The Transfer Rumour Mill Thread

[Harry Stottle]

23 minutes ago, Fevrover said:

Harry some still won't have it and if you say anything you get laughed at. 

Lemmings and Cliffs come to mind.

[Click]

38 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Lemmings and Cliffs come to mind.

According to some of your posts and others posts in the last week - RL is dying or is pretty much dead already. No one outside the heartlands could ever be interested in it - So it sounds like the lemmings are already marching towards that cliff, whether IMG is there to throw the lemmings off, or they jump themselves.

[Pete Grady]

Lemmings jumping off cliffs was an entirely fictious story made up by Walt Disney, and that reminds me:

'Whats the differrence betweeen Bing Crosby and Walt Disney?'

'Bing sings, but Walt Disney'.

Have a nice day.

 

[sheddingswasus]

9 hours ago, Josef K said:

Is there no relegation from now on, i haven’t a clue what is going on. Do the RFL know!!. 

My thoughts too!

[DemonUK]

No relegation in the true sense of the word.  It is now called 'failure to meet required standards' as decided by an arbitrary awarding of points in categories that can be easily 'manipulated'.  For example - mysteriously missing attendance figures - from certain clubs, and I am sure some clubs will be better than others with their creative accounting.

[Damien]

15 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Not when we were ' locked out , we lost a 1000 fans down to under 2 K 

Yes from 2008 to 2009 (when licensing was introduced) Leigh's average crowds fell but only from 2,497 to 1,984.

There are a lot of variables at play though. It ignores that Leigh went from finishing 4th and in the play offs in 2008 to 9th and finishing 3rd from bottom in 2009. Indeed Leigh only avoided relegation due to Gateshead salary cap breaches.

It also ignores that Salford, who had provided Leigh a bumper crowd in 2008 of 3,708 and were one of the best attended clubs had been promoted after winning the Grand Final in 2008.

It also ignores the fact that Doncaster and Gateshead joined the league, who were easily the two worst attended clubs, and the fact that also Toulouse had joined who would have provided little travelling support.

It ignores that the league size increased from 10 to 11 and that Leigh had to play an extra game against a worse attended club which would bring down the average.

I'm not convinced that licensing is solely at fault for Leigh's crowds falling by 513 and am more inclined to think it was largely because of these other factors.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Damien

[Rovers13]

8 hours ago, Wolford6 said:

Sami Kibula is really good ... just needs to last longer minutes.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one tbh lol. I don’t like banging players so I won’t say his weaknesses which their are lots btw, but we will see if he gets a run of games at c@s which he might with what their bringing in. 

[Wolford6]

Has anyone posted about Reiss Butterworth going to Hull KR? He's a very underrated player. I could never understand why:

• he never made it at the Giants.
• why he was switched to hooker when he was an outstanding junior halfback for the Bulls Academy.

I'll own up to being biased; I used to play in the same Pennine League team as his Grandfather.

[Gates1]

5 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

Thanks guy's for confirming my predictions that we are moving away from an on field sporting contest with this IMG charade, if you happen to be in the relegation zone next season (but I have no pretence that you will be) I hope you enjoy those games that will be of very little consequence what the result is, going to be real exciting isn't it!

We are certainly moving away from on field relegation, that's clearly set out in the grading hand book in a transparent way - i dont think its posters on here confirming it!

Ultimately, on field performance only accounts for 25% of the grading (and superleague clubs start with 13.75% anyway).  All though a consequence of poor on field performance may be the effect other graded area's ie fandom and finance. 

To use Cas as an example 7k average attendances score you the same as 3k average attendances so losing points through attendances isnt going to happen - it's not a risk based on poor onfield performance (the goal will be to get into the 7.5k bracket). 

The Financial indicators are worth as much as the performance indicators, in essence the team finishint six only get 0.6 points more than the 10th placed team.  Comparably having a healthy balance book and turning a profit can earn you a 1 point!

So realistically a club like Cas are going to be initially prioritising:

- graded areas we are near the top of the range - can we get to the next bracket.

- graded areas we are near the bottom of the range - manage risk to avoid falling into the lower bracket.

Some of the things are intrinsically linked so there will be a fair bit of juggling and planning required.

I don't agree with approach, I personally preferred promotion and relegation but it's the decision and direction the game has taken.

