IMG Grading System (Many Merged Threads)

[Taffy Tiger]

24 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

I get what you are saying but nobody can convince me that a Championship club after next year can achieve 15 points because of how the system is stacked against them. 

agree , it will be hard and more so as more teams make Cat A , but not impossible . Take away the 0.35 bonus points on offer and it would be difficult to see anyone from 15th down making Cat A though .

I guess you would have to look at the current situation with P&R though and under that system we can say for definite that nobody below 13th will make SL as things stand . 

[Archie Gordon]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

... Why does it look like a "lip service" issue? It's easy to say that this or that looks like a "lip service" slide, 

...

It is incredibly easy to say, yes.

It is much harder to say there's going to be something tangible. Give me a tiny breadcrumb, an inkling of a plan for the Champ, London, women, community game, etc. I'm not expecting an immediate paradigm shift - just the first step beyond that slide. I'm not being deliberately antagonistic - I genuinely care about those areas of the game, two of which I am heavily involved in.

[Harry Stottle]

5 minutes ago, Taffy Tiger said:

 

I guess you would have to look at the current situation with P&R though and under that system we can say for definite that nobody below 13th will make SL as things stand . 

Well London did it last season in 2023 with P&R Taffy from 5th place in the Championship effectivly 17th place in the League Ladder.

And who knows they may/could have replicated the success of the last team before them to get to SL through P&R that being Leigh in 2022 but for the fact that London were told no matter how well you do, no matter where you finish even winning the League Leaders and GF you are being demoted for 2025, what would you have done if you were Mr Hughes spent on team building or keep most players on a part time basis, and they still may not finish in a relegation position.

[Taffy Tiger]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Well London did it last season in 2023 with P&R Taffy from 5th place in the Championship effectivly 17th place in the League Ladder.

And who knows they may/could have replicated the success of the last team before them to get to SL through P&R that being Leigh in 2022 but for the fact that London were told no matter how well you do, no matter where you finish even winning the League Leaders and GF you are being demoted for 2025, what would you have done if you were Mr Hughes spent on team building or keep most players on a part time basis, and they still may not finish in a relegation position.

Agree with what you are trying to say HS , but London didn't finish 17th they finished 13th . Even under the P&R system where you finish in the regular season doesn't count for much , other than determining your route to the GF . The team finishing 13th is the team that wins the Championship GF .

 

[JohnM]

What makes for discussion is that no one really knows the answers, in my opinion. And that against the relentless spreading of FUD by those who are determined to oppose anything and everything to do with the project.  This creates a high degree of polarisation.

My position is that this is the start of a long process, that the first phase, the grading process and outcome is not yet finished (and may yet be refined further by the end of next season).  I'd have thought that the Championship clubs would be putting the their energy into looking at their own gradings, how to improve them, then how collectively to work with the RFL to build the momentum .

Edited September 17 by JohnM
Correction of mis-keying.

[Harry Stottle]

11 minutes ago, Taffy Tiger said:

Agree with what you are trying to say HS , but London didn't finish 17th they finished 13th . Even under the P&R system where you finish in the regular season doesn't count for much , other than determining your route to the GF . The team finishing 13th is the team that wins the Championship GF .

 

Yes London were deemed to have finished 13th after winning the GF, but at the end of the regular season of games they finished 5th in the League (17th overall) and as you say that was their route to partake in the play offs. 

So considering London won the GF they were immediately at the final whistle elevated to 12th in SL, we know this by London taking 12th position for the loop fixture designations.

Edited September 16 by Harry Stottle

[The Blues Ox]

45 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It is possible, but certainly more difficult. But it's likely that for the next few years at least they wouldn't necessarily need to make 15pts from the championship to make SL.

Yeah without a doubt if SL teams don't all quickly achieve Grade A status then it could give a Championship club an outside chance and we will know more once we see how many actual Grade A clubs there are. 

