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Widnes problems

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Anyone who thinks P&R is largely to blame for any RL club's financial problems is wrong. It's an anecdotal point, though P or R can often be the trigger that reveals the true problems.

Mismanagement issues and sport-wide lack of finance explain why every one of the many clubs that have run into financial problems before, during, after, during, after and now during P&R.

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https://mobile.twitter.com/M_Shaw1/status/1097945080281878528

A lot can change in 10 months. Was Rule disingenuous or was there just spectacular mismanagement thereafter?

Widnes finished bottom of SL in 2017 and 2018. Relegation shouldn't have been unforeseeable yet it seems that it wasn't planned for.

I'm not expert in finances, but the fact that the last 2 relegated sides have suffered huge financial problems causes alarm bells to ring.

The new TV deal in 2021 is becoming even more important for our future.


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49 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

Another great instance of P&R working out.

  Widnes were promoted on the back of a stadium with shiny plastic seats - and not for on-field performances.

Oh,and a rich benefactor.

   This is the second club in successive seasons  who experience financial issues.

   This is the second club that had lots of television revenue courtesy of many seasons in the 'elite' league.

  # New Beginnings - Perhaps the elite owners should be mindful of how difficult it is for the clubs who have not had the benefit

of the money allocated to clubs in Super League - when those who have fail to thrive.


     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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6 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Game called off.

It's incredible that just because they have gone bust, and would have been legally able to revoke their existing contracts, they have only lasted 2 weeks into the new season. 

Can someone please give an accurate assessment of just precisely how this supposed parachute payment works?  Because if there is a parachute payment and if the club could revoke it's contracts then why can Widnes not start to pay off it's debts, like it's rent for the stadium.

What happened to the money Widnes got for it's old stadium?

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17 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Game called off.

Well. Any more games on Sunday? ?

Sad day for me, thought the last admin was bad enough. This situation is terrible

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4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Well. Any more games on Sunday? ?

Sad day for me, thought the last admin was bad enough. This situation is terrible

Well the last time our (black n ) white knight was Steve O'Connor, who vowed to get us back in SL. And he did. He also said it was up to the town to keep us there.....(yet the town never turned up in numbers able to sustain a team spending up to full salary cap and thus compete) ..he's been badmouthed left right and centre now by the fans (who seem to have short memories.) 

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I hope this is a temporary postponement until the club can fulfil their fixtures. Sheffield are accommodating it and aren't making a big deal about it - because they know only too well what it's like to be on and over the brink.


"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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10 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Well. Any more games on Sunday? ?

Sad day for me, thought the last admin was bad enough. This situation is terrible

As a Warrington fan I still see this as sad for widnes, their fan's, staff, players and the game itself.

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On 2/19/2019 at 8:21 PM, Toby Chopra said:

Yes, seen the statement now. Looks like they've budgeted based on money they were promised which never appeared. 

They're not the first club to make financial commitments based on an investor promise but nothing concrete. We really are going to need some sort of rule to stop this happening. It's an unnecessary crisis. A club of Widnes size should never be bankrupt, even after relegation. 

I don't understand this, how big does a club need to be to avoid going into administration? isn't it more a case of how well you manage your finances with respect to your income and outgoings, and with all due respect to Widnes and other clubs, going down the route of spending money you don't have on the basis of unsecured finances is never a good thing.

This isn't a pop at Widnes but far too many organisations overextend themselves and have no contingency and/or don't stop with the spending when the supposed money they were going to realise still hasn't appeared. Keighley currently are in a similar situation, Bradford before them and indeed Hull FC.

Of course there are some who hold the purse-strings that as seen elsewhere, will rape money from a club/organisation and leave it floundering to the point of extinction and worse pensions being stolen/underfunded on top of creditors being left high and dry!

This certainly shows that unless you have a strong/honest backer and are able to make the numbers work in a limited income business, you are on shaky ground from the off and are always likely to struggle. And from that a lot of the die hard fans need to stop whining about other clubs from outside the heartlands that can and have shown to have far stronger foundations in place and a business model that works (so far).

I hope Widnes can get matters sorted and those owed money paid.

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Sheffield game is off on Sunday


Sex and Money are like Oxygen

They're not important until you're not getting enough.

