Sat 24th Feb: WCC: Wigan Warriors v Penrith Panthers KO 8pm (Sky/BBC/SuperLeague+)

[StandOffHalf]

1 hour ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I'd question the claim of "certainly". If you mean the pass from the centre, it's one of these that has opposition fans shouting "FORWARD" but when you look at it closely out of the hands, it's a long way from certain. If you mean the one back inside, there's a degree of allowance for momentum. Again, a long way from certain.

I reckon both calls were fair and logical. Encouraging that none of the Panthers complained. We don't want passes called forward on suspicion.

I looked at it again and the Keighran pass still looks forward, but it isn't as obvious as it seemed live

[Padge]

51 minutes ago, George Watt said:

Is Stevo's momentum rule re emerging?

It is a real law of the game.

SECTION 10 - KNOCK-ON AND FORWARD PASS

NOTES Direction of pass

1. The direction of a pass is relative to the player making it and not to the actual path relative to the ground. A player running towards his opponents’ goal line may throw the ball towards a colleague who is behind them but because of the thrower’s own momentum the ball travels forward relative to the ground. This is not a forward pass as the thrower has not passed the ball forward in relation to themself. This is particularly noticeable when a running player makes a high, lobbed pass.

[Exiled Wiganer]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

I'm talking about the one from Keighran. I was right in line with it and it was definitely forward. Everyone around me said the same.

I would say not from the hands, Damien. It goes forward because of physics. 

Having looked again a couple of times today (playing We are the Champions to death as a theme tune…), I am relaxed about all of the decisions save for the offside for French’s try, where they drew the line later than they should have done and the strip. In Wardle’s case by the time Moore is in position to see it, he is likely to have seen the point of the ball on the line - which is all that is required. He might not have thought about how it got there, but we see players jostling to put the ball down all the time. 

Overall, we were the more dangerous side, and created more clean cut chances. We are set up to lose the yardage battle (as we did in the GF if I recall), but to make our chances count. 

If this Penrith side is genuinely a great champion side, then our win is one that the club and Super League can be very proud of. They were 2 well matched teams, and the one that created 3/4 tries through structure and speed rightfully prevailed over the one whose 2 tries were scrappy at best. 

[GeordieSaint]

51 minutes ago, Damien said:

I'm a Wigan fan, I'm quite happy that it wasn't given as forward. Just saying as I saw it. I've also seen worse not given and seen ones like it pinged. Obviously I'm happy it went our way on this occasion.

I thought it was forward. Thought the next pass to Isa was even more forward. 

But I genuinely don’t care. It pain me to say it but I’d rather you lot win it than hear and see the smugness from the Aussies that English RL is rubbish. I think I said last night that I was looking forward to the moaning from our friends down under. Some haven’t disappointed. 

So well done Wigan and glad you lot had a great evening. But that’s it. Back to the rivalry. Looking forward to Good Friday. Should be a belter.

 

Edited February 25 by GeordieSaint

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

I thought it was forward. Thought the next pass to Isa was even more forward. 

But I genuinely don’t care. It pain me to say it but I’d rather you lot win it than hear and see the smugness from the Aussies that English RL is rubbish. I think I said last night that I was looking forward to the moaning from our friends down under. Some haven’t disappointed. 

So well done Wigan and glad you lot had a great evening. But that’s it. Back to the rivalry. Looking forward to Good Friday. Should be a belter.

Great to hear it. Yes the Aussie media and fans have gone into overdrive. They just love to dismiss it as another trial game when it suits and blame the ref.

[StandOffHalf]

25 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I would say not from the hands, Damien. It goes forward because of physics. 

Having looked again a couple of times today (playing We are the Champions to death as a theme tune…), I am relaxed about all of the decisions save for the offside for French’s try, where they drew the line later than they should have done and the strip. In Wardle’s case by the time Moore is in position to see it, he is likely to have seen the point of the ball on the line - which is all that is required. He might not have thought about how it got there, but we see players jostling to put the ball down all the time. 

Overall, we were the more dangerous side, and created more clean cut chances. We are set up to lose the yardage battle (as we did in the GF if I recall), but to make our chances count. 

If this Penrith side is genuinely a great champion side, then our win is one that the club and Super League can be very proud of. They were 2 well matched teams, and the one that created 3/4 tries through structure and speed rightfully prevailed over the one whose 2 tries were scrappy at best. 

It bears saying once again that Moore awarding the try on the field because of being unsighted and then seeing the end bit where the ball has been advanced is understandable. 

The video ref is the one who's come up with the howler. Moore giving it because of grounding becomes irrelevant once the lifting of the arm to illegally advance the ball is seen

Edited February 25 by StandOffHalf

[Damien]

It is funny though how some Australian fans love to dismiss the WCC as a trial game and irrelevant but yet seem awfully bothered when they lose and are awfully keen to moan about the referee and make excuses.

[Dave T]

16 minutes ago, Damien said:

It is funny though how some Australian fans love to dismiss the WCC as a trial game and irrelevant but yet seem awfully bothered when they lose and are awfully keen to moan about the referee and make excuses.

