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The Cornwall RLFC Thread


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36 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

The argument here seems to be top-down vs bottom-up development. When in reality the optimal way to develop is an all-encompassing strategy, with a progressive professional club, underpinned by strong grassroots development - see Newcastle Thunder. The issue is that the money rarely stretches that far to be able to properly do justice to all areas

Indeed. Money matters. Arguably every expansion attempt has worked quite well whilst the money has been there to fund it. Newcastle are going great, Catalans are flying (yes I know French RL was played there but its still expansion of sorts), Celtic Crusaders did great with many Welsh players coming through until Samuels pulled the funding, Toronto got great crowds and I have no doubt in time the Canadian development would have come.

The failures over decades that are cited are often little more than pub teams put together on the back of a fag packet with little backing.

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17 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Well hindsight is a wonderful thing. The RFL wanted to spread the game to a national footprint professionally. Their issue was that the strategy was lacking and they relied too much on the owners of those clubs doing the hard yards in creating their own development pathways whilst also creating a new professional sporting club. So in the end it was made to look like an RFL vanity project. 

Yes I completely agree

17 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

The difficulty with the strategy you propose, is they'd still be heavily reliant on private investment. Therefore, they need to partner with someone who is going to have a long term vision and put the necessary funds in to make a successful professional club. That's very difficult to judge - many so called owners with deep pockets have not lived up to promises and left a trail of destruction (Argyle, Koukash etc). So the RFL is then exposing itself to getting in bed with someone who is not a good partner. I think the new structure and investment that SL/RFL are now looking at is probably the most optimal solution but proof will be in the pudding as to how that is implemented

If we're talking about a professional element, then they're going to be relying heavily on private investment regardless of development model. From my perspective, it should be about filling in the gaps to create a proper development pathway from grass roots to pro level. I don't see the point in dropping in a new club to virgin territory, if the majority of their squad is coming from the heartlands and there's minimal development work going on alongside it. People keep mentioning hindsight, but the game was doing that 30+ years' ago with the likes of Fulham and Nottingham City, and it didn't work then, so lessons hadn't been learnt and mistakes were repeated. It has to be more of a holistic approach. What remains to be seen with Cornwall is whether it will be the latter or the former. If it's the former, then they'll probably end up being another footnote in the chapter of rugby league's weird expansion attempts. If it's the latter then hopefully we'll end up with a new region and new source of players and spectators enjoying the game. Unfortunately, the RFL doesn't have the proverbial pot to piddle in at the moment, so their contribution to the project will be minimal.

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14 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Yes I completely agree

If we're talking about a professional element, then they're going to be relying heavily on private investment regardless of development model. From my perspective, it should be about filling in the gaps to create a proper development pathway from grass roots to pro level. I don't see the point in dropping in a new club to virgin territory, if the majority of their squad is coming from the heartlands and there's minimal development work going on alongside it. People keep mentioning hindsight, but the game was doing that 30+ years' ago with the likes of Fulham and Nottingham City, and it didn't work then, so lessons hadn't been learnt and mistakes were repeated. It has to be more of a holistic approach. What remains to be seen with Cornwall is whether it will be the latter or the former. If it's the former, then they'll probably end up being another footnote in the chapter of rugby league's weird expansion attempts. If it's the latter then hopefully we'll end up with a new region and new source of players and spectators enjoying the game. Unfortunately, the RFL doesn't have the proverbial pot to piddle in at the moment, so their contribution to the project will be minimal.

The RFL really should have refined strategies by now on how to gain volunteers, sponsorship, marketing and getting grants.  I went through all this 30 years ago and had to find it all myself, but this information, contacts and support would be essential and exactly what Cornwall should have already received already.  If they havent, then the last line of your post is exactly true.

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29 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Yes I completely agree

If we're talking about a professional element, then they're going to be relying heavily on private investment regardless of development model. From my perspective, it should be about filling in the gaps to create a proper development pathway from grass roots to pro level. I don't see the point in dropping in a new club to virgin territory, if the majority of their squad is coming from the heartlands and there's minimal development work going on alongside it. People keep mentioning hindsight, but the game was doing that 30+ years' ago with the likes of Fulham and Nottingham City, and it didn't work then, so lessons hadn't been learnt and mistakes were repeated. It has to be more of a holistic approach. What remains to be seen with Cornwall is whether it will be the latter or the former. If it's the former, then they'll probably end up being another footnote in the chapter of rugby league's weird expansion attempts. If it's the latter then hopefully we'll end up with a new region and new source of players and spectators enjoying the game. Unfortunately, the RFL doesn't have the proverbial pot to piddle in at the moment, so their contribution to the project will be minimal.