Ive run through the figures over and over regards a Championship team getting over 15 points and I did one where they could have 15.01 points but I were maxing out on pretty much everything they could score which I think is unrealistic and allowing for 3 13th place finishes. I think finances is the easy part but other things like Foundation turnover and points related to stadium just make it so difficult.

[The Blues Ox]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes London were deemed to have finished 13th after winning the GF, but at the end of the regular season of games they finished 5th in the League (17th overall) and as you say that was their route to partake in the play offs. 

So considering London won the GF they were immediately at the final whistle elevated to 12th in SL, we know this by London taking 12th position for the loop fixture designations.

Ive forgot what was said on this but positions after league rounds are they final and then you get the bonus points for the grand final win? So London would still have a 17th place finish and then the extra 0.25 points for the GF win?

[dboy]

No, they finished 13th ( to average with the 2 previous years), and gained an extra 0.25 points.

[Taffy Tiger]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes London were deemed to have finished 13th after winning the GF, but at the end of the regular season of games they finished 5th in the League (17th overall) and as you say that was their route to partake in the play offs. 

So considering London won the GF they were immediately at the final whistle elevated to 12th in SL, we know this by London taking 12th position for the loop fixture designations.

That's right but not sure what point you were trying to make here . You replied to part of my post , specifically 'I guess you would have to look at the current situation with P&R though and under that system we can say for definite that nobody below 13th will make SL as things stand . '

As we have determined 13th place is given to Championship GF Winner irrespective of where they finish in the league at the end of the regular season . In the current P&R system nobody below 13th will make SL . 

Now I know that the mood of people sending text messages can sometimes be misundertood so I do want to say at this point that I send this with no animosity whatsoever , and I think your views on P&R are well thought out and have some merit , and , even though I lean towards the IMG system , at least until we have some evidence as to whether it works or not , it is only my preference and not necessarily the right way.

 

[Dave T]

39 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Ive forgot what was said on this but positions after league rounds are they final and then you get the bonus points for the grand final win? So London would still have a 17th place finish and then the extra 0.25 points for the GF win?

London would be 13th for that year, plus the bonus.

[Worzel]

I think we can all surely accept that the IMG points system is driving clubs to show they’re trying improve now: Even Huddersfield have now played their ‘Castleford Joker’

”We’re building a new stadium, look at these pretty pictures”

[dboy]

41 minutes ago, Worzel said:

I think we can all surely accept that the IMG points system is driving clubs to show they’re trying improve now: Even Huddersfield have now played their ‘Castleford Joker’

”We’re building a new stadium, look at these pretty pictures”

I don't think they've even got as far as the "pretty pictures" yet.

It looks more like a ramble of an old man trying to keep the peasants happy.

I wonder if there will be an actual announcement now.

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Other grading methods are available. Should we ask IMG?

Yes please, I believe they are the font of all knowledge.

[The Future is League]

12 hours ago, dboy said:

I don't think they've even got as far as the "pretty pictures" yet.

It looks more like a ramble of an old man trying to keep the peasants happy.

I wonder if there will be an actual announcement now.

Hopefully

[RP London]

On 17/09/2024 at 07:00, Worzel said:

I think we can all surely accept that the IMG points system is driving clubs to show they’re trying improve now: Even Huddersfield have now played their ‘Castleford Joker’

”We’re building a new stadium, look at these pretty pictures”

the good thing is that now, unlike in previous iterations of "minimum standards" this isn't going to be based on pretty pictures (i know that was tongue in cheek) or from just someone saying "we will do this" or even the spade in the ground.. these things are only judged by IMG when the ribbon is cut and the "thing" is used. 

[Gooleboy]

1 hour ago, RP London said:

the good thing is that now, unlike in previous iterations of "minimum standards" this isn't going to be based on pretty pictures (i know that was tongue in cheek) or from just someone saying "we will do this" or even the spade in the ground.. these things are only judged by IMG when the ribbon is cut and the "thing" is used. 

