25 Nov: RLWC2017 (Semi Final): England v Tonga - Match Thread

[Scubby]

I'm scared to watch the highlights. Do we still win in the end?

[redjonn]

2 hours ago, Mattrhino said:

Well our two centres don't pass the ball at all which is a slight issue.

Actually I think Watkins has had a good tournament.   He has defended well, kept his defensive discipline and patience, plus in attack run good lines to help create space and  yes,,,passed when the chance to pass has been on...

He had a good game today....

[ivans82]

I was just as nervous watching the highlights as i was watching it live .On the final decision and seeing it over  , i thought Whitehead made more of a connection with the arm as opposed to the ball and anyway it was more the speed the player was travelling at that caused the ball to come free than anything else .Also agree with other posters that there was a massive forward pass leading to Tonga`s 2nd try , so justice was done .....On to the whisky bottle now to try and calm down . 

[Futtocks]

2 minutes ago, redjonn said:

Actually I think Watkins has had a good tournament.   He has defended well, kept his defensive discipline and patience, plus in attack run good lines to help create space and  yes,,,passed when the chance to pass has been on...

He had a good game today....

Watkins and McGillvray are developing a good partnership and, as long as they carry on being selected, it will only improve.

Bateman is doing the best he can at his game. But his game isn't playing centre.

[Just Browny]

4 hours ago, flyingking said:

Clearer image of the hand on Widdop. I do not think it is a broken tackle, therefore the tackle has been completed and so should have been a play the ball rather than continuation of play.

[jpmc]

6 hours ago, barnyia said:

It was a loose carry just as the Mac gillvary one was 20 seconds before, 

Correct but it was also one hell of a last ditch tackle 

[Wiltshire Rhino]

19 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I'm scared to watch the highlights. Do we still win in the end?

It was close!

[DavidM]

21 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I'm scared to watch the highlights. Do we still win in the end?

Watch it back to front , we came storming back and ran them down ...

[DavidM]

I thought their try was dubious mind , when it looked like the guy was short then shoved it over , but in close games you end up dissecting everything like that . I bet tupou is mulling spilling his bundle with the line begging ...

[Futtocks]

29 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I'm scared to watch the highlights. Do we still win in the end?

Not telling!  

[DavidM]

Again it’s a shame it was on at brainless o’clock . How good for our sport to see that spectacle at 9.00 for all people getting up on Saturday morning on bbc !

[deluded pom?]

1 hour ago, DavidM said:

Watch it back to front , we came storming back and ran them down ...

But it ends up 0-0. 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

The knock on rule is not in place if a ref deems it is stolen by the defender so there is a precedent for it.

But the referee didn't deem it stolen by a defender. He deemed it a loose carry, which (if it goes forward) would be covered by the knock on rule.

[MrPosh]

5 hours ago, Roy Boy said:

Well that was some game! 

England very lucky imo as the Tongans bombed a few good chances.

I dread to think how many points the Aussies are going to post in the final!

 

12.

They're going to post 12 points. And England are going to score 16.

[jannerboyuk]

Bestest game ever. In some ways this is the best world cup ever, everything bar wales and the crowds.

[stevereed100]

4 hours ago, 7723 said:

He did play. He played very well and we could have done with him being on the pitch for those last 10 minutes as we do seem a lesser team without him.

Didn't he get spelled twice? If so Bennett seems to have a view on his effectiveness..at last.

 

[Trojan]

4 hours ago, yanto said:

Check out the grounding for Tonga's first try .From behind the goal it looks short of the line .

I wondered if anyone was going to highlight this, first try, short, he rolled it over the line - should have been no try on the field, then Thaler doesn't have a problem saying "no try", second try came off a yards forward pass, arguably the third try came off a marginal forward pass too.  You could say that the ball was knocked out on the last play, perhaps it was, perhaps it wasn't but given that Tonga had been donated three tries courtesy of the officials I think it was only fair that what arguably was their only authentic try was disallowed by the official.

 

Great defensive effort from England.  Great game in particular from O'Loughlin, Graham, Roby, Brown, Widdop and Walmsley.  Is it my imagination or is Sam Burgess a fraction of the player he was four years ago?  Unionitis strikes again?

[DavidM]

Ironic that cecchin gave a shocking penalty when Fusitua dropped it blatantly into Sam’s hands ! It really is the worst rule in the book , full of mistakes n inconsistencies . Default position should be knock on , its so frustrating seeing so many errors rewarded

[jannerboyuk]

Knock on.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

But the referee didn't deem it stolen by a defender. He deemed it a loose carry, which (if it goes forward) would be covered by the knock on rule.

Well yes, but that is the whole debate. A ball being knocked out can be covered by other rules and interpretations.

[Dave T]

54 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Ironic that cecchin gave a shocking penalty when Fusitua dropped it blatantly into Sam’s hands ! It really is the worst rule in the book , full of mistakes n inconsistencies . Default position should be knock on , its so frustrating seeing so many errors rewarded

Most strange personally was Cecchin giving 15 penalties in this game compared to 3 for that opener vs Australia.

I wonder why he refereed the games differently.

[flyingking]

3 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

The clue is in the rule... hold. Simply touching somebody isn’t holding them. 

Does pulling the shirt count as holding or is it merely touching? England were fortunate in that Ben Thaler (and probably everyone else watching) was distracted by the movement of the Tongan player. If you watch from 51 seconds to 54 seconds of the BBC Sport highlights and slow it down it is clear that the Tongan defender's right arm is holding Widdop up until the moment the tackle is completed. It is when Widdop makes contact with the ground that the hand comes off his shirt. If the tournament had been using the NRL bunker or Thaler had demanded another angle, it is quite possible that we would now be congratulating Tonga and wishing them well for the final. I am delighted that England are in the final, even if they have got there in part thanks to a lucky break from the video ref. I feel that this break makes up for the Ryan Hall fingertip no try v Australia in the Four Nations.

[Trojan]

3 minutes ago, flyingking said:

Does pulling the shirt count as holding or is it merely touching? England were fortunate in that Ben Thaler (and probably everyone else watching) was distracted by the movement of the Tongan player. If you watch from 51 seconds to 54 seconds of the BBC Sport highlights and slow it down it is clear that the Tongan defender's right arm is holding Widdop up until the moment the tackle is completed. It is when Widdop makes contact with the ground that the hand comes off his shirt. If the tournament had been using the NRL bunker or Thaler had demanded another angle, it is quite possible that we would now be congratulating Tonga and wishing them well for the final. I am delighted that England are in the final, even if they have got there in part thanks to a lucky break from the video ref. I feel that this break makes up for the Ryan Hall fingertip no try v Australia in the Four Nations.

And the three Tonga "tries" more than make up for this.

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

Was pretty impressed with Watkins throughout the game. 

How different would that viewing be to people knowing the final score?

Breathed a huge sigh of relief when McGillvary got that 79th minute interception with 75 metres of clear space between him and the Tonga try line.  Then he ignores the space, heads for the middle and loses the ball.  Nightmare!

[Futtocks]

I reckon, if we pool our resources and continue picking the tries and penalties apart, we can revise this match right down to a nil-nil draw before the weekend's done.