Barley Mow Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 1 hour ago, HawkMan said: Sorry if this has been covered before, but I'm not rereading 92 pages, but if in some future season we have a SL of 11 Cat A teams and 1 Cat B, does that mean the Cat B team is doomed before even the first game? No matter where they end in the league they'll be in danger of relegation. Depending of course on who wins the Championship , so they might be okay. Is this right or have I got this wrong ? As I understand it, in that scenario the SL grade B team's on field performance would matter to the extent that it would be factored into their overall IMG grade. They would be competing with the other grade B teams from outside of SL to see who has the best IMG score at the end of the season. If they have a better overall score than all of the none-SL teams they would stay up, if they didn't they would be relegated, even if they didn't finish bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2010 Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 54 minutes ago, Barley Mow said: As I understand it, in that scenario the SL grade B team's on field performance would matter to the extent that it would be factored into their overall IMG grade. They would be competing with the other grade B teams from outside of SL to see who has the best IMG score at the end of the season. If they have a better overall score than all of the none-SL teams they would stay up, if they didn't they would be relegated, even if they didn't finish bottom. I thought it was that if a B grade club wins the Championship then they automatically replace the bottom finishing B grade club in SL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 25 minutes ago, Damien said: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 7 hours ago, HawkMan said: Sorry if this has been covered before, but I'm not rereading 92 pages, but if in some future season we have a SL of 11 Cat A teams and 1 Cat B, does that mean the Cat B team is doomed before even the first game? No matter where they end in the league they'll be in danger of relegation. Depending of course on who wins the Championship , so they might be okay. Is this right or have I got this wrong ? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 12 hours ago, Damien said: So they'll abstain. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jughead Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 It would be interesting to understand what the “key issues” that need “resolving” actually are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blues Ox Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 This vote has the potential to go totally belly up for IMG. Maybe they should give Super League clubs 2 votes again to get the desired result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Chopra Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 1 minute ago, The Blues Ox said: This vote has the potential to go totally belly up for IMG. Maybe they should give Super League clubs 2 votes again to get the desired result. Superleague clubs do have two votes - or 2.18 to be precise. Wakefield voting against doesn't actually make any difference at this point. To pass, the rules say the motion needs at least 4 votes from the Championship/L1 clubs to vote in favour, so if it gets those -and I'm pretty sure it will - then that more than cancels out the Wakey vote. It's if we get more SL opponents - say, Cas and SRD? - then things get a bit more sticky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roughyed Rats Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, JM2010 said: I thought it was that if a B grade club wins the Championship then they automatically replace the bottom finishing B grade club in SL That was in the original proposal from IMG but is now not the case. Put simply, whoever has more points gets the SL place. Therefore, you can win the Championship play-off and the B grade team finishing bottom of SL could still stay up. Edited April 17, 2023 by Roughyed Rats 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blues Ox Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said: Superleague clubs do have two votes - or 2.18 to be precise. Seems about right for Rugby League. 4 Votes from Champ teams should be pretty easy to get as I imagine teams like Bradford/York/London who all have very little chance of normal promotion any time soon will see this as their best option and then it should be easy enough to pick up one more. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Chopra Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said: Seems about right for Rugby League. 4 Votes from Champ teams should be pretty easy to get as I imagine teams like Bradford/York/London who all have very little chance of normal promotion any time soon will see this as their best option and then it should be easy enough to pick up one more. Yes, I'd imagine all the non-heartland clubs would vote for it, plus Bradford and York as you mention. That would just about be enough to overcome even three Superleague 'no' votes. If there's anymore objections from Superleague than that, then it's dead in the water anyhow. Crazily, West Wales Raiders still get a vote, while Catalans don't! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Horseman Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 24 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said: This vote has the potential to go totally belly up for IMG. Unless Matt Shaw has got this badly wrong in this piece from 10 days ago (and I think he's very unlikely to have done so given he has more of a handle on these things than most) it will sail through. https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/rugby-league-clubs-accepted-harsh-26648311 "In two weeks, stakeholders across rugby league will vote on IMG's 'Reimagining Rugby League' proposals. Spoiler - they'll be approved. You might be deceived into believing the grading process mapped out is unpopular among clubs. The dissenting voices from Cougar Park and Mount Pleasant have been met by unusual silence across the rest of the game. In reality, the majority support it and most on the fence largely agree with the proposals. Anyone hoping for a rebellion to triumph on April 19th will be bitterly disappointed. " 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSaint Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 14 hours ago, Damien said: Probably done their own assessment with the conclusion they are at least 13 stronger clubs than them at this present time… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hull Kingston Bronco Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 14 hours ago, Damien said: "Key issues" being.... "oh s###, we're about to get relegated" 1 1 1 Apparently this site says I "won the day" here on 23rd Jan, 19th Jan, 9th Jan also 13th December, whatever any of that means. Anyway, 4 times in a few weeks? The forum must be going to the dogs - you people need to seriously up your game. Where's Dutoni when you need