5 Mar: SL: Leeds Rhinos v Toronto Wolfpack KO 7.45pm (TV)

[Tex Evans Thigh 1,076]

4 hours ago, TBone said:

Yes, £150k will only get 1 good player. However Toronto already had 2 marquee players so the signing also caused one of those salaries to go ‘on cap’ thus reducing the cap space available by whatever they are earning over £150k as well - if they were on £275k say, that would be a cap loss of 150+125 = 275k. His signing also meant that Toronto went over the overseas quota which triggered the Stanley fiasco and meant starting the season 1 good player down (a massive percentage of their good player pool) to gain a guy who hadn’t played the game for 5 years.

Noble is complicit in this but I doubt that he was the one pushing to sign SBW, it smacks of being ‘marketing’ driven from the top.

On a plus note, maybe SBW will turn good given he has some skin in TWP succeeding. However he can’t win games single handedly.

I’m well aware of that, that was my point. Lussick is now costing $400k rather than $150k. SBW isn’t the problem, you could have signed Taumalolo and you’d be in the same position. It’s not the $150k that’s the issue, it’s the overspending elsewhere.

[Kayakman 5,342]

Is it not possible that Toronto is just having a rough stretch, willk turn it all around, and then move onto a winning season?   

The rumours of our demise have been greatly exaggerated"- anybody ever heard that before?

[Tex Evans Thigh 1,076]

3 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Hard to disagree with most of this. I certainly think the buck should stop with Vickers (surprise surprise) and Noble. The only thing i slightly disagree with is your criticism of McDermott. As a Leeds fan, I saw the good and bad times. In general, I do think McDermott is a good coach, but I agree that sometimes his arrogance prevents him from seeing the flaws. 

If they bring back the likes of Mellor, Lussick, Singleton, Cunningham, Stanley and manage to offload Wheeler, Worthington to bring a couple of SL quality players then I think they'll have enough to stay up. It's certainly a challenge for McDermott though, and it will be interesting to see how he fares. At the moment, I think he's right in downplaying the negativity surrounding them. He needs to keep positivity in the bubble of the group

Some big ifs there. Gaz O’Brien was Toronto’s best player last year. In fact the Championship’s best player. Big Bri thought it was a good idea to drop him to start SL and put his reserve half back at fb. One thing Toronto did have coming in was some continuity with their squad, so he could have had virtually the same line up that got them up. He decided to mix it up for some reason.

his record at Leeds is hard to argue with so he must have some qualities but I don’t think he’s the man for the job here.

[TBone 166]

8 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

I’m well aware of that, that was my point. Lussick is now costing $400k rather than $150k. SBW isn’t the problem, you could have signed Taumalolo and you’d be in the same position. It’s not the $150k that’s the issue, it’s the overspending elsewhere.

But at the point prior to signing SBW they had cap space! They signed him knowing that it would cause problems, problems that they couldn't easily fix after the'd put in their initial cap assessment on Nov 1st.

[Tex Evans Thigh 1,076]

1 hour ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

Do you think it is "smart" when,  for example, for the money they are actually paying SBW they could have had Jason Taumalolo, Cameron Smith (the Melbourne one), James Tedesco , Roger Tuivasa-Sheck and Joseph Manu all together?

He doesn't "cost"  £150k, he has a cap value of £150K, as does Ricky Leutele (£400k real cost). He "costs" £2.6 million! The SBW signing also meant that Darcy Lussick , a man who has not yet started a game, is now (really) costing TW over £200,000 on the cap.

Is that smart?

Do you think paying a 35 year old man who last played RL six years ago, has a history of injury problems  and has played a sport requiring different approaches and fitness for the last 6 years FIVE TIMES as much any Rugby League player in history has ever been paid, paying him more than other clubs entire 30 man squads, is smart?

I think it is infinitely stupid and naive but each to their own.

Do you reckon David Argyle is nodding along whilst men earning 2% of that SBW salary are scoring tries for fun against his team and saying "Wow what great value I am getting here!!!!,  we are so smart here at the bottom of the table win-less..."?

Mr Argyle is paying around £5 million in salaries and getting a value of around 20% of that, is that smart?

 

 

I think you’re missing the point spectacularly. I’m not commenting on the smartness of paying $5m for SBW, I don’t care and it has no impact on the squad. One of the key problems is cap spend. He costs $150k on the cap. The problem, as you highlight, is poor cap management so now Lussick costs a fortune on the cap, which is the only thing that matters when a billionaire is funding it, not actual spend.

If he wants to pay SBW ridiculous amounts outside the cap that’s his problem and has nothing to do with the smartness of apportioning $150k of cap space to one of the best and most marketable players of all time.

[Tex Evans Thigh 1,076]

3 minutes ago, TBone said:

But at the point prior to signing SBW they had cap space! They signed him knowing that it would cause problems, problems that they couldn't easily fix after the'd put in their initial cap assessment on Nov 1st.

They had 150k of space. Who else would you have signed?

[TBone 166]

5 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

They had 150k of space. Who else would you have signed?

That cannot be right because they had to move a marquee signing into the cap so they must've been able to accommodate over 150k (there is no point in counting a 150k cap value as a marquee). So the space they had is at least what that players full cap value is.

