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Championship and League One Funding


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3 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

London being full-time is, to a large extent, a legacy of them being in Super League a couple of years ago.

I'm inclined to the view that there is no point at all in Championship clubs running FT squads, or even 'hybrid squads' for that matter. It makes more sense to ALL be part-time

The idea of FT squads was predicated by the idea - pushed by my own club and Leigh back in 2015 and 2016 - that a FT squad would 'bridge the gap' with Super League and that whichever club was promoted would somehow be ready to step up. That idea is flawed in a number of ways - not least in the reality, as we have seen this year - the promoted club is NOT ready for SL with the FT squad they had in the Championship.

Of course we are then left with the difficult question of how the hell the promoted club can possibly build a FT squad in the small gap between the Championship Grand Final and the start of pre-season training for the following season. It's obviously impossible. Even a 'cashed up' club like Leigh couldn't do it, simply because there weren't the available players to sign.

That pulls us back either to protecting the promoted club from relegation, or going back to some sort of franchise model and 'promoting' a team early enough to help them prepare properly

Think the only way is to exempt the team from relegation for one season. 

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4 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Absolutely, I can’t remember the exact figure but Championship clubs at the top we’re getting close to £1 million I believe, that’s crazy, it makes no sense and delivers no return on the investment. 

That was on the basis of the middle 8s sold in the last tv deal though. Close the gap and make a competative spectacle for tv. 

We scrapped the fixtures so Sky wont fund.

Similar to us scrapping the expansion officers so sport england scrapped the funding, 

Short term small minded ill thought out decisions are ruining the game

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3 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

London being full-time is, to a large extent, a legacy of them being in Super League a couple of years ago.

I'm inclined to the view that there is no point at all in Championship clubs running FT squads, or even 'hybrid squads' for that matter. It makes more sense to ALL be part-time

The idea of FT squads was predicated by the idea - pushed by my own club and Leigh back in 2015 and 2016 - that a FT squad would 'bridge the gap' with Super League and that whichever club was promoted would somehow be ready to step up. That idea is flawed in a number of ways - not least in the reality, as we have seen this year - the promoted club is NOT ready for SL with the FT squad they had in the Championship.

Of course we are then left with the difficult question of how the hell the promoted club can possibly build a FT squad in the small gap between the Championship Grand Final and the start of pre-season training for the following season. It's obviously impossible. Even a 'cashed up' club like Leigh couldn't do it, simply because there weren't the available players to sign.

That pulls us back either to protecting the promoted club from relegation, or going back to some sort of franchise model and 'promoting' a team early enough to help them prepare properly

Leigh were nowhere near the best when promoted. A better example would be London who won promotion and had a good assault at the league winning games and not being embarressed. 

Toronto would have won several home games also.

Toulouse or Fev will be a good benchmark next year to see how they go.

I expect either to stay up

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29 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Leigh were nowhere near the best when promoted. A better example would be London who won promotion and had a good assault at the league winning games and not being embarressed. 

Toronto would have won several home games also.

Toulouse or Fev will be a good benchmark next year to see how they go.

I expect either to stay up

Nobody knows who would have been the ' best ' option , both Toulouse , Fev and Leigh were unbeaten in their games at the start of the 2020 season , Leigh were chosen as the safest option , removing any potential extra issues with travel and covid and having more recent experience of SL than Fev , not forgetting their owner being happy to finance the squad ( just nobody to bring in and an horrendous pre season injury list ) if possible 

But I , you and everybody have known this for months , but feel free to use hindsight to criticise others who do what you cannot 

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49 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

It’s not the only way, does any other league in any other sport do that? 

Either have promotion and relegation or admit expansion clubs through a bidding process as is the case in the NRL 

The problem for a promoted team is most good SL players will either already be signed up or will he reluctant to join a team which is favourite to be relegated on a one year contract and be looking for a new contract the next season. And their contract bargaining position is weaker as they will be desperate to get signed.

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3 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

Absolutely there has to clubs for supporters and pathways for players. 

A pathway yes.  500,000 for some champ teams with no academy or infrastructure of their own. Mental.  Said it before but we could have built a new stadium for Welsh RL, Salford/Swinton on the money we ###### away on the champ. 

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8 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

 

The idea of FT squads was predicated by the idea - pushed by my own club and Leigh back in 2015 and 2016 - that a FT squad would 'bridge the gap' with Super League and that whichever club was promoted would somehow be ready to step up. That idea is flawed in a number of ways - not least in the reality, as we have seen this year - the promoted club is NOT ready for SL with the FT squad they had in the Championship.

 

I agree with some of what you say in your post.

However, do you feel equally strongly about Toulouse Olympique this season? Do you not think that with perhaps a couple of good signings, they could do OK in their first SuperLeague season?

Just having looked at them this season, and the constraints they have operated under.... I think they could go OK next year. Their body shapes etc look completely different from the other Championship teams... They obviously have a far higher standard of athlete, and a more professional set up. 

Just my opinion mind.

