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You know what he means Tommy, no need to be so facetious. If Championship/L1 clubs go to the wall no matter how big or small they are that is the focal point of the sport vanishing from the town, it won't happen immediately but the community game in those towns will be effected in due course because of it, all the lads who graduate to academies don't come from cities/towns who run academies, being a Leeds fan you should be well aware of that. @tec is quite right, reducing funding to clubs such as Haven is cause for grave concern, but the likes of Leneghan who suggested a couple or three years ago (and I recall that you have concurred on occasion) that all the earned funding should be directed to SL, is either the words of someone who can't see the woods for the trees and envisage what the consequences could be, or someone who has no feeling whatsoever for the game as a whole just so long as "I'm alright Jack".

With the greatest of respect, I'd suggest that comments about clubs outside SL 'having a misplaced sense of importance' is symptomatic of the 'I'm alright Jack' mentality in our sport and that has contributed to a huge split in the game and loss of community......and that's exactly why the game is in the situation it's in.

The poster did'nt suggest they did.But you knew that and still could'nt resist the sarcastic comment.

And your point is? The reality is, without clubs outside SL, many talented young players would not get the opportunity to play and would be lost to the game. It's really no more complicated than that.

Toulouse Barrow Halifax Keighley Swinton Bradford York

When Leigh were in the 'no man's land' of the Championship in the licencing years the club endeavoured to keep the interest of the young un's going by offering 3 free under 16's season tickets to every full season ticket holder, lots of those kids populated the junior sections of the community clubs in the town, if the pro club wasn't there doing that and no matter at what the level the pro player's where at who were idols for those kids I doubt that as many would have taken up the sport but found some other game/pastime to get involved with, take clubs out of towns and you are removing the initial interest in the sport, and those kids in the heavy woollens won't be wearing RL shirts of any description.

It's the Iam alright Jack attitude imo and he's not the only one.

A bit of nostalgia here. I remember getting this in the Hotspur comic as a kid.

One point which I don't think has been made is there's too many clubs in the championship. It was increased to 14 when it should have stayed at 12. This also damaged league 1. It means some clubs in the championship struggle with funding (especially with the pitiful central funding) and are also terrified of dropping into league 1 where they get no funding and only 9 home games a season!

Wow. That comment sums up exactly what's wrong with our game.

And the vast majority are released and would be lost to the game if there wasn't any RL outside of SL. Tyler Dupree is a prime example when, ahead of his England debut, he publicly stated that if it wasn't for the opportunity to play at Oldham he would simply have left the game.

This seems a negative thread. The reality for most Championship 1 clubs that don’t own their ground is they need a backer. The figures shown for the unpaid wages indicate the average wage depending on the squad size to be c£250/300 per week even with a backer. To put your body on the line against full time players and to have to travel for hours on a coach, this is not a lot., My 17 year old has taken on a part time summer job and will be earning close to the lower of the above figures for making Ice cream The main issue the club face long term is either too high wages which can be dismissed, or too little income. Cutting wages leads to poorer results and lower crowds. Increasing income requires investment in facilities or the squad. Even if carried out the extra support may not equate to the win bonuses. i don’t believe you can run a championship team on gates of under 1000 without the backer but as we have seen relying on the backer is dangerous. I don’t think Whitehaven have done anything wrong and are right to try and avoid relegation, especially with fewer home matches being the result along with lower central funding and minimal away support. Overall I would challenge those saying the club are badly run to draw up a successful business plan that results in the club making a profit and sustainable growth. I have no idea of the answer as to how many clubs have a significant backer and would be in trouble without their financial input throughout the three divisions but I guess it is at best a significant minority We cannot as a sport afford to lose Cumbria. There would be nowhere else in the UK that could replace it,

If Bradford use more than 99 players, will they go to 3 digits or reuse squad numbers for those who weren't as good as they thought?

I'm a bit late to the party on discussion of the latest presentation and gradings and that generally the discussion has moved on on another thread to specific gradings for clubs but just thought I'd add my thoughts. I'm disappointed about a lack of weighting for Champ and League 1 clubs. Also I am disappointed by the quite blunt scoring with regards to fandom and facilities in particular. For example the viewership seems a bit ridiculous. I assume 0 points if not on TV then either 0.75 or 1 points depending on numbers. I'd like to see more range of possible points in attendance and the facilities. And I'm not particularly impressed by the all or nothing on stadium. For me there is little incentive for gradually improving your attendance/facilities etc incrementally to improve your score. This, along with a lack of weighting on attendances, leads to a higher likelihood of a closed shop.

Why do the RFL say "familiar face" as if anyone has ever heard of him?

I think that Barrow might be a tricky match for Fev. Decent team on their day.

Moaning about the colour clarity of a comic from the 60’s. Rugby League fans are undefeated.

