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John Drake

5 Mar: SL: Leeds Rhinos v Toronto Wolfpack KO 7.45pm (TV)

Who will win?  

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  1. 1. Who will win?

    • Leeds Rhinos
      36
    • Toronto Wolfpack
      16

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  • Poll closed on 05/03/20 at 19:45

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Unfortunately for the wolfpack, Super league isn't as easy as L1 or the Champ but they have come up all cocky on the back of 3 successful unchallenged seasons with more or less the same squad playing the same gameplan, it's been a big wake up call for the boys from Cana-manchester

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Toronto lost. 

Was it the worst loss in Superleague ever?

Will it be the worst defeat of the season?

No.


Ron Banks

Bears and Barrow

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13 minutes ago, Bearman said:

 

Will it be the worst defeat of the season?

No.

True.   Who do you reckon will be the 1st team to put 70 past them?

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Wow, just saw the game on delay. No doubt, we are a really bad Rugby League team. I thought we'd lose most games, but we look so old and slow. How did we win here in the Super 8s two seasons ago? The stars must have been aligned.

I really can't see how the pack can stay up. The amount of tackling they have to do each week is insane and unsustainable. The truth is that without a supply of quality youth players being developed, the only way that TWP can compete is by buying success (which needs a higher salary cap). 

The early talk of developing/converting players is coming home to roost.

Oh well. I'll keep supporting them to the end.

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On another note, although it would make no difference to the game, and maybe (for my sins) I watch too much RU, but how was the Leeds player not sent off for tackling the player in the air without even contesting for the ball in the first half? Penalty only! There is a huge lack of care for player well being.

Edited by ojx

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We will get them next time.

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There are some truly bizarre opinions on this situation.

’you can’t buy a team’ - well you can and it’s happened successfully numerous times in various sports. TW problem is they literally couldn’t buy a team due to the salary cap. Not to mention most of the team played last year.

’Could have bought 3 players instead of SBW’ - time and again this has to be explained. He costs £150k. You could get one good player for that or maybe a good one and an average one. Signing one of the best forwards ever to play the game to boost a weak pack is one of the smarter things they’ve done.

’players aren’t good enough’ true to an extent but that squad isn’t that bad and London showed what is actually possible if other things are in place. 

its pretty obvious what the problems are:

- Salary Cap and Noble’s terrible management of the finances signing decent players on stupid money just to get out of the championship. No surprise Noble is now blaming other factors when it’s almost entirely his fault.

- lack of squad, especially in the middle. I suspect they knew this but can’t do anything due to the problem above. They desperately need good middles and a good half. Idiots saying the SBW money could sign 3 players are saying they should have bought 3 £50k players. People like Springer and Mullalley are £50k standard players, they already have those. Trouble is they’re probably paying them double that - point 1 again. Lack of academy/reserves also contributes as discussed at length.

- Fixture list. For the last few seasons we’ve had the mouth breathers saying how they had an unfair advantage with blocks of fixtures away then at home. It’s not fair, wah, wah. Anyone sensible could see how having so many away fixtures to start would be a potential disaster. Fine when winning easily but sport is about confidence and momentum, they’ve now got zero of each thanks to a really tough start, no support behind them and increasingly bad results. By the time they play at home they will be so down it might not be possible to get them off the floor.

- Lastly, their coach is awful, arrogant and downright weird. The squad he had at Leeds masked a lot of inadequacies and now he’s getting brutally exposed. They aren’t going to turn this around with him in charge and his empty philosophical statements.

At this point I think they need to sack McDermott, try and get Lussick and Mcrone to retire to free up cap space and see if they can get some NRL players in. No doubt they’ll be better at home but this is a small competitive league so it’s going to be hard to pull back. I can’t see where they’ll get 10 wins from.

What a shame it is too. You can pump all the money and razzmatazz into rugby league but that amateurish business acumen and management will always be there. Another wasted opportunity for the sport on its way out of the door.

