England vs Samoa Series

[Mojo]

6 minutes ago, Damien said:

Samoa have been playing and bubbling along for decade with NRL players. The 18k v Australia was last year. These crowds are very valid when we are looking to what expectations should be for a test match in England with a fraction of the Samoan support to call on.

18k last year was played in Townsville in an area where hardly any samoans lived there. A lot of the samoan fans complained about the venue because they wanted it in Sydney. And yes Samoa did have nrl players in the past but they were players just starting there careers or near the end of it. It's not like now where alot of those players are turning down the kangaroos and kiwi jersey to play for samoa in their prime.

[Hopie]

3 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

what if someone decides they want to come with you on the day  or one of the kids mates wants to come? how does that work in the digital age? sorry but not with all the modern ways 

If you have unreliable mates who only decide to come at the last minute, buy your tickets in the unreserved section, then try and buy more at the last minute and you can still watch the game together. This game should be attracting people more than, "ah I'm not doing anything so lets pop down and try and get in" on the day, but its unlikely to be sold out so it might work.

 

Regarding expectations, well I honestly think based on the prices and the venues the aim should have been to sell these games out. It was clear the organisers of the series didn't think they could do this and have been staggering sales and giving tickets away. The result is, here I am booking time off work to travel to the games, paying full price for tickets and feeling like a chump because some people are getting in for nowt, or are on a massive discount, because the organisers can't find Rugby league fans who want to watch top quality Rugby league and sell them a ticket. This ground has sold out this year for Rugby League,  and with it being an England game you should be able to target those who don't regularly go, or who have never been before. No doubt there are handicaps with late fixture confirmation, but seriously what did they learn from last year? Who are they partnered with for marketing and ticket distribution?

 

[Dave T]

22 minutes ago, Mojo said:

You can't really compare those previous crowd numbers to the recent ones. You have to remember this samoan team came of age after the world cup. Next year they'll be in a tournament with the Kiwis and Tonga and I won't be surprised if every game out of those 3 nations gets sold out. 

It isn't necessarily that those crowds are bad, it's perhaps a reminder of the level we are at in international RL.

Even in Oz and NZ with the 'away' support and all the media and financial advantages, the crowds are modest for these games. 

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Hopie said:

If you have unreliable mates who only decide to come at the last minute, buy your tickets in the unreserved section, then try and buy more at the last minute and you can still watch the game together. This game should be attracting people more than, "ah I'm not doing anything so lets pop down and try and get in" on the day, but its unlikely to be sold out so it might work.

 

Regarding expectations, well I honestly think based on the prices and the venues the aim should have been to sell these games out. It was clear the organisers of the series didn't think they could do this and have been staggering sales and giving tickets away. The result is, here I am booking time off work to travel to the games, paying full price for tickets and feeling like a chump because some people are getting in for nowt, or are on a massive discount, because the organisers can't find Rugby league fans who want to watch top quality Rugby league and sell them a ticket. This ground has sold out this year for Rugby League,  and with it being an England game you should be able to target those who don't regularly go, or who have never been before. No doubt there are handicaps with late fixture confirmation, but seriously what did they learn from last year? Who are they partnered with for marketing and ticket distribution?

 

Where are the discounted tickets?

[Damien]

11 hours ago, Mojo said:

18k last year was played in Townsville in an area where hardly any samoans lived there. A lot of the samoan fans complained about the venue because they wanted it in Sydney. And yes Samoa did have nrl players in the past but they were players just starting there careers or near the end of it. It's not like now where alot of those players are turning down the kangaroos and kiwi jersey to play for samoa in their prime.

I'm not sure why you are making excuses, the crowds are there for a good decade for context and its pretty black and white. We can similalry talk about Australia only getting 20k v NZ last season or NZ only getting 13k for a final against Australia.

Edited October 26, 2024 by Damien

[Anita Bath]

4 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

I can log in buy a ticket, don’t need to go to a cash machine , scan a code at the ground and go in.

thats easier in my opinion, I haven’t had any cash in my wallet for a couple of years to be honest.

 

Dont forget to charge your phone. 

[George Watt]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

 

Nobody has ever argued that London don't deliver strong crowds. I've made that argument many times on this thread.

.

The first Ashes test of the 1963 series was played at Wembley(a new venue for Ashes matches).

Was working in London and went on a works trip with many who had never seen a RL match. It was played mid week under lights with rain around and attracted just under 14K. with a great Aus team led by Gasnier/Langlands/ Raper tonking GB.

Aus superiority was emphasised when I went to Swinton for the second match and they  put 50pts on us(crowd 30K).

Cannot recal if another Ashes match was ever played at Wembley.