Realistically all clubs, particularly those B grade clubs, will be making business decisions based on maximising criteria.  Especially as we approach the first round of licences.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Gates1

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Gates1 said:

We are certainly moving away from on field relegation, that's clearly set out in the grading hand book in a transparent way - i dont think its posters on here confirming it!

Ultimately, on field performance only accounts for 25% of the grading (and superleague clubs start with 13.75% anyway).  All though a consequence of poor on field performance may be the effect other graded area's ie fandom and finance. 

To use Cas as an example 7k average attendances score you the same as 3k average attendances so losing points through attendances isnt going to happen - it's not a risk based on poor onfield performance (the goal will be to get into the 7.5k bracket). 

The Financial indicators are worth as much as the performance indicators, in essence the team finishint six only get 0.6 points more than the 10th placed team.  Comparably having a healthy balance book and turning a profit can earn you a 1 point!

So realistically a club like Cas are going to be initially prioritising:

- graded areas we are near the top of the range - can we get to the next bracket.

- graded areas we are near the bottom of the range - manage risk to avoid falling into the lower bracket.

Some of the things are intrinsically linked so there will be a fair bit of juggling and planning required.

I don't agree with approach, I personally preferred promotion and relegation but it's the decision and direction the game has taken.

Realistically all clubs, particularly those B grade clubs, will be making business decisions based on maximising criteria.  Especially as we approach the first round of licences.

 

 

High Gates thank you for your considered response.

Do you think there will be any consequence attendance wise to what I term as 'games of no meaning'? As you point out it will matter little on IMG's points matrix, but it could mean a hell of a lot to a club if say a number of fans dropped off going, based on say an average spend for admittance and a drink or a bite to eat at £25/person that would be £25K/1000 people.

Is it feasible that a club such as yours if you are trading 'Team building for Buisness Decisions' and because of that consequently being at the bottom end of the league getting attendances of 5000 instead of 7000 that would be on my example £50,000 loss per home game, thoughts please.

[Harry Stottle]

4 hours ago, Damien said:

Yes from 2008 to 2009 (when licensing was introduced) Leigh's average crowds fell but only from 2,497 to 1,984.

There are a lot of variables at play though. It ignores that Leigh went from finishing 4th and in the play offs in 2008 to 9th and finishing 3rd from bottom in 2009. Indeed Leigh only avoided relegation due to Gateshead salary cap breaches.

It also ignores that Salford, who had provided Leigh a bumper crowd in 2008 of 3,708 and were one of the best attended clubs had been promoted after winning the Grand Final in 2008.

It also ignores the fact that Doncaster and Gateshead joined the league, who were easily the two worst attended clubs, and the fact that also Toulouse had joined who would have provided little travelling support.

It ignores that the league size increased from 10 to 11 and that Leigh had to play an extra game against a worse attended club which would bring down the average.

I'm not convinced that licensing is solely at fault for Leigh's crowds falling by 513 and am more inclined to think it was largely because of these other factors.

If those other factors and your reckoning are at play Damien, then are we to assume the 513 fall off was due to away fans not attending, and Leigh's attendance for home fans was the lower figure?

Edited October 20, 2023 by Harry Stottle

[Damien]

9 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If those other factors and your reckoning are at play Damien, then are we to assume the 513 fall off was due to away fans attending, and Leigh's attendance for home fans was the lower figure?

You can interpret the figures how you like and I am not asking you to assume anything.

I am simply presenting the fact that there were various other things at play, that are far more quantifiable, than just blaming it on licensing.

[Harry Stottle]

8 minutes ago, Damien said:

You can interpret the figures how you like and I am not asking you to assume anything.

I am simply presenting the fact that there were various other things at play, that are far more quantifiable, than just blaming it on licensing.

Fair enough, but I do expect that the Championship will see reduced attendances without on field P&R.

[Gav Wilson]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Fair enough, but I do expect that the Championship will see reduced attendances without on field P&R.

I predict that crowds will go up at the clubs that are winning regularly, and crowds will go down at clubs that are losing regularly.

But none of this has anything to do with rumoured transfer dealings...