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33 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

There are some truly bizarre opinions on this situation.

’you can’t buy a team’ - well you can and it’s happened successfully numerous times in various sports. TW problem is they literally couldn’t buy a team due to the salary cap. Not to mention most of the team played last year.

’Could have bought 3 players instead of SBW’ - time and again this has to be explained. He costs £150k. You could get one good player for that or maybe a good one and an average one. Signing one of the best forwards ever to play the game to boost a weak pack is one of the smarter things they’ve done.

’players aren’t good enough’ true to an extent but that squad isn’t that bad and London showed what is actually possible if other things are in place. 

its pretty obvious what the problems are:

- Salary Cap and Noble’s terrible management of the finances signing decent players on stupid money just to get out of the championship. No surprise Noble is now blaming other factors when it’s almost entirely his fault.

- lack of squad, especially in the middle. I suspect they knew this but can’t do anything due to the problem above. They desperately need good middles and a good half. Idiots saying the SBW money could sign 3 players are saying they should have bought 3 £50k players. People like Springer and Mullalley are £50k standard players, they already have those. Trouble is they’re probably paying them double that - point 1 again. Lack of academy/reserves also contributes as discussed at length.

- Fixture list. For the last few seasons we’ve had the mouth breathers saying how they had an unfair advantage with blocks of fixtures away then at home. It’s not fair, wah, wah. Anyone sensible could see how having so many away fixtures to start would be a potential disaster. Fine when winning easily but sport is about confidence and momentum, they’ve now got zero of each thanks to a really tough start, no support behind them and increasingly bad results. By the time they play at home they will be so down it might not be possible to get them off the floor.

- Lastly, their coach is awful, arrogant and downright weird. The squad he had at Leeds masked a lot of inadequacies and now he’s getting brutally exposed. They aren’t going to turn this around with him in charge and his empty philosophical statements.

At this point I think they need to sack McDermott, try and get Lussick and Mcrone to retire to free up cap space and see if they can get some NRL players in. No doubt they’ll be better at home but this is a small competitive league so it’s going to be hard to pull back. I can’t see where they’ll get 10 wins from.

What a shame it is too. You can pump all the money and razzmatazz into rugby league but that amateurish business acumen and management will always be there. Another wasted opportunity for the sport on its way out of the door.

How do players being made to retire clear cap space? They already on the cap for this season.

We can all make a mockery of the situation. But at the end of the day the game needs money.

Never bite the hand that feed. That’s open to opinion.

Edited by SL17

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2 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

There are some truly bizarre opinions on this situation.

’you can’t buy a team’ - well you can and it’s happened successfully numerous times in various sports. TW problem is they literally couldn’t buy a team due to the salary cap. Not to mention most of the team played last year.

’Could have bought 3 players instead of SBW’ - time and again this has to be explained. He costs £150k. You could get one good player for that or maybe a good one and an average one. Signing one of the best forwards ever to play the game to boost a weak pack is one of the smarter things they’ve done.

’players aren’t good enough’ true to an extent but that squad isn’t that bad and London showed what is actually possible if other things are in place. 

its pretty obvious what the problems are:

- Salary Cap and Noble’s terrible management of the finances signing decent players on stupid money just to get out of the championship. No surprise Noble is now blaming other factors when it’s almost entirely his fault.

- lack of squad, especially in the middle. I suspect they knew this but can’t do anything due to the problem above. They desperately need good middles and a good half. Idiots saying the SBW money could sign 3 players are saying they should have bought 3 £50k players. People like Springer and Mullalley are £50k standard players, they already have those. Trouble is they’re probably paying them double that - point 1 again. Lack of academy/reserves also contributes as discussed at length.

- Fixture list. For the last few seasons we’ve had the mouth breathers saying how they had an unfair advantage with blocks of fixtures away then at home. It’s not fair, wah, wah. Anyone sensible could see how having so many away fixtures to start would be a potential disaster. Fine when winning easily but sport is about confidence and momentum, they’ve now got zero of each thanks to a really tough start, no support behind them and increasingly bad results. By the time they play at home they will be so down it might not be possible to get them off the floor.

