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Widnes problems

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On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 12:47 PM, scotchy1 said:

Hull KR

Salford

Castleford

huddersfield

Hull, Wigan and Wakefield havent been relegated in the professional era and London were relegated and now play in a park in front of hundreds and are kept alive solely on David Hughes kindness.

As opposed to playing in a large stadium in front of hundreds you mean.  Hull and Wakefield were both excluded from the original SL  and promoted, same applies to Widnes.

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“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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1 minute ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Is it really relegation that has CAUSED these issues, or clubs that were managed in ways that were at best a massive gamble and at worst total incompetence? It seems very harsh to punish clubs that may have ambitions to be promoted because of the disastrous management that has taken place at some (not all!) of the relegated clubs.

Its not really some though, its most.

The fact is there is a massive difference between operating at an SL level and a championship level, and its less an issue of saying that club A can't operate at SL level or vice-versa (though there are obviously instances where that is the case, SL would kill many small clubs and Leeds couldnt operate at championship level for any length of time) the issue is P+R creates a necessity to be able to operate at both levels and switching between them is proving, often, an impossible task.

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Just now, Trojan said:

As opposed to playing in a large stadium in front of hundreds you mean.  Hull and Wakefield were both excluded from the original SL  and promoted, same applies to Widnes.

My argument wasnt that no club could survive promotion (though both Hull and Wakefield went bust after promotion, so not really a great help to your cause) But that clubs struggled to survive relegation.

And not as opposed to anything. London survived by cutting off field costs dramatically, to the point where their infrastructure isnt sustainable for an SL club, and still relying on the largess of David Hughes.

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22 hours ago, RP London said:

Its also probably worth mentioning that RU clubs often struggled to do this too. Football clubs used to massively struggle from prem to football league and from league 2 to the conference.. this has changed a bit due to the larger parachute payments and size of finishing position payments in the premier league and at the other end the closing of the gap between the conference and the football league (its not longer as semi pro). 

Exeter Chiefs were promoted to Union's top flight in 2010 and are now fairly dominant.  They are not one of the "traditional" top drawer clubs like Bath, Leicester, Wasps etc.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

My argument wasnt that no club could survive promotion (though both Hull and Wakefield went bust after promotion, so not really a great help to your cause) But that clubs struggled to survive relegation.

And not as opposed to anything. London survived by cutting off field costs dramatically, to the point where their infrastructure isnt sustainable for an SL club, and still relying on the largess of David Hughes.

Hull and Wakey are still in SL whatever their finances.   Wakey had quite a good season last year.  Name one SL club that is thriving with the exception of the "usual" suspects:  Saints, Hull, Wigan Wire, Leeds.

Edited by Trojan

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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Love how the usual suspects immediately start blaming P&R.

I guess it's nothing to with spending more than you're getting. 

Why retain or recruit high paid players in a season where they had little chance of bouncing straight back up?

Why weren't the bulk of the contracts cancelled at relegation?

The main issue seems to be none payment of stadium rent, this has not occurred solely since relegation. 

Once again fans are let down by rank bad management.

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Just now, Trojan said:

Hull and Wakey are still in SL whatever their finances.   Wakey had quite a good season last year.  Name one SL club that is thriving with the exception of the "usual" suspects:  Saints, Hull, Wigan Wire.

Well, yes. Wakefield and Hull do seem to be in a far better position being SL clubs rather than ones dealing with the near impossibility of switching between the leagues through promotion and relegation.

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Halifax showed how it should be done last season, recruiting local players. Fev  gambled on big names and it blew up in their face.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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1 minute ago, Trojan said:

Halifax showed how it should be done last season, recruiting local players. Fev  gambled on big names and it blew up in their face.

I wouldn't say it blew up in Fev's face. We finished one point behind Halifax last year and have adjusted the wage budget accordingly this year. I agree recruiting local players is the best in an ideal world but I doubt any team would win anything with players only from their town.

