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Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)


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22 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

They probably thought; he's an ex-politician, they are all corrupt so he'll do whatever we tell him to do.

 

They should have thought why he couldn't get a job in politics anymore. 

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My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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7 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Suggestion 

We postpone the RLWC till next year 

We play it in July 2022 , the Australians take a mid season break to send the various teams over here 

We do the same with SL and the Championship 

Problem solved 😉

Works for me, although prefer whenever the SOO is scheduled. Unfortunately July 2022 is mid winter in Australia so peak Covid time. The rest of the Western world will be pretty much BAU by then but they're going to be in total lockdown with all airports shut due Phil Gould's theory of "leaving Australia is certain death" being official government policy.

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39 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So tell me , how do you convert St Helens to Liverpool in RL ?

Just rename the team Liverpool St Helens. Do the same with Manchester Wiganers and Manchester Salforders and, yeah, it's not going to work, is it?

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16 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

Postponing the RLWC will bring about the end of the world as we know it. Millions of fluffy kittens will die. It has to be in 2021.

No it wont. The loss of revenue to the IRL will be a massive blow to any serious hope of proper international development by emerging nations though.

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Troy Grant comes across like a good person from what I have heard from him so far. 

I hope he sticks around & keeps on fighting the good fight.

The shock & horror of it all to the NRL/ARL plotters that he didn't back there call.

I mean the money already spent to them must of been like Monopoly Money & they can just spend more & more of it like drunken sailors next year.

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1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes , yes , yes and yes

I sincerely thank you for that.

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

But , you've never offered a sensible alternative 

The alternative I've offered is entirely sensible.  Like any alternative it would have to overcome all those obstacles which we both recognize, but with the right plan, the right strategy and the right backing I have no doubt that it could.  And it has the advantage that it would leave the current structure more or less as it is while a new organization takes over the responsibility of lifting the game's profile and providing somewhere for players from places other than England and those antipodean countries to play as full time pros in the numbers needed for northern hemisphere Internationals to be the sort of big, competitive events we'd all love to see.  And should it succeed it would certainly put the Aussies in their place too.

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2 hours ago, RayCee said:

Grant was given a job to promote international RL. He feels the current actions of the ARLC and NRL is working against international RL's interests. It is his responsibility to say so and call out any who are undermining what he's trying to achieve. Even if it involves those who got him the job. 

The fact that a journalist openly says Grant should work against what he was employed to do says much about the world they live in. What is right and fair isn't part of that. 

Precisely.

Grant was appointed to do a job … the fact he's doing that job (what he is paid to do), and not doing the ARLC/NRL's bidding as they expect him to do, is what's got their kickers in a twist.

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3 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

Absolutely disgraceful article that. When the history of the 2021 WC is written, Grant certainly won't be marked down as one of the villains.

Blokes like Grant restore my faith in human nature.

We`ve had similar situations over here with High Court appointees, and I know they`ve had the same in the U.S.

 We`ve had people appointed by conservative Govt`s because of their hard right conservative values, who once on the bench have proved themselves far more open-minded about issues than their appointers would have liked or certainly expected.

Grant has shown himself to be of a similar independent minded ilk, he actually wants to do his job for everyone, not just those who appointed him. As I said, that sort of thing helps restore a little bit of my faith in human nature.

Bravo, I say, maybe there is hope yet.

p.s. if there ever was a journalist with a sniveling insinuating manner, who would never dare question his pay masters, it would be one Daniel Weidler. A toadying sycophant who would put his career ahead of the truth every day of the week. I just wish the #### read this.

 

Edited by The Rocket
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6 hours ago, DC77 said:

 My own team, Liverpool FC, they might be based in Liverpool and have a core Liverpool (scouse) identity but anyone around the world can identify with the club. One of the best renditions of the club’s anthem “You'll Never Walk Alone” was by 95k Aussies at the MCG. You can’t really have this connection with a parochial team unless you are from the same town/have a family connection.

Went to that game and what an incredible experience it was. My wife's dad( killed as a RAF pilot in the war) was a Liverpool fan and I wanted to see Steve Gerrard play. Only a friendly against Melbourne Victory but such an atmosphere generated by the massive crowd.