[Rovers13]

 

[Catflap]

24 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

 

Things look to be shaping up well at Fev after their disasterous end to the season. Apparently Danny Addy will be added soon and then there's speculation that Hardaker wants to play for his favourite club  

[Rovers13]

18 minutes ago, Catflap said:

Things look to be shaping up well at Fev after their disasterous end to the season. Apparently Danny Addy will be added soon and then there's speculation that Hardaker wants to play for his favourite club  

Surely that can’t be true, thought we were in financial ruin and expecting tatties in our field

[EagleEyePie]

21 hours ago, Mark said:

He was full time at Warrington, Wigan and Newcastle, he reminds me of Lingard at United where people still talked about his potential then you realised he was in his late 20’s, Kibula played well for swinton in odd games but you always had the feeling it’s when he could be bothered 

To be fair he's 24, which is far too early to throw prop forwards on the scrap heap. A lot of props don't really hit their peak until around age 27 or 28. There have been countless props that were promising but took a long time to really reach the level expected.

Not saying Kibula will be making the Dream Team within a few years but there's definitely a lot of improvement that can take place during your mid-20's if you're a forward. Some of that improvement can be in attitude, as well as just learning your limitations and understanding how to get the best out of your abilities.

I do hope he can have some success at Cas. Despite his weaknesses at that age he was probably the most exciting player to watch during his time in Wigan's academy, though more for his ball playing ability than his carries.

[Catflap]

Just now, Rovers13 said:

Surely that can’t be true, thought we were in financial ruin and expecting tatties in our field

All the bitter green eyed monsters out there wish! Looks like The Game Caller will have to suffer losing to Fev once again

[GUBRATS]

7 hours ago, Damien said:

Yes from 2008 to 2009 (when licensing was introduced) Leigh's average crowds fell but only from 2,497 to 1,984.

There are a lot of variables at play though. It ignores that Leigh went from finishing 4th and in the play offs in 2008 to 9th and finishing 3rd from bottom in 2009. Indeed Leigh only avoided relegation due to Gateshead salary cap breaches.

It also ignores that Salford, who had provided Leigh a bumper crowd in 2008 of 3,708 and were one of the best attended clubs had been promoted after winning the Grand Final in 2008.

It also ignores the fact that Doncaster and Gateshead joined the league, who were easily the two worst attended clubs, and the fact that also Toulouse had joined who would have provided little travelling support.

It ignores that the league size increased from 10 to 11 and that Leigh had to play an extra game against a worse attended club which would bring down the average.

I'm not convinced that licensing is solely at fault for Leigh's crowds falling by 513 and am more inclined to think it was largely because of these other factors.

You are looking at the one season , I was still attending all Leigh's ome games in 2009 , and the relegation fight ( which I predicted with about 10 games to go ) actually galvanised the support base with us taking 6 coaches and around 600 fans to Gateshead for our relegation shoot out ( with about 4/5 games to go ) 

Try 4/5 years later ? , when I like many others were picking and choosing the bigger games at home and I was attending more away than home for a ' day out ' 

[Damien]

16 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

You are looking at the one season , I was still attending all Leigh's ome games in 2009 , and the relegation fight ( which I predicted with about 10 games to go ) actually galvanised the support base with us taking 6 coaches and around 600 fans to Gateshead for our relegation shoot out ( with about 4/5 games to go ) 

Try 4/5 years later ? , when I like many others were picking and choosing the bigger games at home and I was attending more away than home for a ' day out ' 

I compared the last year of p&r before licensing with the first year of licensing. The period when you said you lost 1000 fans.  I'm not sure why you'd want me to try 4/5 years later long after licensing had finished.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Damien

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

I compared the last year of p&r before licensing with the first year of licensing. The period when you said you lost 1000 fans.  I'm not sure why you'd want me to try 4/5 years later long after licensing had finished.

I said " when we were locked out " , that was 6 years , look at the figures for those 6 years 

[LeeF]

11 hours ago, ColD said:

And that of course makes a farce of the competition- not sure what makes Salford “safe” on the grading system, and Cas looking to put out a ###### poor team so they can throw money at the ground to try to get a tick in the box - a promise they made first time round with franchising and appear to have done very little ground wise since then

Or they are building firmer foundations for the future which is now encouraged and about time too

[robt]

3 hours ago, Gav Wilson said:

I predict that crowds will go up at the clubs that are winning regularly, and crowds will go down at clubs that are losing regularly.

But none of this has anything to do with rumoured transfer dealings...

Depends who we listen to though Gav.

[ColD]

1 hour ago, LeeF said:

Or they are building firmer foundations for the future which is now encouraged and about time too

Well it was encouraged and part of the last franchise criteria - new ground blah blah blah