When the ribbon is cut on a new ground for Huddersfield, if it ever happens, IMG could be long gone.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

On 17/09/2024 at 07:00, Worzel said:

I think we can all surely accept that the IMG points system is driving clubs to show they’re trying improve now: Even Huddersfield have now played their ‘Castleford Joker’

”We’re building a new stadium, look at these pretty pictures”

I think they'll also gain points next year due to Dewsbury's relegation - as will Batley and Dewsbury themselves.....

Edited September 18 by Les Tonks Sidestep

[JonM]

2 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

I think they'll also gain points next year due to Dewsbury's relegation - as will Batley and Dewsbury themselves.....

Ah yes, the old increase your catchment area score by getting yourself relegated from the championship to League 1 trick. Well thought through this stuff.

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

21 minutes ago, JonM said:

Ah yes, the old increase your catchment area score by getting yourself relegated from the championship to League 1 trick. Well thought through this stuff.

Is that correct?

[JonM]

36 minutes ago, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

Is that correct?

Probably not. I suspect the increase in the population of Kirklees in the last 3 years has just about stopped it being true

The grading handbook says:

"Catchment Area is defined as the population of the Local Authority District where the club’s stadium is located divided by the total number of Tier 1 and Tier 2 clubs in the same area."

Kirklees population is 433,200: divide that by 3 gives you 144K each, enough for 1 grading point. Divide it by 2 gives you 216K each, still only enough for one point. It would need Batley to be relegated as well to increase the scores of all 3 of Huddersfield, Dewsbury & Batley. But probably Tier 2 means Championship and League 1, not just Championship - would be pretty stupid otherwise. Although as this is a system that gives Dewsbury the same catchment area points as London, maybe it being pretty stupid isn't a good argument.

 

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

16 minutes ago, JonM said:

Probably not. I suspect the increase in the population of Kirklees in the last 3 years has just about stopped it being true

The grading handbook says:

"Catchment Area is defined as the population of the Local Authority District where the club’s stadium is located divided by the total number of Tier 1 and Tier 2 clubs in the same area."

Kirklees population is 433,200: divide that by 3 gives you 144K each, enough for 1 grading point. Divide it by 2 gives you 216K each, still only enough for one point. It would need Batley to be relegated as well to increase the scores of all 3 of Huddersfield, Dewsbury & Batley. But probably Tier 2 means Championship and League 1, not just Championship - would be pretty stupid otherwise. Although as this is a system that gives Dewsbury the same catchment area points as London, maybe it being pretty stupid isn't a good argument.

 

Just checked, Kirklees consists of ten towns. Some clubs are getting screwed rotten here.

[LeeF]

21 minutes ago, JonM said:

Probably not. I suspect the increase in the population of Kirklees in the last 3 years has just about stopped it being true

The grading handbook says:

"Catchment Area is defined as the population of the Local Authority District where the club’s stadium is located divided by the total number of Tier 1 and Tier 2 clubs in the same area."

Kirklees population is 433,200: divide that by 3 gives you 144K each, enough for 1 grading point. Divide it by 2 gives you 216K each, still only enough for one point. It would need Batley to be relegated as well to increase the scores of all 3 of Huddersfield, Dewsbury & Batley. But probably Tier 2 means Championship and League 1, not just Championship - would be pretty stupid otherwise. Although as this is a system that gives Dewsbury the same catchment area points as London, maybe it being pretty stupid isn't a good argument.

 

Championship is tier 2, league 1 is tier 3 according to the operational rules.

Now call me a cynic but a SL club could dual reg with a club with the aim to keep them in tier 3?

[LeeF]

1 minute ago, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

Just checked, Kirklees consists of ten towns. Some clubs are getting screwed rotten here.

Some of those are fairly small towns especially compared to Huddersfield

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

14 minutes ago, LeeF said:

Some of those are fairly small towns especially compared to Huddersfield

Huddersfield, Batley & Dewsbury total approx 253,000 which means there's another 190,000 or so spread across the region. I hadn't realised all these three clubs were under the same authority, I certainly hadn't realised they had such a large area included in their catchment.