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If there was ever a time to have a World Cup (and showcase Rugby League).

Sprinkboks v British and Irish Lions Test series has been ugly and deflating (smh.com.au)

The first two British and Irish Lions Tests in South Africa have been eyesores, bad-tempered and sadly lacking in inspiration. The amount of yelling, from both sides, at referee Ben O’Keeffe during the second Test was embarrassing, and will undoubtedly filter down to the amateur level, where there is already pressure on referee numbers.

It has always been thus, especially in a highly technical game such as rugby. The ‘rub of the green’ principle has governed conduct for many years, but it is coming apart at the seams in South Africa.

The so-called `rub of the green` principle is one of the reasons why I said twenty years ago union wouldn`t take-over in Oz, people ultimately do not want games decided by referees, especially when they have absolutely no idea what the penalty was for and that it could have been given to either side any way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

Just rename the team Liverpool St Helens. 

Liverpool St Helens are an (historically quite good but anyway still existing and presumably owning the name) RU club.

Edited by iffleyox
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8 hours ago, Big Picture said:

My viewpoint isn't negative, it's realistic and it's based on the facts as they are in the real world.  I understand well what the game is up against and I know that it doesn't presently have an answer to that.

I have no snobbery about where the game is played, I simply recognize how that could reinforce the negative stereotypes about the game in the eyes of outsiders.  A while back on another thread I asked @Oldbearhow the Geordies viewed the game when he still lived over there and his reply was that they saw it as "decidedly downmarket".

I wasn't really surprised by that, I've previously observed that same sort of attitude among Torontonians who've come to look down on the CFL because smallish places like Hamilton and Regina have teams in that league and they don't think such places belong in the same league as Toronto, so it's not difficult to put 2 and 2 together.

Whether or not you call the idea that prospective sponsors see the game as decidedly downmarket too based on where it's played snobbery, it's still part of the what game is up against in the UK.  Sponsors want audience reach for their money, so the smaller the audience reach a sport has the less it's going to be worth to a sponsor and that's just how it is.

We both know that the game has most often been started up in new places by expats from the regions where it's historically been played, though there are occasional exceptions such as Romeo Monteith.  I know well that they all struggle to gain sponsorship, the Canadian organization headed by Dave Silcock had no sponsors at all when I was involved with them years ago, Dave and his three partners paid most of the expenses out of their own pockets.  I think that @yantocould probably describe similar difficulties in the Netherlands.

Yes I did ask you how the world cup might double or triple the number of players in the world, and though I can see that you believe that I also see you don't have any answer to give me about how it might happen.  It's a belief not supported by objective facts.

Sorry but the idea that Samoa might thrash France in RU is completely fanciful considering how many more top level pro players France can call upon in that sport.  According to Wikipedia they're played four times and France has won all four by a combined score of 156-49, an average winning margin of just under 27 points.  Their last match in 2016 ended 52-8 for France.

On the subject of how results like Samoa thrashing France could inhibit growth, I'll share a response I received years ago on a Canadian gridiron forum to my suggestion that the way ahead for the CFL (which was teetering on the brink at the time) was to Canadianize their game and open an International dimension through World Cups and the like by adopting RL.  One respondent asked, "And just who would we play, New Zealand?"

We can be sure that someone who doesn't rate NZ sure wouldn't be very impressed with a sport where tiny Samoa can thrash France.  No doubt that sort of viewpoint exists in other countries too just as it does over here.  Just how the likes of that other Canadian would view a tournament with several such little countries in its quarter-finals I'd hate to think.

However successful the World Cup could be, it won't change any of those fundamentals about the game and that's why the idea that all by itself it could spark a turnaround is fanciful.

What you've done is simply restate your own personal opinion based on comments made by people you've met along the way.

I have no doubt, that your identification with those comments and the confirmation those opinions provided you was heavily biased by your already ingrained prejudices. This is mere self-confirmation-bias.

You persist in putting forward these stories as ''evidence'' to support your negative view of the game. You have no facts to back up your opinions. For every person you've met who thinks the games a dud, I can offer someone thrilling to the excitement of playing or watching our game. They keep popping up spontaneously all over the globe.

