Why RL in the UK struggles.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

51 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I think there's a difference here between the heartlands and the non-heartlands.

I'm located firmly in the latter and here the NRL is definitely something that rugby folk are aware of. At my community club, the point at which you know a player has fully bought in to RL is when they turn up to training in an NRL or Origin top - nobody appears newly kitted out in a Wigan shirt. The players and dads talk about the NRL way more than Super League - Reece Walsh is a name, Jack Welsby isn't. Even at the football club my son plays at, other dads ask me about the NRL when I bring up rugby league. SL is genuinely a non-topic and I imagine it's partly to do with the way that the NRL has managed to squeeze into more people's social media (a reason why we brought IMG in, presumably).

Further evidence: I want to buy some discounted NRL gear now that the season has finished. The places to buy online all seem to be RU shops that have an NRL section but not a SL section. I wonder why? (I don't wonder why).

It is likely very different in the heartlands but, as I say, NRL easily trumps SL for interest among 'rugby' people down South.

That's genuinely interesting how casually interested Southerners have gone more towards a comp on the other side of the planet than one in their own country. I spend my time pretty much divided between North Yorks and South Wales and both areas, whilst not heartlands, have plenty of people with a passing interest in RL. I honestly can't say a single one has mentioned the NRL to me beyond 'It's (RL) popular in Australia isn't it?' or the like. 

[Archie Gordon]

21 minutes ago, Tre Cool said:

... We're competing with sports in this country ...

is such an old-fashioned way of looking at things. We're in an international market.

[north yorks trinity]

3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Yeah, none of that is the reason RL is struggling in the UK.

I agree. Whilst it is amazing to watch the game played at the highest level, a lower level game between two evenly matched teams can be just as enjoyable to watch and just as exciting. Of course quality is important for international competitiveness which improves engagement, but it's also about how upbeat and confident we are as a sport and having good leaders, which unfortunately we have a very poor track record with since Richard Lewis.

[Tre Cool]

4 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

is such an old-fashioned way of looking at things. We're in an international market.

Not really. We sell SL to British sports fans and British TV companies.  And NRL must get 99% of it's income from domestic Aus/NZ market.

[Archie Gordon]

6 minutes ago, Tre Cool said:

Not really. We sell SL to British sports fans and British TV companies. 

...

Indeed - I am focusing on those British consumers. The point is that a growing rump of these people know that SL is inferior to the NRL - their view of our product is diminished a little and we lose their potential custom. It's one reason why league-mad Aussies in London never watched the Broncos; the same thing is now true of British folk who consume the NRL (but fairly passively) over SL (zero interest). I don't doubt that you could put an NRL game on in London and it would comfortably outdraw a SL game. These are British consumers who are snubbing SL precisely because the market is international.

[Kayakman]

There is nothing wrong with the on field product...it is good.   The problem lies in the structure and function of RL in England itself...just look at the Toronto fiasco and how it was doomed by many from the beginning....then they just created a self fulfilling prophecy.  Sure there were problems, some serious, but they could have been overcome...petty selfishness won out in the end....it is at the root of the problem in English RL governance.

[Tre Cool]

9 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Indeed - I am focusing on those British consumers. The point is that a growing rump of these people know that SL is inferior to the NRL - their view of our product is diminished a little and we lose their potential custom. It's one reason why league-mad Aussies in London never watched the Broncos; the same thing is now true of British folk who consume the NRL (but fairly passively) over SL (zero interest). I don't doubt that you could put an NRL game on in London and it would comfortably outdraw a SL game. These are British consumers who are snubbing SL precisely because the market is international.

The Broncos are an unfashionable club in an unfashionable sport in an unfashionable league.  UK RLs issues run much deeper than the quality of the sport on the pitch.  Which imo is very good and not holding the game back in itself and trying to match the NRLs standard of play in the short / medium term is completely pointless / unachievable.

[Archie Gordon]

5 minutes ago, Tre Cool said:

The Broncos are an unfashionable club in an unfashionable sport in an unfashionable league.  UK RLs issues run much deeper than the quality of the sport on the pitch.  Which imo is very good and not holding the game back in itself and trying to match the NRLs standard of play in the short / medium term is completely pointless / unachievable.

Completely agree.

[sam4731]

4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

They were all set up in September and expected to play in February?

I concede to slight hyperbole but the point is there.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

The answer is obviously to resort back to part time and use the TV income money to fund 2 NRL teams - Yorkshire and Lancashire.

If that doesn't work, reduce from 2 to 1.

And if that doesn't work... I dunno, 36 team league!

[The Future is League]

I think certain clubs at all levels of the game to do more to promote the game to a wider community, by promoting themselves by doing a better job at promoting their home games for starters. It's called match day awareness.

[Leyther_Matt]

Maybe one for the positives thread, but of the 6 games I’ve attended this season, I’d say 5 of them have been played with a much higher intensity than previous years in Super League. 