- Lastly, their coach is awful, arrogant and downright weird. The squad he had at Leeds masked a lot of inadequacies and now he’s getting brutally exposed. They aren’t going to turn this around with him in charge and his empty philosophical statements.

At this point I think they need to sack McDermott, try and get Lussick and Mcrone to retire to free up cap space and see if they can get some NRL players in. No doubt they’ll be better at home but this is a small competitive league so it’s going to be hard to pull back. I can’t see where they’ll get 10 wins from.

What a shame it is too. You can pump all the money and razzmatazz into rugby league but that amateurish business acumen and management will always be there. Another wasted opportunity for the sport on its way out of the door.

Thanks for the great post. I agree with most of it.

Toronto spent what they had to to get promoted. They lost the MPG against London, and and then were losing with 20 mins to go against Fev the following year. They payed enough to "just" get promoted. Comparing their salary cap management to established SL teams is somewhat disingenuous. 

I thought Toronto would do poorly, but never thought they would be this bad. In the Toronto sports market, people go for the occasion. Hopefully their home games will be more competitive.

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8 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Is it Sinfield who hires and fires and not Agar? 

What else does he do? (serious question) 

Sinfield is responsible for player recruitment, retention and progression pathways. 

Agar will no doubt be a "voice in the room" but the decision lies with Sinfield. 

Gary Hetherington was previously the final say on much of Leeds' player recruitment prior to KS arriving, but I dare say that Hetherington will be enjoying retirement shortly, with Sinfield being primed to take over that side of his role. 

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5 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

’Could have bought 3 players instead of SBW’ - time and again this has to be explained. He costs £150k. You could get one good player for that or maybe a good one and an average one. Signing one of the best forwards ever to play the game to boost a weak pack is one of the smarter things they’ve done.’

Yes, £150k will only get 1 good player. However Toronto already had 2 marquee players so the signing also caused one of those salaries to go ‘on cap’ thus reducing the cap space available by whatever they are earning over £150k as well - if they were on £275k say, that would be a cap loss of 150+125 = 275k. His signing also meant that Toronto went over the overseas quota which triggered the Stanley fiasco and meant starting the season 1 good player down (a massive percentage of their good player pool) to gain a guy who hadn’t played the game for 5 years.

Noble is complicit in this but I doubt that he was the one pushing to sign SBW, it smacks of being ‘marketing’ driven from the top.

On a plus note, maybe SBW will turn good given he has some skin in TWP succeeding. However he can’t win games single handedly.

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9 hours ago, Eddie said:

I’m not talking about just the money, it’s the treatment they’ve received such as not being told they could get promoted until after they’d won the GF. North American expansion if done properly could be a gift, but the SL clubs are too parochial to see it and certainly too selfish to help it. 

So, what could they have done differently that would have put them in a better position?

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Well, Leeds were decent and at times very entertaining, TWP - well, pretty embarrassing to be fair.

Things need to change, but who or what? 

 

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5 hours ago, SL17 said:

How do players being made to retire clear cap space? They already on the cap for this season.

We can all make a mockery of the situation. But at the end of the day the game needs money.

Never bite the hand that feed. That’s open to opinion.

I believe it's a live or real time cap as in at any given point in time an auditor can examine the Contracts of all the players registered at a Club, and then place the top 25 earners into a Salary Cap relevant file, then check the 17 man team lists submitted at each salary cap relevant match played up to that point in time and find out which registered players (including those on loan) have played in at least one of those matches, these players are then also placed in the same salary cap relevant file (even though they are not in the top 25 earners) 

The value of all those players within that file are then added together to come up with a total if it's over £2.1m then the auditor can look at dispensations to reduce it to £2.1m, starting with identifying 2 x Marquee Players whose wages will be lowered to £150k each for cap purposes etc etc. 