Simply put, the difference between us, is I believe in the inherent appeal of the game to newcomers and you don't.

I note, once again, you have still not offered even a single idea as to how the game can move forward, here or the world over.

Finally, your last comment indicates your over-riding attitude which is that even if this was to become the best World Cup we've ever had, it is in reality pointless, because it couldn't spark a turnaround in the games fortunes.

You (once again) ignore my central point, which is that over time, things don't stay the same. They change. So we can either make efforts to improve our lot in the world, or stand idly by and allow the game to atrophy, shrugging our shoulders and just accepting that ''our belief in the game's potential is mere fancy''.

It's clear that you fall into the latter group and I'm firmly in the former.

Your only strategy consists of waiting until a previously unidentified cabal of billionaires come forward to take the game by the scruff of the neck and transform it into the NFL overnight. Otherwise it's pointless doing anything. Your incessant diatribe is tantamount to trolling and I believe may adversely affect other's hopes for the game (perhaps that is your fondest wish?)

All I ask (my fondest wish) is that you shut up, step aside and let the ''doers'' come through.

 

Edited by fighting irish
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7 hours ago, DC77 said:

I think you have a valid point here in regards to the locations of teams. RL is seen as a regional sport and almost detached from those outside it. There’s not much crossover. While at University I lived in Liverpool (also stayed in Manchester) and there was pretty much zero RL presence in either. Some Aussies have posted on here previously their bewilderment at how this can be given the close proximity of these northern cities to RL towns. Professor Tony Collins in his RL podcast has talked about going a few miles outside a RL town and finding no RL interest. England is quite unique (I think) in that there are so many completely distinct regional accents, which reflects how different each area is. They have their own mini cultures which makes it extra difficult for what is seen as a regional sport like RL to break through. 

I think there are two main reasons an individual follows a sport. A.You have a team in it. B.You have an interest in a player. It’s hard to follow a team in RL as they are so parochial. They are entrenched in their own towns (alluding to what I said previously that outsiders (even in neighbouring cities) feel detached from them). This is completely different with major sports teams (Premier League clubs, Barca, Real Madrid, AC Milan etc., or NFL teams) in that they are much more international/accessible. My own team, Liverpool FC, they might be based in Liverpool and have a core Liverpool (scouse) identity but anyone around the world can identify with the club. One of the best renditions of the club’s anthem “You'll Never Walk Alone” was by 95k Aussies at the MCG. You can’t really have this connection with a parochial team unless you are from the same town/have a family connection. And in relation to B, I don’t have a team in basketball, but I did watch Michael Jordan in the play off finals in what turned out to be his final year (I haven’t watched since). But he was enough to get me watching, and I’m not alone in that. RL in England hasn’t had such a name in a long time. RU last had it with Jonah Lomu who was an enormous draw. 

He has a point though. I don’t think it’s snobbery, I think it’s the parochial aspect of the club game that makes it very hard for outsiders to connect to (club RU has the same issue as RL). While Liverpool FC (or Barca, or Man United etc.) belongs to the world, St Helens belongs to St Helens. Sponsors are almost exclusively drawn to those with a larger fanbase/geographic footprint which explains the discrepancy in the names between a Liverpool and a St Helens. I think the problem for RL started with its origin in that it’s regionally locked in. I think another issue (certainly in England) is that when you follow a team sport you don’t tend to follow another one (with any great degree of interest). 

I can’t really see the status of club RL in England getting much beyond what it is now (perhaps a few thousand above the current average) so really it’s up to the international games to try and generate extra interest, hence the understandable annoyance at the pull out of the Aussies/Kiwis.

So are you agreeing with him that the cause is hopeless? That there's nothing we can do, to move the game forward? That the best game in the World (in the opinion of Rugby League fans) has no potential to grow beyond the North of England?

I'm tired of the knockers.

I can happily (although I've read his diatribe, repeated so many times, I'm sick of it) read a balance sheet, of the games Assets and Liabilities as a snapshot of where we are today, but what I crave (and what is pitifully scant) are some practical, realistic, usable ideas, to move the game forward, grow the games fanbase, the world over.

Do you have any? Because BP has offered nothing, not a sausage, bug ger all.