Let's be honest, with all the advantages that the Aussies have, it's a bit of an embarrassment that these games are even close, never mind Penrith losing for two years running. It's great!

[Damien]

It seems like the RFL are partaking in a little click bait. Surely they know what bitter Aussies and certain fans of other clubs will do here?

[redjonn]

11 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

It bears saying once again that Moore awarding the try on the field because of being unsighted and then seeing the end bit where the ball has been advanced is understandable. 

The video ref is the one who's come up with the howler. Moore giving it because of grounding becomes irrelevant once the lifting of the arm to illegally advance the ball is seen

the video ref did mention he was looking to see if momentum or illegally moved.   He decided it wasn't.  At least he looked and checked, all be it he formed a different judgement to yourself.

[StandOffHalf]

5 minutes ago, redjonn said:

the video ref did mention he was looking to see if momentum or illegally moved.   He decided it wasn't.  At least he looked and checked, all be it he formed a different judgement to yourself.

He looked at the attention in the tackle from the defenders and in focusing on that completely missed Wardle illegally lifting up his grounded arm to advance the ball.

Just bad video reffing, unfortunately.

[tuutaisrambo]

Well Played Wigan

Brilliant defensive display against arguably the best NRL team of all time.

It'a all good PR for those outside the bubble for Super League in front of a good FTA audience.

Probably not a good look appointing a video ref from Wigan who gave a few big calls the wrong way in Wigans favour but nobody will care about that outside RL circles.

Also just shows how good that Penrith side is........first Pre season game.......played a kid in place of Luai........and barring a dodgy ref might well have beaten the best team in SL on their own patch.

[Trojan]

12 hours ago, Padge said:

It is a real law of the game.

SECTION 10 - KNOCK-ON AND FORWARD PASS

NOTES Direction of pass

1. The direction of a pass is relative to the player making it and not to the actual path relative to the ground. A player running towards his opponents’ goal line may throw the ball towards a colleague who is behind them but because of the thrower’s own momentum the ball travels forward relative to the ground. This is not a forward pass as the thrower has not passed the ball forward in relation to themself. This is particularly noticeable when a running player makes a high, lobbed pass.

 

I thought it was a forward pass at the time, but if the ref didn't see it there's nothing to be done, them's the rules.  As for the "double movement" I thought the Wigan player was pushed over the line by the Aussie wrestle.

The ball steal?  Hard to say, stupid rule anyway.  The Aussie "try" at the end?   I couldn't see the ball grounded, and neither could the video ref.  The on field ref was in a better position than anyone and he said no try.   End of.

I thought it was a tight exciting game and any side that lost could consider themselves unlucky.  Conversely any side that won could consider themselves lucky.  Whether we are catching the Aussies as everyone says it s moot point.  Well done Wigan.  Anyone who's read my posts on here over the years knows I'm no Wigan fan.

 

[Kayakman]

43 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

He looked at the attention in the tackle from the defenders and in focusing on that completely missed Wardle illegally lifting up his grounded arm to advance the ball.

Just bad video reffing, unfortunately.

The call was made and verified.

Game can best be summarized as "Penrith decides to win by running the ball down the throat of Wigan===close but no cigar."

[LeeF]

10 minutes ago, Trojan said:

 

I thought it was a forward pass at the time, but if the ref didn't see it there's nothing to be done, them's the rules.  As for the "double movement" I thought the Wigan player was pushed over the line by the Aussie wrestle.

The ball steal?  Hard to say, stupid rule anyway.  The Aussie "try" at the end?   I couldn't see the ball grounded, and neither could the video ref.  The on field ref was in a better position than anyone and he said no try.   End of.

I thought it was a tight exciting game and any side that lost could consider themselves unlucky.  Conversely any side that won could consider themselves lucky.  Whether we are catching the Aussies as everyone says it s moot point.  Well done Wigan.  Anyone who's read my posts on here over the years knows I'm no Wigan fan.

 

Correct.

Also

 

[Wigan Riversider]

Anybody know anything about the report of fireworks being set off outside the hotel where Penrith were staying? Assume that they have now flown home and a great victory for Wigan is now a part of history.

Greg Alexander has said that the Wardle try is the worst in history. As an earlier poster posted Ryan Hall try 2014 wasn't given by Australian video referee as there wasn't conclusive proof to award the try. That was the worst decision ever IMHO.

Let's all move on happily.

[dkw]

Seeing how upset the aussies are over this result has just made it all the more sweeter, though its strange seeing them get bothered by a game that isnt important etc....

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

13 hours ago, Damien said:

It is funny though how some Australian fans love to dismiss the WCC as a trial game and irrelevant but yet seem awfully bothered when they lose and are awfully keen to moan about the referee and make excuses.

Yes, however I'd imagine that there a quite a few Aussie supporters of other clubs in the NRL who quite enjoyed seeing Penrith lose to  a Pommie team. 

[WN83]

2 hours ago, tuutaisrambo said:

Well Played Wigan

Brilliant defensive display against arguably the best NRL team of all time.

It'a all good PR for those outside the bubble for Super League in front of a good FTA audience.