Edited October 25, 2024 by George Watt
word missing

[Mojo]

15k tickets sold so far according to this article

https://www.nrl.com/news/2024/10/26/six-nrl-guns-set-to-fire-for-england-but-smithies-misses-cut/amp/

[StandOffHalf]

2 hours ago, N2022 said:

I get people liking cash on a tutnstile, especially if not big on phone tech.

But surely you and other people in that boat - as I was until not that long ago - understand that seats do get prebooked and might sell out before you make the journey. And the point the poster made about people wanting to join you on the day isn't a smartphone v printed ticket thing. It assumes sections of the ground aren't presold which could lead to a lot of disappointed supporters on the day

Of course, that is an inherent risk. I just think that there should be the option.

[Hopie]

5 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

what if someone decides they want to come with you on the day  or one of the kids mates wants to come? how does that work in the digital age? sorry but not with all the modern ways 

You can buy tickets on the day. 

[StandOffHalf]

4 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

so - when i was a kid - eg - having a kick around with the mates on a sat morn - said going to a game sat aft  with dad- eg gb  v nz - 2 of them got interested - dads got room in the car - they both turn up ready to set off clutching their cash given to them from their parents up the street - how does this work in the digital age now?

Disappointed kids

[Dullish Mood]

5 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

things used to be so simple - turn up - join the queue for the turnstile for the part of the ground you want to view from - give the turnstile operator your cash - go in - watch the game - imagine something as easy as that these days - no doubt you will have to download an app to book a toilet cubicle for the exact time you may need a poo  in this day and age 

….and then the world moved on from 1993.

[Big Picture]

6 hours ago, Gooleboy said:

Should be at least 20k then.

No not really.  All the non-World Cup matches were against either Australia or New Zealand, so there's no evidence that a non-World Cup match against an insignificant little island country should draw that well.

 

4 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

I absolutely think we should have tried for one of Newcastle or Emirates as the first Test. It helps the narrative. We certainly wouldn't have got 40k but we might have hit 30k - which might be about our aggregate for Wigan and Leeds.

I also think 13k in a smaller London stadium would be more helpful than the same at Wigan. If England RL are going to play so many games along the M62, and in the NW in particular, the brand is going to shrink. We're seeing it play out. 

No you wouldn't see 30k for a match against an insignificant little island country in those stadiums, and playing Internationals in a smaller London stadium wouldn't help either.

The former is because in all other sports those little insignificant island countries do nothing more than make up the numbers -- even in RU, a sport so small in world terms that they give 12 countries automatic qualification to their World Cup every time.  They're not a draw, simple as that.

The latter is because a real international sport would never try to con Londoners with an International in any stadium not up to the normal standard for Internationals which Londoners know means Wembley, Twickenham, the London Olympic Stadium and equivalents like the new Tottenham stadium.  In London one needs to go big to make an impact. 

[Big Picture]

4 hours ago, Click said:

Yeah, that is some of our points about how small time the RFL has been.

How can people have enough data to say that Tonga and Samoa don't have the same pulling power? 

The opposition doesn't even need to be the pull, the fact that England are actually playing a competitive game should be the draw.

OMG what planet do you live on anyway?

Here we have a sport invented in England yet England will play a competitive opponent from a country which as @Just Brownypointed out has less population than Hull.  You know, the place where in Yes Minister the Minister wanted to move the head office of a government department and Sir Humphrey and his colleagues all looked down on the place as if it was the ends of the Earth.

Tinpot little island countries like that will never be a draw and having them anywhere near the top of the sport puts it in a bad light.

[Big Picture]

3 hours ago, Hopie said:

If you have unreliable mates who only decide to come at the last minute, buy your tickets in the unreserved section, then try and buy more at the last minute and you can still watch the game together. This game should be attracting people more than, "ah I'm not doing anything so lets pop down and try and get in" on the day, but its unlikely to be sold out so it might work.

 

Regarding expectations, well I honestly think based on the prices and the venues the aim should have been to sell these games out. It was clear the organisers of the series didn't think they could do this and have been staggering sales and giving tickets away. The result is, here I am booking time off work to travel to the games, paying full price for tickets and feeling like a chump because some people are getting in for nowt, or are on a massive discount, because the organisers can't find Rugby league fans who want to watch top quality Rugby league and sell them a ticket. This ground has sold out this year for Rugby League,  and with it being an England game you should be able to target those who don't regularly go, or who have never been before. No doubt there are handicaps with late fixture confirmation, but seriously what did they learn from last year? Who are they partnered with for marketing and ticket distribution?

 

They learned that World Cups excepted those rinky-dink little island countries aren't a draw and never will be.  And considering how small time English RL was exposed as during the last World Cup it's hardly surprising that they didn't really want to travel over for this show.

[StandOffHalf]

Samoa is an awesome, admirable, and lovely country and I for one am proud and elated that they are a strong - and improving - force in the RL world.

[Just Browny]

2 hours ago, Big Picture said:

OMG what planet do you live on anyway?