Grassroots development in areas outside the heartlands ultimately has a ceiling though if there is no professional pathway. Hence why development needs to have a 360 degree view rather than top-down or bottom-up.

With regard to Cornwall, this isn't an RFL backed venture. Perez had the licence so we don't know what leverage that has. I remain highly sceptical that it will succeed but will give it the benefit of the doubt. And worst case it will drive interest amongst some new fanbase which may help generate further grassroots development and national interest

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1 hour ago, Damien said:

Indeed. Money matters. Arguably every expansion attempt has worked quite well whilst the money has been there to fund it. Newcastle are going great, Catalans are flying (yes I know French RL was played there but its still expansion of sorts), Celtic Crusaders did great with many Welsh players coming through until Samuels pulled the funding, Toronto got great crowds and I have no doubt in time the Canadian development would have come.

The failures over decades that are cited are often little more than pub teams put together on the back of a fag packet with little backing.

The problem is that with its base in smallish unfashionable northern towns, the game doesn't have a way to bring in the sort of money needed for those expansion clubs to break even and then become profitable.  The result of that is that their backers eventually run out of money to keep putting in to bridge the gap between income and expenses and they go belly up.  Until a solution to the game's lack of money is found, the same poor outcome can be expected sooner or later.  As Salford's experience with Marwan Koukash shows, the same basic problem faces traditional clubs too.

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2 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

The RFL really should have refined strategies by now on how to gain volunteers, sponsorship, marketing and getting grants.  I went through all this 30 years ago and had to find it all myself, but this information, contacts and support would be essential and exactly what Cornwall should have already received already.  If they havent, then the last line of your post is exactly true.

Have to agree, it surprising how many charitably and philanthropic organisations their are that could be approached for grass routes development grants, especially if targeting more deprived or less affluent area's. 

I worked for our companies Corporate Social Reasonability and purposely I employed people that understood how best to maximise those opportunities as in partnerships. Also  other companies CSR groups and governmental organisations if abroad, we gained millions in additional funding or people resource and volunteers other than our own.

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A lot of the comments here once again focusing on 'expansion' clubs. What did other clubs in league 1 do in the same time period referred to? Did they offer any more value for money?

Good luck to Cornwall, so far they seem to be on track though do think they are still underestimating the task at hand. 

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Can somebody explain to me what this "licence" is that Mr. Perez obtained from Hemel to allow him to put Ottawa in League One? I never realised RL operated a licensing system and is there one available every time a team drops out of the League?   That said, and as someone who was once  involved in an expansion club many years ago, I wish Neil Kelly and his team all the best for the future.

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4 hours ago, Big Picture said:

The problem is that with its base in smallish unfashionable northern towns, the game doesn't have a way to bring in the sort of money needed for those expansion clubs to break even and then become profitable.  The result of that is that their backers eventually run out of money to keep putting in to bridge the gap between income and expenses and they go belly up.  Until a solution to the game's lack of money is found, the same poor outcome can be expected sooner or later.  As Salford's experience with Marwan Koukash shows, the same basic problem faces traditional clubs too.

Absolute rubbish.

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9 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

It's not a straw man argument at all. It was the RFL's money - they chose to allocate it to new League 1 clubs with limited/non-existent foundations underpinning them. Nobody was forcing them to do this.

This is a discussion forum. It is not my job to formulate a strategic plan for the RFL, or to humour yourself. I do not have the knowledge, time or inclination to do this. 

No I do not believe it is good on its own. I never said I did. What I did say was that it would have been better than pouring a million pounds down the drain. I can only assume that you think spending a million pounds over 5 years on 3 clubs that have folded was money well spent and a risk worth taking, because you haven't said otherwise.

As I've said, it isn't my job to do this. I don't work for the RFL. This is a discussion forum. Since when did wanting the RFL to devise a strategic plan for developing the game equate to me having to devise it?? That is a ludicrous viewpoint. Is your opinion that the RFL shouldn't have a strategic plan for developing the game??