The easy solution to getting under the cap or creating cap space is to deregister players with the RFL. To do that, unless the player has breached the terms and conditions of his contract then they would need to retire the player or buy them out of their contract. To the players satisfaction. 

Edited by Smudger06

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25 minutes ago, Wildcat said:

Well, Leeds were decent and at times very entertaining, TWP - well, pretty embarrassing to be fair.

Things need to change, but who or what? 

 

Have you not read the multiple chihuahua threads.Raise the salary cap to suit them,give the every dispensation they want.Simple really.

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I would have thought any regular R.L. supporter could have seen before the season started that,with this pack,who are all just about Championship standard,that Toronto were going to get a good few hidings in S.L. Forget the "we will beat them at home in Toronto". No, they will not. The only hope they have is beating H.K.R , 3 times I believe, Salford, Wakey,2 Salford and Huddersfield. Personally I think they will be lucky to win 4 games. Appalingly management behind the scenes has got them into this situation. It is no use looking and blaming everybody else,it is their own doing.

I genuinely feel sorry for the genuine supporters of the club having to watch their team roll over and surrender. McDermott is even convinced"they are alright" he must have been watching different games to me this season then.He certainly looked a very worried man in the interview after to me.Maybe he knows something we do not.

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4 minutes ago, fairfolly said:

I would have thought any regular R.L. supporter could have seen before the season started that,with this pack,who are all just about Championship standard,that Toronto were going to get a good few hidings in S.L. Forget the "we will beat them at home in Toronto". No, they will not. The only hope they have is beating H.K.R , 3 times I believe, Salford, Wakey,2 Salford and Huddersfield. Personally I think they will be lucky to win 4 games. Appalingly management behind the scenes has got them into this situation. It is no use looking and blaming everybody else,it is their own doing.

I genuinely feel sorry for the genuine supporters of the club having to watch their team roll over and surrender. McDermott is even convinced"they are alright" he must have been watching different games to me this season then.He certainly looked a very worried man in the interview after to me.Maybe he knows something we do not.

One hope for them regarding their home games is that some teams may not take a full strength squad over, like St Helens did last season when away to London.

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I know there's a few sticking their boot in on Toronto in this thread, but you have to give Leeds some credit.

A very professional performance and they look like a team who will do very well this year. A very well balanced team and there younger players are really showing promise. 

Toronto's next two fixtures in my opinion are winnable. 


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3 minutes ago, Chris Taylor said:

I know there's a few sticking their boot in on Toronto in this thread, but you have to give Leeds some credit.

A very professional performance and they look like a team who will do very well this year. A very well balanced team and there younger players are really showing promise. 

Toronto's next two fixtures in my opinion are winnable. 

' sticking their boot in ' ? , Not really , just giving honest opinions really , yes I do know some who are revelling in the misfortunes , I will no doubt hear some of that in the north stand at Leigh on Sunday , but on here ? No , not really 

And yes Leeds were good , despite still getting away with numerous forward passes , and most importantly Briscoes knock on at the start , if that was spotted , we would have seen a different game 

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TWP have horribly wasted their marquee spots and have what I consider to be a poor coach in charge.

The result is unfrotunately the farce we're seeing now.

I'm sure they'll go better back on home soil but that was an embarrassment and the weather saved them from a similar scoreline last week against Saints when they were also dreadful, in a horribly embarrassing "home" game event for which they also deserve the blame.

Nothing I have seen has given me cause to change my initial view that this whole experiment is more than a bit of a joke.

Edited by FearTheVee
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24 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

' sticking their boot in ' ? , Not really , just giving honest opinions really , yes I do know some who are revelling in the misfortunes , I will no doubt hear some of that in the north stand at Leigh on Sunday , but on here ? No , not really 

And yes Leeds were good , despite still getting away with numerous forward passes , and most importantly Briscoes knock on at the start , if that was spotted , we would have seen a different game 

Then right on cue comes "fear the V"

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