Here we have a sport invented in England yet England will play a competitive opponent from a country which as @Just Brownypointed out has less population than Hull.  You know, the place where in Yes Minister the Minister wanted to move the head office of a government department and Sir Humphrey and his colleagues all looked down on the place as if it was the ends of the Earth.

Tinpot little island countries like that will never be a draw and having them anywhere near the top of the sport puts it in a bad light.

Can I please just distance myself from the offensive comments about Samoa here.

I think the fact Samoa is a very small and distant (from England) country plays a role in the matches being a weaker draw; I still think they are a brilliant RL country and they deserve respect. 

[Mojo]

2 hours ago, Big Picture said:

OMG what planet do you live on anyway?

Here we have a sport invented in England yet England will play a competitive opponent from a country which as @Just Brownypointed out has less population than Hull.  You know, the place where in Yes Minister the Minister wanted to move the head office of a government department and Sir Humphrey and his colleagues all looked down on the place as if it was the ends of the Earth.

Tinpot little island countries like that will never be a draw and having them anywhere near the top of the sport puts it in a bad light.

Damn did the samoans bully you at school or something? let it go man

[Dave T]

If we can grow non-Ashes internationals to a regular 20-25k sized event that is a decent place to be, and we aren't miles away. Remember, against France we are more likely to get 8k.

It's wrong to say there is no interest or whatever, but the interest at the moment is nearer 15k than 25k. And that isn't just on Samoa, that's a reflection of the fact that England RL hadn't been built up.

If we can get to Autumn internationals being 20k ish for other nations, 30k for the Kiwis and 40k average for the Aussies then that is OK. That's a solid base.

We don't have to bemoan the fact that we haven't got 50k for a game versus Samoa, or that Engkand RU would get 80k, that ain't relevant.

Be the best we can. That's what we should be holding the RFL to. And selling tickets through Wigan and offering g exclusive local incentives to only Wigan fans is not good enough.

[gingerjon]

5 hours ago, Big Picture said:

They learned that World Cups excepted those rinky-dink little island countries aren't a draw and never will be. 

England v Iceland, 7 June 2024, Attendance: 81,000.

England v Fiji, 26 August 2023, Attendance: 56,854

But I'm sure you know what you're talking about, really.

[gingerjon]

8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

If we can grow non-Ashes internationals to a regular 20-25k sized event that is a decent place to be, and we aren't miles away. Remember, against France we are more likely to get 8k.

It's wrong to say there is no interest or whatever, but the interest at the moment is nearer 15k than 25k. And that isn't just on Samoa, that's a reflection of the fact that England RL hadn't been built up.

If we can get to Autumn internationals being 20k ish for other nations, 30k for the Kiwis and 40k average for the Aussies then that is OK. That's a solid base.

We don't have to bemoan the fact that we haven't got 50k for a game versus Samoa, or that Engkand RU would get 80k, that ain't relevant.

Be the best we can. That's what we should be holding the RFL to. And selling tickets through Wigan and offering g exclusive local incentives to only Wigan fans is not good enough.

The problem, for me, is that those 15,000, possibly even those 24,000 should we ever get there, will be existing fans just seeing an extra game. The value for that is literally that one game - gate income and not much else.

That is why we need to have those attendances outside the areas where people are already watching rugby league.

[M j M]

6 hours ago, Big Picture said:

No you wouldn't see 30k for a match against an insignificant little island country in those stadiums, and playing Internationals in a smaller London stadium wouldn't help either.

I didn't much care for your original work Insignificant Little Towns. But the sequel Insignificant Little Countries is even worse.

[Ainley Top]

If Samoa is good enough for King Charles, it's good enough for me️

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The problem, for me, is that those 15,000, possibly even those 24,000 should we ever get there, will be existing fans just seeing an extra game. The value for that is literally that one game - gate income and not much else.

That is why we need to have those attendances outside the areas where people are already watching rugby league.

I get that ,and we don't disagree, and tbh, I wrap that up in the incompetence point with the RFL. 

That said, England RL games are not solely expansion tools and therefore need to be in London etc. That is taking the point too far.

England games should however be wider than just a game featuring Wigan, Wire, Leeds players being held for fans of those clubs. They can still be held in the Heartlands and be sold to people who have no interest in watching Wire for example.

This isn't just a geographical point, although that is obviously the most visible and blunt element of this.

Staging games in Wigan and Leeds ain't bad, but I do agree that not pushing ourselves to bring the Englan team to other fans is absolutely an issue.

As I've always maintained, we have a pretty good formula for geographical approach. NW, NE and London. Staging only two matches isn't good enough.

Edited October 26, 2024 by Dave T

[Gav Wilson]

9 hours ago, Dave T said:

Where are the discounted tickets?

There was a link doing the rounds on Whatsapp last night where you could get tickets for free...