I don't believe the other League 1 funding was well spent either, regardless of location of team. But as least those other League 1 clubs are still going.

I'm a lot more comfortable with it than when it was 70k. If clubs generate their own investment then it's absolutely fine for them to spend it how they like. That was how pro rugby league always used to operate.

These are pretty much the same points you made before, I don't agree with much of what you've said, it just seems like hindsight criticism to me. I've nothing else to add that I haven't said before so will have to agree to disagree. Otherwise it will fill this thread with a circular argument. 

 

Good luck to Cornwall I hope they are a success, even if not I look forward to watching rugby there whilst it lasts. I do know people in that area who really like RL through watching on TV, whether it's enough to generate a decent crowd is to be seen, I hope so but not yet convinced.

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3 hours ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

These are pretty much the same points you made before, I don't agree with much of what you've said, it just seems like hindsight criticism to me. I've nothing else to add that I haven't said before so will have to agree to disagree. Otherwise it will fill this thread with a circular argument. 

And likewise, you haven't addressed questions I've put to you either. I haven't got the time or energy to trawl back through old threads, but I'm pretty sure I made some of these criticisms on this forum at the time, so I can assure you it isn't from hindsight. But fair enough, let's leave it there.

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13 hours ago, Ivarr the Boneless said:

The way TV and central funding has been used is questionable at all levels of the professional game. Speedway is in big trouble after losing its TV money, having blown the dosh on higher wages and not fixing the ceiling. RL is on a two year TV deal that seems to be declining in value. The RFL need to learn lessons from speedway and fast 

I’ve heard this before. I don’t think Speedway’s ills can be placed solely on the TV deal. The RFL in some manner have learnt because they’ve successfully secured free to air coverage. I reckon you could date Speedway’s problems to when they lost the GP highlights package on free to air. 

The emergence of the Polish League into a professional set up which could see them pay its competitors enough that they didn’t have to race any other league. Alongside that Speedway has fallen victim to the economy where land which can be developed for residential units. Nearly 85% of teams don’t own their homes - as result the stadiums are mostly shoddy and have zero attraction to anyone under the age of 25. 

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4 hours ago, dealwithit said:

Terrific. The squad is gaining momentum. Anyone know who this lad is?

A homegrown Cornish lad, the kind of signing that people wanted the club to do to develop local talent.

That is of course until they do that then a signing like this becomes a nobody who isn't good enough.

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3 hours ago, Damien said:

A homegrown Cornish lad, the kind of signing that people wanted the club to do to develop local talent.

That is of course until they do that then a signing like this becomes a nobody who isn't good enough.

I did some digging and he’s been playing in the university system. Gloucestershire I believe. Well done to the club. 

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17 hours ago, dealwithit said:

Terrific. The squad is gaining momentum. Anyone know who this lad is?

Played against him last season and the season before. Is an excellent finisher and scored try’s for fun at uni and community level.

Hard to say how he’ll go in L1 due to the huge increase in quality opposition and the lack of teammates. 

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A great opportunity for both local lads and perhaps for any northern-based blokes who currently play at a good amateur level, but quite fancy a summer or two in Cornwall.

Cracking place to live and you wont struggle to find work during the summer months. The county is screaming out for seasonal hospitality/construction/healthcare workers.

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7 hours ago, tiffers said:

A great opportunity for both local lads and perhaps for any northern-based blokes who currently play at a good amateur level, but quite fancy a summer or two in Cornwall.

Cracking place to live and you wont struggle to find work during the summer months. The county is screaming out for seasonal hospitality/construction/healthcare workers.

If I was 20 years younger (ok 25) I would be down like a shot . 

 

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I noted on BBC Neil Kelly was quoted as saying that some of the other clubs in League 1 were complaining about having to travel to Penryn once a year, the players of Conwall RL will have to do a similar trip 10 times a year, thank God Newcastle & Cumbrian clubs are in the Championship, that could well be 2 overnight stays for us.

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1 hour ago, CornwallRL said:

I noted on BBC Neil Kelly was quoted as saying that some of the other clubs in League 1 were complaining about having to travel to Penryn once a year, the players of Conwall RL will have to do a similar trip 10 times a year, thank God Newcastle & Cumbrian clubs are in the Championship, that could well be 2 overnight stays for us.

Any idea when your jerseys will be on sale? 

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