SATURDAY 15th JULY Toulouse Olympique v Batley Bulldogs Toulouse by 28 SUNDAY 16th JULY Barrow Raiders v Featherstone Rovers Fev by 14 Halifax Panthers v Newcastle Thunder Fax by 22 Keighley Cougars v Widnes Vikings Draw Swinton Lions v London Broncos Swinton by 6 Whitehaven v Bradford Bulls Haven by 4 York Knights v Sheffield Eagles York by 10

Business!!! Really??? If it is business, how many clubs in SL would be in "business" if it wasn't for a sugar daddy pumping (in some cases £M's per season) in to them? How many clubs do you think would be sustainable business' if it wasn't for wealthy owners pumping money in and willing to write it off? How many club owners do you think will see a return on their investment? How many teams broke even, never mind made a profit? Wakefield was the only one, wasn't it???? All this rehashed "Framing the future" proposal is about, is trying to ensure the clubs at the top get a bigger slice of the pie, in the hope that the sugar daddy's won't have to pump as much money in, and to try to make the clubs more sustainable, because they cannot afford to keep throwing money away like they have done for years. The problem with that dream is, it won't mean the sugar daddy's at the top don't spend as much, or clubs becoming more sustainable. The basic problem is, most clubs are spending more than they are making, the same as it was when SL started. It would seem nothing has changed in that regard, other than weakening the teams outside of SL and widening the gap between the have's and have not's.

Surprisingly nobody has said it yet so i'll stick my head above the parapet - Cumbrian Franchise !!! I've said it numerous times on here over the years that I dont think any of the current Cumbrian clubs will ever be in a strong enough position to play at the top level again. Between the 3 Championship clubs and the numerous amateur clubs the county has a very long and extreemly strong history with RL and for me its the ideal area for the RFL to be targetting as an 'expansion' towards having another SL side. Whether the fans of Workington & Whitehaven would ever come together to support some form of North Cumbria franchise is another matter, but in terms of a future SL team i'd love to see a strong franchise team from Cumbria before one from places like Newcastle, Midlands, France etc.

I'm glad you posted this as I was about to comment with regards Sheffield and the fact that without the Eagles the fledgling junior set ups wouldnt even be fledgling and that seeps further south than here too (not sure quite how far south you could say though). Its great sitting here saying Cumbria would survive without Haven but how true is that really? how much does having Haven mean that the community game up there is strong. without being there and seeing the interaction I think it is very hard to judge how much you could lose quite a chunk of Cumbria with that one loss, and the knock on to that could be the end of Workington and the rest of Cumbria.. I agree with you about places like the heavy woollen district where the SL is right there but in other areas, those outpost areas, how much is it dependent on the semi pro teams being there as a focal point... we can speculate but only those involved up there could really tell us. Any club going bust is a loss to the game, how big a loss and what that impact is is hard to tell until it happens sadly.

I have to say looking at the comments on this thread there seems to be a split between the fans of SL clubs and the leagues below them.

May the best team win,shame this isn't the final.

great to see such travelling support , the more the merrier, enjoy the day it should be a cracking game

Tbf it’s not just Whitehaven, while I accept SL clubs are under no obligation to help anyone but themselves, if they do nothing to help the semi pro divisions or community game it won’t help super league in the long run.

As Dave suggests Cumbria county council was abolished, as were the district councils - all being replaced with unitary authorities (Cumberland and Westmoreland & Furness) which now provide all council services. So no Cumbria County Council any more, but Cumbria is still the ceremonial and shrieval county and the police and fire authority. As far as it relates to the situation in Yorkshire - Cumbria is now akin to the situation in any of N Yorks, W Yorks, S Yorks or the E Riding. But Yorkshire as a whole doesn't have any administrative or ceremonial role at present - it is just the traditional/historic county providing a cultural link between the various parts (N, E, S & W).

In the usual characteristic Big City entitled immodesty, defeat here will feel like the Visigoths sacking Rome in 410 for some Reds. It would seem the play off march had been thwarted. Civilisation collapsed. The Orcs ascended, led by a Leopard head wearing Chieftain. Personally with the "Yorkshire Super League" at the table's basement and Solly's attainment of the seemingly 20 points of safety, it feels structure overshadows scores. Fund raising achieved, council loan gained, co ownership built on, Foundation flourishing, Stadium to be sorted, attendances arising, revenue streams expanding and debt being resolved. Unlike Rome, this "Empire" is going from rust and iron to gold. So anything good on field seems like a bonus with the necessary job done. Leythers have already sold 1000. I am looking forward to this. Whether I do afterwards is another matter

Cumbria was not abolished, Cumbria is still a very much a county....... What happened earlier this year was the district councils were abolished and new councils were set up as Cumberland Council + Westmoreland & Furness Council, as the level bellow Cumbria County Council.

Who are the 3 struggling Championship clubs in Cumbria? The lack of understanding of anything outside of SL from the pomposity within never ceases to amaze me. If you think this would work, you have clearly never been to or really actually spoken to anybody connected to any of these clubs (not even the third which is in League 1 by the way).