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Total idiocy to destroy lower league clubs to support the elite, just a moronic short term plan. All that happens is the game outside of the SL elite dies, less players, less fans, less Sky viewers, less sponsorship, less neutrals travelling to finals etc, hence less money into the game. This happens and my club dies then I will have zero interest in the sport outside of watching local amateur RL, and I guarantee this will be the same attitude for thousands of other fans.

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You've only got to have looked at League 1 this year to see the value to the game it brings - been a cracking competition, far more exciting than Championship (and most of SL to be fair), and the standard of even the teams in the bottom half of the table has improved no end. WWR and Coventry especially improved this year. Most if not all the teams have brought through amateurs to the pro ranks (Certainly Cru have done this plenty, and WWR too down south)This should prove it's worth to the game as a whole?

 

Even up Champ funding (should never have been staggered IMHO) and keep L1 to at least £50k per club, or the game as a whole will be on it's 'arris before you know it 😞

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cru....Cru.....CRUSADERS!!!!!!

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9 hours ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

I agree with some of what you say in your post.

However, do you feel equally strongly about Toulouse Olympique this season? Do you not think that with perhaps a couple of good signings, they could do OK in their first SuperLeague season?

Just having looked at them this season, and the constraints they have operated under.... I think they could go OK next year. Their body shapes etc look completely different from the other Championship teams... They obviously have a far higher standard of athlete, and a more professional set up. 

Just my opinion mind.

It's hard to assess Toulouse on this season. They are clearly a cut above the other teams in the Championship. They've only played 13 games all season - not their fault, but it has helped with recovery times. 

My biggest concern with them is that they've got quite a few ageing players. They could do with injecting a handful of younger players into their squad, but I'm' sure they don't need me to tell them that

Of course we are talking as if it's a done deal that Toulouse will be in SL next season. I think they should be personally, but whilst ever we have promotion decided on a one-off game it certainly isn't guaranteed. A couple of years ago Featherstone went over and tonked them in their own stadium in the Play Offs!

I would fear for Featherstone though, they would be even less well equipped than Leigh if they went up (which they might well do). I suspect  the likes of Salford, Wakefield and Huddersfield will be hoping that they do anyway!

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14 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

It’s not the only way, does any other league in any other sport do that? 

We can go on with that argument forever though

  • Does any other league in any other sport have a mostly part-time second tier?
  • Does any other team in any other sport not decide who gets promoted until after every other team has signed all the players?
  • Does any other team give the promoted team 50% of the finances of the other top-flight teams

It isn't a level playing field!

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4 hours ago, dkw said:

Total idiocy to destroy lower league clubs to support the elite, just a moronic short term plan. All that happens is the game outside of the SL elite dies, less players, less fans, less Sky viewers, less sponsorship, less neutrals travelling to finals etc, hence less money into the game. This happens and my club dies then I will have zero interest in the sport outside of watching local amateur RL, and I guarantee this will be the same attitude for thousands of other fans.

Exactly my thoughts,to the letter.

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1 hour ago, paulwalker71 said:

It's hard to assess Toulouse on this season. They are clearly a cut above the other teams in the Championship. They've only played 13 games all season - not their fault, but it has helped with recovery times. 

 

Cheers for the response Paul. 

13 games... Very true. All away matches mind, with the associated travel burden. 

The cancellations must also have played havoc with their continuity. 

I agree though... From an injury/rehab/recovery perspective, the low number of games will have helped.

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18 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

The problem for a promoted team is most good SL players will either already be signed up or will he reluctant to join a team which is favourite to be relegated on a one year contract and be looking for a new contract the next season. And their contract bargaining position is weaker as they will be desperate to get signed.

I agree that’s a real issue, the promoted club could be allowed say an extra 4 overseas players to compensate, but then that’s still not perfect. No situation is perfect, which is why Rugby League changes it’s league structure every few years chasing a perfect structure but the truth is any system has its flaws and you just need to stick with one, constantly making changes to the league achieves nothing.

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8 hours ago, dkw said:

Total idiocy to destroy lower league clubs to support the elite, just a moronic short term plan. All that happens is the game outside of the SL elite dies, less players, less fans, less Sky viewers, less sponsorship, less neutrals travelling to finals etc, hence less money into the game. This happens and my club dies then I will have zero interest in the sport outside of watching local amateur RL, and I guarantee this will be the same attitude for thousands of other fans.

Totally agree, and shows what little respect the Super League has for the lower leagues....

It's about time the RFL started to think more about how it gets money in from other people than Sky and invest in the game, and not destroy the game.... RL Needs to grow not die by a thousands cuts from Ralph "the butcher" Rimmer

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23 hours ago, Scubby said:

Has there been any confirmation that the promoted club will be receiving equal funding to the rest of the SL clubs for 2022? Or is Leigh's shafting the new normal now?

Seeing as absolutely nothing else has been confirmed, then I guess that this is unlikely.

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Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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6 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

It's hard to assess Toulouse on this season. They are clearly a cut above the other teams in the Championship. They've only played 13 games all season - not their fault, but it has helped with recovery times. 