him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Chopra Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 14 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said: "Key issues" being.... "oh s###, we're about to get relegated" 43 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said: Probably done their own assessment with the conclusion they are at least 13 stronger clubs than them at this present time… I mean, purely from their perspective, it's the rational thing to do. I suspect we'd have seen the same from 2 or 3 of the other weaker SL sides if they were in the same boat. But it shines a light on how weak their fundamentals are such that a single season in Tier 2 would immediately render them behind Fev or Toulouse in the gradings with no way back. Or so they must have calculated and they're probably not wrong, especially as they haven't had time to benefit from the new stand yet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DI Keith Fowler Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Roughyed Rats said: That was in the original proposal from IMG but is now not the case. Put simply, whoever has more points gets the SL place. Therefore, you can win the Championship play-off and the B grade team finishing bottom of SL could still stay up. I don't think it was sorry, it's always been whoever has more points with performance being one criteria. I think there was a lot of misunderstanding at the outset but that was from journalists & clubs, from IMG they've been consistent throughout. 2 I was born to run a club like this. Number 1, I do not spook easily, and those who think I do, are wasting their time, with their surprise attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gittinsfan Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 I'm sure most clubs will vote in favour.But I wonder how many will regret that decision when the gradings are finally announced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Chopra Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, gittinsfan said: I'm sure most clubs will vote in favour.But I wonder how many will regret that decision when the gradings are finally announced. It's quite transparent how the gradings will be calculated. It may be rational for some clubs to vote against because they disagree with the system, or where it might place them, but no club should be blindsided by their eventual grading number. If they are, it's because they haven't done their homework. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idrewthehaggis Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Roughyed Rats said: That was in the original proposal from IMG but is now not the case. Put simply, whoever has more points gets the SL place. Therefore, you can win the Championship play-off and the B grade team finishing bottom of SL could still stay up. So essentially that would- Replace an objective test (league win points) with the subjective (Grading points decided by a committee). Done purely likes would in my opinion breed allegations of unfairness, strengthen the thought the Sport has a proclivity for random, chaos coupled with dysfunctional, parochialism for a handful of clubs. I suspect gradings will be a proviso for where a club is placed, but secondary to on field form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said: So essentially that would- Replace an objective test (league win points) with the subjective (Grading points decided by a committee). Done purely likes would in my opinion breed allegations of unfairness, strengthen the thought the Sport has a proclivity for random, chaos coupled with dysfunctional, parochialism for a handful of clubs. I suspect gradings will be a proviso for where a club is placed, but secondary to on field form. while I know many dont like comparisons to other sports but: There have been quite a few instances in other sports in the UK where it has gone down to the last matches of a season and if team A wins the league below there will be P&R but if team B or C win then there will not and the bottom team of the league above get a reprieve. (its also happened in RL (early 2000s IIRC) when Huddersfield and others (?) have managed to finish bottom and not go down) While its not ideal its also not unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gittinsfan Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Toby Chopra said: It's quite transparent how the gradings will be calculated. It may be rational for some clubs to vote against because they disagree with the system, or where it might place them, but no club should be blindsided by their eventual grading number. If they are, it's because they haven't done their homework. I'm not trying to argue here,but have'nt I read on here that certain weightings will come into play.Are they transparent? Or have I misread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jughead Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 Now the business plans of Featherstone and Wakefield have been identified as not really viable, I do think it’s funny how they’ve both decided IMG are not the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Chopra Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, gittinsfan said: I'm not trying to argue here,but have'nt I read on here that certain weightings will come into play.Are they transparent? Or have I misread? The link at the bottom of this RFL article lays out all the different weightings, and clubs have been given an even more detailed handbook. They should have a good idea what score they'll end up with. Whether they agree with that approach and the weightings is a different matter. https://www.rugby-league.com/article/61498/rugby-league-club-grading-criteria-recommendations-unveiled Edit: A couple of the weightings have since been tweaked, but I haven't seen an updated public chart. But the clubs will have it, and they're pretty minor anyway Edited April 17, 2023 by Toby Chopra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roughyed Rats Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 44 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said: The link at the bottom of this RFL article lays out all the different weightings, and clubs have been given an even more detailed handbook. They should have a good idea what score they'll end up with. Whether they agree with that approach and the weightings is a different matter. https://www.rugby-league.com/article/61498/rugby-league-club-grading-criteria-recommendations-unveiled Edit: A couple of the weightings have since been tweaked, but I haven't seen an updated public chart. But the clubs will have it, and they're pretty minor anyway As I understand it, the complaint that some clubs have is that actual marking criteria that sits behind this has not been provided to them and won't be ahead of the vote. They are therefore being asked to vote on the principle rather than with the exactly how it would work. The RFL/IMG have this info, so why not provide it to the clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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