Probably not a good look appointing a video ref from Wigan who gave a few big calls the wrong way in Wigans favour but nobody will care about that outside RL circles.

Also just shows how good that Penrith side is........first Pre season game.......played a kid in place of Luai........and barring a dodgy ref might well have beaten the best team in SL on their own patch.

The video ref isn't from Wigan, it was Chris Kendall, who is from Huddersfield.

 

I've seen a lot of people calling out Liam Moore (who is from Wigan) on his decisions but the only thing I saw him get wrong on the night was the ball steal on Harry Smith. He looks at the ball on the floor for the Wardle try and sends it up as a try and he cannot see the ball for the May try at the end and therefore sends it up as a no try and both calls were totally understandable on his part. 

 

In terms of the video refs decisions, there is zero issue with the May one. He cannot overturn that without getting to see it grounded. The Wardle try is the big controversy but I keep seeing people saying it is short of the line and that's not right. It gets to the line but the call is then on it being a double movement or not. I personally would've turned it down but not for it being short and it isn't the sort of obvious double movement you see dozens of time in a season.  The other decision he may have got wrong was the no try on French. Even if both feet have to be behind the ball, I'm not sure how he made that call as quickly as that and that would be given in Superleague without a shadow of a doubt. Maybe he saw the moans and groans incoming from the Wardle decision. 

[dkw]

1 hour ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

Yes, however I'd imagine that there a quite a few Aussie supporters of other clubs in the NRL who quite enjoyed seeing Penrith lose to  a Pommie team. 

There's definitely a lot of other NRL fans on social media seemingly enjoying the schadenfreude of decisions going against them.

[dkw]

1 minute ago, WN83 said:

The video ref isn't from Wigan, it was Chris Kendall, who is from Huddersfield.

 

I've seen a lot of people calling out Liam Moore (who is from Wigan) on his decisions but the only thing I saw him get wrong on the night was the ball steal on Harry Smith. 

 

Even that mistake is sort of understandable as it seems the game was played under International RL rules, but tweaked to fit the NRL`s ball stealing interpretation. So he did get the call right under international RL rules (I think), we shouldnt be too harsh on a ref getting something like that wrong in a split second with a stupid rule change in place.

[WN83]

4 minutes ago, dkw said:

Even that mistake is sort of understandable as it seems the game was played under International RL rules, but tweaked to fit the NRL`s ball stealing interpretation. So he did get the call right under international RL rules (I think), we shouldnt be too harsh on a ref getting something like that wrong in a split second with a stupid rule change in place.

Agreed and even with that it seemed like he got a call in his ear as initially he looks like he wants to play on. I'm a Wigan fan, I suppose I'm going to say it but I thought Moore had a good night and if people want to point the finger at an official then it should be at Kendall (and even then I think these supposed horror decisions have been hugely exaggerated). 

[Gillyref]

2 hours ago, WN83 said:

Agreed and even with that it seemed like he got a call in his ear as initially he looks like he wants to play on. I'm a Wigan fan, I suppose I'm going to say it but I thought Moore had a good night and if people want to point the finger at an official then it should be at Kendall (and even then I think these supposed horror decisions have been hugely exaggerated). 

I'm a massive rugby league fan but credit to Wigan they prevented Penrith in getting fast play the balls. The only thing Moore did wrong was he didn't clamp down on these, the lying on at the play the ball,  interference at the play the ball and offside at the play the ball and to be honest Wigan are the best team in the world to do it . They pinned Penrith  back with a  good kicking game down the field . So well done these games should Always have neutral referees this is the reason the officials get a lot of un justified abuse.

[WN83]

1 hour ago, Gillyref said:

I'm a massive rugby league fan but credit to Wigan they prevented Penrith in getting fast play the balls. The only thing Moore did wrong was he didn't clamp down on these, the lying on at the play the ball,  interference at the play the ball and offside at the play the ball and to be honest Wigan are the best team in the world to do it . They pinned Penrith  back with a  good kicking game down the field . So well done these games should Always have neutral referees this is the reason the officials get a lot of un justified abuse.

Agreed on nuetral refs but it’s the same when English clubs go to Oz. Wigan paid for Penrith to come over and we’re unlikely to offer to let them bring an Aussie ref with them. The issue with nuetrals is where do we get them?  Are there any Kiwis now? (I know there was Henry Penenara) and I know there are no French refs in Superleague so tough to see an answer. Avoiding it being a Wiganer in charge of Wigan shouid be an open goal though and not to avoid him being bias but to avoid accusations of that. 
 

On a separate note with the game, it was good to see Wigan were fit enough to defend for 80 minutes after their ‘pi*s easy English pre season’. We’ll be dangerous if we ever bother having a proper one. 

Edited February 26 by WN83

[Dunbar]

4 hours ago, WN83 said:

the only thing I saw him get wrong on the night was the ball steal on Harry Smith

The international laws of Rugby League state that 'where two or more playersare effecting the same tackle - irrespective of whether all but one “drops off” the tackle, and the ball is subsequently taken from the tackled player, a penalty will be awarded against the player or players effecting the tackle.'

Edited February 26 by Dunbar