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Most of the clubs outside the chosen few walk a financial tightrope every season. My lot were doing OK last pre season until a major sponsor went bust just before the season started. It took us all season to get things back on an even keel.

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

perhaps a big part of the reason for that is that we keep insisting clubs in no way set up for SL are put in to SL and our justification for that is some clubs in SL arent good enough so why dont we give everyone the opportunity to be not good enough. Its pretty obvious why results havent been good enough.

If   only clubs who were "set up for SL" were in SL that would leave the "usual suspects" again.  There have to be losers in order for there to be winners.  IMO the improvement in our international side is to some extent due to more competition in the top flight - not as many easy games.  It's ok to support one of the clubs I mentioned and smugly pontificate what should happen to the rest.  What should happen is a level playing field, which we've never had.  Money talks.

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“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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1 hour ago, fevtom said:

I wouldn't say it blew up in Fev's face. We finished one point behind Halifax last year and have adjusted the wage budget accordingly this year. I agree recruiting local players is the best in an ideal world but I doubt any team would win anything with players only from their town.

Fev were very unlucky to lose the services of Ridyard and Holmes.  For me they showed just how good they could be against Hull.  After going 20 points down in 10 minutes they came back and really gave Hull a fright.  But 'Fax recruited locally and played some lovely football.  I was gutted when they beat us a the Shay, but they fully deserved their win.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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42 minutes ago, chuffer said:

Well the last time our (black n ) white knight was Steve O'Connor, who vowed to get us back in SL. And he did. He also said it was up to the town to keep us there.....(yet the town never turned up in numbers able to sustain a team spending up to full salary cap and thus compete) ..he's been badmouthed left right and centre now by the fans (who seem to have short memories.) 

It’s more the people he appointed to run the club in his absence that have been the issue to be fair

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4 hours ago, Bomb Jack said:

I was born in, and live in Runcorn. I started to watch Widnes as a child, who went with his Dad and Uncles/Cousins. The ground is approx. a 6 minute drive from where I live.

There used to be around 10-15 of us who went, now there are just 2 left.

If someone buys Widnes, and moves it lock, stock, and barrel to Liverpool, there's no way I'd continue supporting them, and I'd guess 95% of Widnes fans will say the same.

If I can ask, why did the others stop going?

Would it possibly be that they got too old, or would they be younger than that and some other reason be behind it?

Edited by Big Picture

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14 minutes ago, Spidey said:

It’s more the people he appointed to run the club in his absence that have been the issue to be fair

indeed....it's whoever has not been paying the council the rent for the ground use that needs stringing up

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2 hours ago, Trojan said:

Exeter Chiefs were promoted to Union's top flight in 2010 and are now fairly dominant.  They are not one of the "traditional" top drawer clubs like Bath, Leicester, Wasps etc.

yes absolutely Exeter have come up and spent wisely and done well etc.. but we were talking about teams getting relegated not promoted. If you get promoted and are wise you can do really well.. but with that there are equally those that yo yo (Leeds/Yorkshire, London Irish) or get promoted for one season and go bust (london welsh) or then just slip back and dont really ever want to go up again.. Rotherham

Its not the promotion thats the issues its the relegation down to a league that has a lot less funding and having to quickly re align your teams etc.. 

If one of the big clubs went down they would have a year or so of "we'll spend to get back out".. a bit like London Irish staying pro and knowing they will walk the league and that has happened in League too but if a smaller team that cannot do that goes down then they are in all sorts of trouble and that has been the case for the last 2.. 

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Really sorry to hear this and my heart goes out to Widnes fans at this juncture, and I hope it turns out well at the end.

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At least we got to see Gelling in a Widnes shirt. If we're lucky we end up with a squad of young lads and a couple of average old heads. 

We used to be a big club, years ago. Whether we ever get back to those days is in the lap of the gods.

I'm fed up!!

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1 minute ago, doc said:

At least we got to see Gelling in a Widnes shirt. If we're lucky we end up with a squad of young lads and a couple of average old heads. 

We used to be a big club, years ago. Whether we ever get back to those days is in the lap of the gods.

I'm fed up!!

A 12-point deduction would seem to put them into a death-spiral. Have other clubs managed to survive this?

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