My biggest concern with them is that they've got quite a few ageing players. They could do with injecting a handful of younger players into their squad, but I'm' sure they don't need me to tell them that

Of course we are talking as if it's a done deal that Toulouse will be in SL next season. I think they should be personally, but whilst ever we have promotion decided on a one-off game it certainly isn't guaranteed. A couple of years ago Featherstone went over and tonked them in their own stadium in the Play Offs!

I would fear for Featherstone though, they would be even less well equipped than Leigh if they went up (which they might well do). I suspect  the likes of Salford, Wakefield and Huddersfield will be hoping that they do anyway!

Toulouse have a full-time set up. This doesn't simply mean employing FT players, as some seem to think, but having an organisation that is professional with a quality marketing and promotional staff and proper administration.

Thinking that some of our current Championship clubs could just sign a few FT players then hack it is well away from reality.

As for distribution, I believe that a straight line share in each league together with a small amount being retained as prize money is the sensible way forward. C1 clubs need and deserve a basic £50k.

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Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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On 07/09/2021 at 18:25, haskey said:

Lets give my team FEv "sweet FA" and lets negotiate our own contract and stuff SL 

I'd go with that.  Sounds good to me.👍

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"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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On 07/09/2021 at 19:47, redjonn said:

you may be right but I'm guessing that the TV eyeballs are watching SL games, that most sponsorship comes from SL clubs, that the SL players mainly come from SL clubs plus the fanbase of SL is greater than championship, etc etc. I don't know of course but I guess some facts would help me understand if your point is more emotional or facts based.

Of course lower tier needs funding. The balance is what the distribution of monies should be and not least take account of the less Sky money. That is the balance has to not drastically harm SL clubs whilst protecting as much as possible the money going to lower tier. That is if one recognisers that harming SL too much ultimately harms the whole edifice.  Not just the other way around.

The other equation is the less revenue coming from Challenge Cup or other competitions outside SL and of course less revenue from internationals.  Surely that would have been significant reduced too. Its not just SL looking to save by giving less to lower tier.

Not even going to read all that, to survive we have look after all aspects of the game, greed is killing the game just as well as greed is killing the planet, keep fiddling whilst Rome burns.

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13 hours ago, dkw said:

Total idiocy to destroy lower league clubs to support the elite, just a moronic short term plan. All that happens is the game outside of the SL elite dies, less players, less fans, less Sky viewers, less sponsorship, less neutrals travelling to finals etc, hence less money into the game. This happens and my club dies then I will have zero interest in the sport outside of watching local amateur RL, and I guarantee this will be the same attitude for thousands of other fans.

I would be more worried if it was a whole area thrown away but when there is an elite club a stones through away its not too bad as the pyramid remains intact.

London going PT is a worry, other heartland clubs = no issue

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10 hours ago, yipyee said:

I would be more worried if it was a whole area thrown away but when there is an elite club a stones through away its not too bad as the pyramid remains intact.

London going PT is a worry, other heartland clubs = no issue

I don't think it works like that at all. The pyramid cannot remain intact when you remove 40% of it. People don't suddenly just go and watch someone else and many will just become alienated from the game.

Areas and towns will will go into terminal decline and the sport will become more and more irrelevant with the older fans passing away and not being replaced. We can even see this rot in action in what were RL heartlands like Swinton and Rochdale as it is.

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12 minutes ago, Damien said:

I don't think it works like that at all. The pyramid cannot remain intact when you remove 40% of it. People don't suddenly just go and watch someone else and many will just become alienated from the game.

Areas and towns will will go into terminal decline and the sport will become more and more irrelevant with the older fans passing away and not being replaced. We can even see this rot in action in what were RL heartlands like Swinton and Rochdale as it is.

I agree on the whole, although only where it can be shown that the existence of a semi pro club acts as a catalyst for interest for interest in the local communuty game, and the sport at large. Subsidising tens of thousands of pounds so 3-400 people have something to do on a Sunday afternoon isn't an aim in itself. But if it helps attract the new generation of players and fans into the sport then that's good. I think most of our clubs tick that box, some with clear actions, and others by contributing to a rugby league culture in their town. However, I think there's a couple now where the link has become pretty tenuous. 

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1 minute ago, Toby Chopra said:

I agree on the whole, although only where it can be shown that the existence of a semi pro club acts as a catalyst for interest for interest in the local communuty game, and the sport at large. Subsidising tens of thousands of pounds so 3-400 people have something to do on a Sunday afternoon isn't an aim in itself. But if it helps attract the new generation of players and fans into the sport then that's good. I think most of our clubs tick that box, some with clear actions, and others by contributing to a rugby league culture in their town. However, I think there's a couple now where the link has become pretty tenuous. 

I agree, there are certainly a couple who I couldn't make strong cases for. I can't be bothered getting into arguments about them, as the general theme is so much more important, so I won't mention them. I'm talking about at a high level and am not prepared to discard 16 clubs because a couple add little. The vast majority are of overwhelming benefit and should be the focal point for growth in that area

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