He's a troll mate, a killer in sheep's clothing. I believe he's hell-bent on driving down the fanbase and I'm not having it.

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Has Phil Gould - or anyone, for that matter - explained why it's so dangerous for the Rugby League team to come to England but it's fine for the Wallabies and All Blacks to play in the UK ?

I think I must've missed his wisdom.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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I strongly suspect sadly that the RLWC will be postponed this year and possibly next unless the authorities who make the final decision grow a spine. This will drive even more fans away from the game here. Declining crowd numbers and TV audience's are dropping for Super League games and less TV money

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29 minutes ago, Griff said:

Has Phil Gould - or anyone, for that matter - explained why it's so dangerous for the Rugby League team to come to England but it's fine for the Wallabies and All Blacks to play in the UK ?

I think I must've missed his wisdom.

Maybe they are not happy with the shared Hotel and Gym facilities.

Why would the Rugby League teams administrators   look at what the Union teams accept or approve?

They would look at what they are getting.

 

They'd be using Headingley's Leeds Beckett Uni Gym facilities. These are used by pro athletes all the time, for example Leeds United used them for their first days back in preseason a couple of weeks ago an England RL in a mid season training session perfectly well in a bio secure way. Indeed I believe the kiwis have been there regularly before 

It is a huge professional campus with multiple facilities within it. Asking them to close all of it down to anyone who is not the 30 odd man Kiwi travelling team would be unreasonable. Likewise hotels, what are they actually expecting beyond what everyone else says is acceptable?

Its all conjecture anyway, I hope those trial games are good!

So you are saying there was no isolation bubble at all?

Maybe that is why the Kiwis were worried?

I am neither for or against what has happened but some of the mad rubbish posted on this site in the last two days makes you wonder.

 

 

 

Edited by Allora

Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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36 minutes ago, Griff said:

Has Phil Gould - or anyone, for that matter - explained why it's so dangerous for the Rugby League team to come to England but it's fine for the Wallabies and All Blacks to play in the UK ?

I think I must've missed his wisdom.

No , because it isn't 

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38 minutes ago, Allora said:

Maybe they are not happy with the shared Hotel and Gym facilities.

Why would the Rugby League teams administrators   look at what the Union teams accept or approve?

They would look at what they are getting.

Then the correct route would be to renegotiate their arrangements rather than stamp their feet and take their ball home.

They're not trying very hard, are they ?

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"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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50 minutes ago, Allora said:

Maybe they are not happy with the shared Hotel and Gym facilities.

Why would the Rugby League teams administrators   look at what the Union teams accept or approve?

They would look at what they are getting.

 

 

They'd be using Headingley's Leeds Beckett Uni Gym facilities. These are used by pro athletes all the time, for example Leeds United used them for their first days back in preseason a couple of weeks ago an England RL in a mid season training session perfectly well in a bio secure way. Indeed I believe the kiwis have been there regularly before 

It is a huge professional campus with multiple facilities within it. Asking them to close all of it down to anyone who is not the 30 odd man Kiwi travelling team would be unreasonable. Likewise hotels, what are they actually expecting beyond what everyone else says is acceptable?

Its all conjecture anyway, I hope those trial games are good!

So you are saying there was no isolation bubble at all?

Maybe that is why the Kiwis were worried?

I am neither for or against what has happened but some of the mad rubbish posted on this site in the last two days makes you wonder.

 

 

 

In the recent info from Organisers it said teams would have exclusive access to gyms in specific time slots, to maintain their bubbles
 

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17 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

V’landys talks to Triple M about the World Cup (10 minutes in). Says the NRL doesn’t require clubs to release players for other nations and the clubs could stop them playing.

https://omny.fm/shows/triple-m-rocks-footy-nrl/peter-vlandys-on-the-covid-shutdown-nrl-grand-fina

Even if V’landys  is incorrect, it is very worrying because you just know that the NRL are doing EVERYTHING they can to torpedo the World Cup

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7 minutes ago, Spidey said:

In the recent info from Organisers it said teams would have exclusive access to gyms in specific time slots, to maintain their bubbles
 

That is not what was talked about on a BBC podcast last week

Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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  • John Drake changed the title to Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)
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