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1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

Well, yes. Wakefield and Hull do seem to be in a far better position being SL clubs rather than ones dealing with the near impossibility of switching between the leagues through promotion and relegation.

Those who opposed P&R on this forum are invariably those who follow teams not confronted with their team perpetually being in the lower tiers.  They claim to care about the game.  Easy in such circumstances.

IMO apart from the clubs named, SL is knackered.  The whole game needs to take a good look at itself. 

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“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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1 minute ago, Trojan said:

Those who opposed P&R on this forum are invariably those who follow teams not confronted with their team perpetually being in the lower tiers.  They claim to care about the game.  Easy in such circumstances.

IMO apart from the clubs named, SL is knackered.  The whole game needs to take a good look at itself. 

perhaps a big part of the reason for that is that we keep insisting clubs in no way set up for SL are put in to SL and our justification for that is some clubs in SL arent good enough so why dont we give everyone the opportunity to be not good enough. Its pretty obvious why results havent been good enough.

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So what happens now if say, Koukash steps in?  Do the remaining games get played and the sheffield game re-scheduled?   Or is that it for this season? 

Edited by Cheshire Setter

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Anyone who thinks P&R is largely to blame for any RL club's financial problems is wrong. It's an anecdotal point, though P or R can often be the trigger that reveals the true problems.

Mismanagement issues and sport-wide lack of finance explain why every one of the many clubs that have run into financial problems before, during, after, during, after and now during P&R.

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https://mobile.twitter.com/M_Shaw1/status/1097945080281878528

A lot can change in 10 months. Was Rule disingenuous or was there just spectacular mismanagement thereafter?

Widnes finished bottom of SL in 2017 and 2018. Relegation shouldn't have been unforeseeable yet it seems that it wasn't planned for.

I'm not expert in finances, but the fact that the last 2 relegated sides have suffered huge financial problems causes alarm bells to ring.

The new TV deal in 2021 is becoming even more important for our future.


Twitter: @TrylineBlog 
Latest Blog: Super League 2019 Review - Your teams highlight and lowlight - https://thetryline.blogspot.com/2019/12/super-league-2019-review-your-teams.html

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49 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

Another great instance of P&R working out.

  Widnes were promoted on the back of a stadium with shiny plastic seats - and not for on-field performances.

Oh,and a rich benefactor.

   This is the second club in successive seasons  who experience financial issues.

   This is the second club that had lots of television revenue courtesy of many seasons in the 'elite' league.

  # New Beginnings - Perhaps the elite owners should be mindful of how difficult it is for the clubs who have not had the benefit

of the money allocated to clubs in Super League - when those who have fail to thrive.


     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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6 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Game called off.

It's incredible that just because they have gone bust, and would have been legally able to revoke their existing contracts, they have only lasted 2 weeks into the new season. 

Can someone please give an accurate assessment of just precisely how this supposed parachute payment works?  Because if there is a parachute payment and if the club could revoke it's contracts then why can Widnes not start to pay off it's debts, like it's rent for the stadium.

What happened to the money Widnes got for it's old stadium?

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17 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Game called off.

Well. Any more games on Sunday? ?

Sad day for me, thought the last admin was bad enough. This situation is terrible

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4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Well. Any more games on Sunday? ?

Sad day for me, thought the last admin was bad enough. This situation is terrible

Well the last time our (black n ) white knight was Steve O'Connor, who vowed to get us back in SL. And he did. He also said it was up to the town to keep us there.....(yet the town never turned up in numbers able to sustain a team spending up to full salary cap and thus compete) ..he's been badmouthed left right and centre now by the fans (who seem to have short memories.) 

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I hope this is a temporary postponement until the club can fulfil their fixtures. Sheffield are accommodating it and aren't making a big deal about it - because they know only too well what it's like to be on and over the brink.


"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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10 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Well. Any more games on Sunday? ?

Sad day for me, thought the last admin was bad enough. This situation is terrible

As a Warrington fan I still see this as sad for widnes, their fan's, staff, players and the game itself.

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