1. Hooley 2. Manning 3. I'll go with Meadows, but everybody else deserved a place! My Champagne moment - KIbula on the rampage towards the nine 'oil

Correct, also Keighley used to be white with a red and green vee. But to get this in a national comic at the time was a big deal for rugby league supporting kids.

in all honesty i think youve already got better

No point in a merger, all that you end up with is just one team with about the same fan base and so what about all the talent produced up there? Nothing would change, SL teams would still just come in and cherry pick the best talent so it's not like you would end up with a stronger team.

Two struggling clubs in the same little borough that would rather die than cooperate. With their resources they could be be comfortable in the Championship, washing their faces and giving the local kids an opportunity to carve out careers in RL "WHAT???........Save them "jam eaters"? I would rather stick needles in my eyes than watch that lot" " OVER MY DEAD BODY"

If those commenting can just pop a couple pound on the page that would be great... Thanks

You say that they don't have to walk that tightrope, but it seems to me that the tightrope in question is semi-pro rugby league. If they aren't walking this tightrope, they don't exist. There may be things they can do to increase income, but their outgoings seem to just cover what is necessary to run as a middle of the road championship club. Spend less and there's a big risk of being in L1, where there are increased travel costs, less central funding and only 9 home league matches to gain match day income - potentially leaving them in a worse position even if able to reduce player payments, etc. Which of our semi-pro clubs (without a benefactor) are in a significantly better position, where a bad season or two wouldn't result in financial problems? What risk (tightrope) are you suggesting they can step back from and still continue to operate?

Will Hopoate is available

Wouldn't want to argue with that. I think that if Day is fit and can be included in the side as well as Butty, the way in which their time on the pitch is managed will be instrumental in deciding how we cope with the challenges to come. Both of them are highly effective at acting half back, but both have different ways of keeping up and building momentum. Properly used they are a potentially powerful combination for keeping the opposition guessing and on the back foot.

Apologies that I haven't been following this thread closely. But I have to say that Sky should see Rugby League/Super League as a valuable asset. Looking at the Sky Sports channels tonight, it is absolute dross. The Main Event is Sky Sports News (news as the Main Event!), then there is Premier League and Football League repeats on the two Soccer channels, repeats of F1, Ryder Cup golf, Women's cricket, and the Rugby Championship and then a documentary on Kobe Bryant. If they think that serving up not a single piece of live sporting action is quality then they are absolutely clueless. They need more action, not less.

Your assumption is wrong. I realise all clubs from top to bottom have a part to play in the development of players.

The problem at all levels of rugby league with the central funding is that it has been used to cover unrealistic wages instead of development and infrastructure, hopefully if they can survive this time they and other clubs will realise that they will have to cut their cloth accordingly

If you want to donate do so, if not no need for point scoring or smart comments. A number of teams are struggling with funding and its not going to change. SL will be whinging in 5 or 6 years due to lack of players coming through the youth system and it will only have its self to blame.

Lack of central funding has played a big part in this, and I’m sure it’s causing issues at other clubs too. Haven’s directors have publicly stated that their central funding has dropped from £160,000 last year to just £40,000 this year. That shortfall of £120,000 is a big hole to fill for a club at this level.

From a town fan it would be extremely sad for Cumbrian rugby league if Whitehaven ceased to exist. I don’t know the ins and outs of the club but one of their players has posted on Facebook asking for people to donate to the fund set up and stating the players are owed 1 months salary which amounts to 35k based on 2 wins and 2 losses. This apparently doesn’t cover any other costs such as doctors, coach or medical equipment just the players wages. He also states they haven’t had a recognised physio since April. None of that sounds good and I would think some drastic restructuring is needed for them to continue. Town had a similar cash flow problem last year, cut salaries by a third last year and got rid of out of county players. No doubt the wage structure this year would be even less given we are in league 1 and central funding at that level is very little. Yesterday we had a squad where 19 out of the 21 are Cumbrian, a lot were playing in the community game last year, have just had a substantial sponsorship for ground naming, started a ladies team, had numerous community takeover days by local clubs, and achieved an attendance of 1395 for yesterdays game against Rochdale. It will take time to produce a team capable of sustaining championship rugby but it will be done within the amount of money we have to spend. Things can be turned around but I think there’ll have to be some serious thinking about how they move forward.

It literally says 'Delivering two new councils for Cumbria' at the top. All it means is that 'Cumbria' is now just a ceremonial county with the actual power divided between local authorities. A bit like Yorkshire.

Where are Bradford getting all their brass from? They're not having great attendances and that hole in the ground must cost a fortune to maintain. Hope we're not gonna see the buckets come out at the end of the season.

No , a Dragons by 1 for me

Trouble is there’s nobody to start, run or fund them.

As always it looked and sounded great on TV Hoping to get to a KR game again this year....loved Craven street last time

Yes. Really. Will my fiver save Haven from being relegated? If yes, who'll be relegated instead? Should I send a fiver to Barrow and Swinton as well? Maybe Newcastle? It's an ethical minefield. In contrast, York went bust - yet Rugby League is not lost to York.