Edited March 6 by TBone

[GUBRATS 4,171]

3 hours ago, terrywebbisgod said:

If the knock on had been given,the chihuahuas would have won by 50 in Starbugs world.

He didn't add the obligatory "the RFL love Leeds" line. 

Given my username Terry  I am obviously familiar with the concept of an infinite number of other ' alternate realities '

Somewhere out ' there ' there is a Toronto Wolfpack sitting at the top of SL unbeaten after 6 games , you know it is so , coached by ' Ace ' McDermott

[meast 1,562]

13 hours ago, daz39 said:

Unfortunately for the wolfpack, Super league isn't as easy as L1 or the Champ but they have come up all cocky on the back of 3 successful unchallenged seasons with more or less the same squad playing the same gameplan, it's been a big wake up call for the boys from Cana-manchester

Leigh were exactly the same, the cockiness and condescensing stuff from a lot of their fans was embarrassing.

[GUBRATS 4,171]

2 hours ago, Kenilworth Tiger said:

I think leeds got beaten 66-10 almost 3 yrs ago to the day - can;t remember who beat them though......

I remember that , it brought back a memory from the past , 2005 when stood next to a certain Gary Hetherington watching CAS lose to Whitehaven at the ' rec ' , when after getting a similar Hull FC score against Leigh in a text from his missus he remarked , " Leigh are a disgrace to SL " , tosser 

[Tex Evans Thigh 1,076]

8 minutes ago, TBone said:

That cannot be right because they had to move a marquee signing into the cap so they must've been able to accommodate over 150k (there is no point in counting a 150k cap value as a marquee). So the space they had is at least what that players full cap value is.

Ok, who would you have signed that would have kept Lussick a marquee player? Maybe they could have got 2 decent players.

[Kayakman 5,342]

9 minutes ago, meast said:

Leigh were exactly the same, the cockiness and condescensing stuff from a lot of their fans was embarrassing.

Why do you hate Leigh and Toronto so much?

[GUBRATS 4,171]

9 minutes ago, meast said:

Leigh were exactly the same, the cockiness and condescensing stuff from a lot of their fans was embarrassing.

Yes but we beat you , and Wire , and Saints , and Wigan and Hull , lost by 3 to Leeds after a dropped pass 3 yards out from their line , we suffered one big defeat to CAS , who did the same to nearly everbody that year 

[meast 1,562]

2 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Why do you hate Leigh and Toronto so much?

I don't hate anyone, well apart from my ex wife

[fieldofclothofgold 498]

2 hours ago, Kenilworth Tiger said:

I think leeds got beaten 66-10 almost 3 yrs ago to the day - can;t remember who beat them though......

and of course you didn't get 70 did you , remember that one 

[Robin Evans 3,954]

8 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Why do you hate Leigh and Toronto so much?

Hatred is such a wasteful emotion.

 

[Wildcat 297]

8 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Hatred is such a wasteful emotion.

 

Correct, and no one hates TWP either. I'm pretty sure of that. 

[Kenilworth Tiger 1,528]

13 minutes ago, fieldofclothofgold said:

and of course you didn't get 70 did you , remember that one 

I've really upset you haven't I 

[terrywebbisgod 1,923]

7 minutes ago, Wildcat said:

Correct, and no one hates TWP either. I'm pretty sure of that. 

Apparently the RFL hate TWP hence the abysmal start to their season.

[GUBRATS 4,171]

7 minutes ago, Wildcat said:

Correct, and no one hates TWP either. I'm pretty sure of that. 

Come and have a listen round the North stand at the LSV on Sunday ?

[TBone 166]

21 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Ok, who would you have signed that would have kept Lussick a marquee player? Maybe they could have got 2 decent players.

I have no idea which players were available when they were doing their planning for the season (or maybe when someone had the bright idea of signing SBW,). And, frankly, I can't be bothered looking too hard.

The problem boils down to mounting a successful campaign to get into SL as quickly as possible (no matter the cost?) without, seemingly, also having a plan to make sure that you stay there.

[GUBRATS 4,171]

We all have Leeds though

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And Wigan 

[Wildcat 297]

4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

We all have Leeds though

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And Wigan 

But do you hate them? 

[Dunbar 8,673]

21 hours ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

Do you think it is "smart" when,  for example, for the money they are actually paying SBW they could have had Jason Taumalolo, Cameron Smith (the Melbourne one), James Tedesco , Roger Tuivasa-Sheck and Joseph Manu all together?

I think it is debatable whether any club could get all these players for £2.6m a year (£520k each). But for a second, let's assume they could.

What is true though is that if only two of them could be classified as marquee players (£300k) then the others will be full price on the cap which is £1.56M plus the £300k which totals £1.86M cap for 5 players. 

This leaves £240k for the rest of the squad which for 20 players is about £12k each.

Edited March 7 by Dunbar

[Robin Evans 3,954]

13 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Come and have a listen round the North stand at the LSV on Sunday ?

Whereas at post office road we are a fully inclusive bunch. Happy to share a table with our new friends from across the water in a convivial atmosphere nurturing the growth of our sport with open arms in the spirit of international friendship.