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

because its ran by ###### clueless idiots !!

 

[yipyee]

10 hours ago, frank said:

In a nutshell the game is too slow. There is no intensity in the game, watching UK league after  the NRL is like watching a game at half pace. I think players in the RL are quite capable of matching it with the Aussies, they just need coaches that can put some fire under them and speed up the game. No future in signing second rate Aussies or those over the hill they just adapt to the pace of the UK game..

Matching it with the aussies ??

Saints beat 2 Australian sides in Australia.

Panthers won a third title on the bounce but looked ordinary against saints, they were relived to take it to extra time.

[Dunbar]

What is it with this assumption with Rugby League fans that the only answer to making the sport more intense, and as an extension, more enjoyable, is to make it faster.

If anything, the opposite is true.  The faster the game, the less intense as people find contact, fall on their fronts and secure a quick play the ball. There is nothing intense or entertaining with watching a team roll down field because the defensive line is constantly retreating.

 

[Dunbar]

I can't find anything more recent but 2020 is not a long time ago.

1. There were 858 tackles in the 2020 Super LeagueGrandFinal; a rise on the number of tackles in the 2018 and 2019 finals. It is also a massive 196 tackles more than the 662 in this year’s NRL Grand.

2. The ball-in-play time in the Super League Grand Final was 62 minutes and 16 seconds, which is over seven minutes more than the NRL Grand Final that year

https://www.superleague.co.uk/article/1774/super-league-grand-final-2020-faster-&-harder

[binosh]

The sooner SL teams are mandated into having academies, reserves, etc the better.

[N2022]

11 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

We do suffer by comparison to the NRL. The answer is not to dilute quality further by moving to a 14-team SL - a top 10 for me.

I also think we suffer by having every blooming game under lights on Thursday/Friday night. It's poor for creating a weekend narrative and, often, the lights aren't up to it for TV consumption. The Saturday games in daylight are a nice relief.

Agree. Thursday 8pm is not good for bringing in young families.

[Big Picture]

5 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I can't find anything more recent but 2020 is not a long time ago.

1. There were 858 tackles in the 2020 Super LeagueGrandFinal; a rise on the number of tackles in the 2018 and 2019 finals. It is also a massive 196 tackles more than the 662 in this year’s NRL Grand.

2. The ball-in-play time in the Super League Grand Final was 62 minutes and 16 seconds, which is over seven minutes more than the NRL Grand Final that year

https://www.superleague.co.uk/article/1774/super-league-grand-final-2020-faster-&-harder

That tackle count is clearly inflated. Divided by 61 minutes 16 seconds, it works out to an impossible average of 13.779 tackles per minute!

[Pulga]

I watched my first SL game of the season this morning. I actually thought it was a lot faster, mainly because the ruck was very messy.

It struggles in the UK for many reasons but they're all unpalatable.

Promotion and Relegation is the biggest one. You're not soccer. You never will be. No other professional sports league outside of soccer does P&R because they are also not soccer.

The English ethos of "if you're successful enough on the field then you should be in the top flight" is a nostalgic fantasy of a time before sport was big business. There's a reason why consultancy firms exist that look at the feasibility of new sports franchises. They can spend years looking into a new team, spend millions of dollars working out where best to put a team, look into sponsors, look into demographics, growth of regions etc and still get it wrong but SL is happy to grant a dying ex-mining/manufacturing/whatever industry town a ticket to the top flight.

We've actually been able to see what holding off on relegation does to a club like Catalans. 

SL is packaged very poorly too compared to the NRL. I'm not sure if there are less cameras but it feels that way. The commentary is very drab. The difference between NRL and SL social media is quite stark.

If I was SL I would be basically ripping off every idea the NRL has. Hell, the NRL ripped off Magic round. There's no shame in it. We're all family.

SL has the millstone of tradition tied around its neck. Unless they cut it lose they're just going to continue to sink.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Pulga

[The British Lion]

18 hours ago, frank said:

In a nutshell the game is too slow. There is no intensity in the game, watching UK league after  the NRL is like watching a game at half pace. I think players in the RL are quite capable of matching it with the Aussies, they just need coaches that can put some fire under them and speed up the game. No future in signing second rate Aussies or those over the hill they just adapt to the pace of the UK game..

It's 100 percent the play the ball. Too much wrestle and lying on allowed by defensive teams (some teams have mastered the art). 

Im sorry to say, and im not a RU fan, but some of the rucks are as long as some of our play the balls recently. Due to lying on tactics and wrestling.

 

[Griff]

5 hours ago, Big Picture said:

That tackle count is clearly inflated. Divided by 61 minutes 16 seconds, it works out to an impossible average of 13.779 tackles per minute!

It'll be the number of times players were involved in a tackle. Two or three men in each tackle brings the average down to a more realistic five or six ptbs a minute.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Griff