and I dont know that many interested in RL. All those that are follow Leeds. If you live on the west side of the City or Tadcaster, Wetherby side, Thats certainly Leeds Rhino catchment area for RL fans. 

Selby to south also has a good Cas fan base

I think that's a fair comment - it's those sorts of fans that York would like to bring to the club (and their kids) even if it's just initially a "second" club - there's a few RL supporters in York following the Hull clubs too.

[Stirlin]

25 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

Employing Ben Cockayne seems an odd move. Not sure he'll attract the right sort of supporter.

Here is your answer.....

https://yorkcityknights.com/club/cockayne-announced-as-new-assistant-coach/

[RigbyLuger]

1 minute ago, Stirlin said:

Here is your answer.....

https://yorkcityknights.com/club/cockayne-announced-as-new-assistant-coach/

"Numerous aspects of Ben's personality" include:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/rugby-star-in-pub-brawl-is-let-off-jail-733662.amp

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/ben-cockayne-leaves-hull-kr-5643226.amp

 

 

[Simon Hall]

24 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

Employing Ben Cockayne seems an odd move. Not sure he'll attract the right sort of supporter.

Don't know of many supporters who've started following a club based on who the assistant coach is or what mad stuff they do or don't put on the internet to be fair.

Not a fan of how Ben has conducted himself online with all that anti-vax stuff plus his other indiscretions but he seemed to be instrumental in the playing culture at the club that won us the league in 2018 and helped us finish 3rd in the Championship in 2019.

If he's working hard to improve the players and doing what he's told when at the club good luck to him. Not going to throw a potentially good coach under the bus cos his opinions don't align with mine that's for sure, unless he's a Tory obvs.

[Stirlin]

2 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

"Numerous aspects of Ben's personality" include:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/rugby-star-in-pub-brawl-is-let-off-jail-733662.amp

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/ben-cockayne-leaves-hull-kr-5643226.amp

 

 

and ? . Simon beat me to it.

[TheYoungBaron]

57 minutes ago, Agbrigg said:

I go to York a couple of times a week and I dont know that many interested in RL. All those that are follow Leeds. If you live on the west side of the City or Tadcaster, Wetherby side, Thats certainly Leeds Rhino catchment area for RL fans. 

Selby to south also has a good Cas fan base

There's also Fev Rovers fans in abundance too

[The Future is League]

On 15/07/2022 at 16:02, NW10LDN said:

2x10 is an awful idea. Sky don't want more loop fixtures. 12 is a good number for a Super League and then 12 for the second tier. 23 rounds including Magic or the Big Bash. The remaining 13 clubs can be in a unfunded third tier if that is what the RFL want.

A majority of fans don't want loop fixture's either

[The Future is League]

On 15/07/2022 at 15:58, NW10LDN said:

Greater Manchester would be those heartlands but plenty of areas in Manchester which are untouched by rugby league.

Perhaps another reason why Manchester Rangers should have been allowed into League 1.

 

[David Shepherd]

19 hours ago, JonM said:

In hindsight, that season was pretty much the high water point of RL crowds at many clubs - much higher than the 1970s and also higher than the years that followed.

York averaged 3475 in 1976-77 in the second division, better than seven of the first division clubs. Hull FC averaged 3860 as winners of division 2, while Featherstone Rovers averaged 3307 as division 1 winners. Only Widnes and Salford averaged over 5000 that season.

You're fairly safe in assuming that all those figures were manipulated.  Cash only in those days, lower crowd numbers means lower revenues means less VAT to pay.

Edited July 19, 2022 by David Shepherd

[gingerjon]

23 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

You're fairly safe in assuming that all those figures were manipulated.  Cash only in those days, lower crowd numbers means lower revenues means less VAT to pay.

You're also fairly safe in assuming that crowds really were low a lot of the time.

Because they were.

[Ackroman]

On 16/07/2022 at 18:59, Futtocks said:

Teesside University had a RL side for as while, but I think that's no longer a going concern.

Yarm Wolves have a very active youth set-up in the NE RL. I believe they may now have open age? They are in my opinion, the team to beat in the NE youth leagues.

[GUBRATS]

On 17/07/2022 at 20:40, Yorks Tim said:

Does anyone remember / know what the crowd numbers were in the late 70's at Clarence Street / Wiggy Road?

My memory isn't to be trusted but I would guess something like 1,500, depending on visitors. 

Has the York club been any more 'successful' either before or after that period until the current incarnation?

Not really