Fri 7th Apr: SL: Wigan Warriors v St Helens KO 15:00 (Sky)

[andyscoot]

1 minute ago, The Blues Ox said:

Looked like a hip drop again.

Wondered if it might be but couldn't see clearly. Looked like 2 feet off the ground.

[andyscoot]

Shorrocks turned up big time.

I can relax now.

[JohnM]

2 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Wilkin can say Saints have been great all he wants but their execution has been shocking.

Don't agree. I think Saints have been at their absolute best.

[The Blues Ox]

1 minute ago, andyscoot said:

Wondered if it might be but couldn't see clearly. Looked like 2 feet off the ground.

Not overly clear on the replay but yeah certainly looked that sort of tackle. Could possibly be a long term injury that just looking how he acted after the tackle.

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by The Blues Ox

[Waynebennettswinger]

Wigan the better team today, their defence was tremendous. Shorrocks Man of the Match for me although I think they announced Smithies.

Impeccable minutes silence in the ground and great respect shown in applauding the injured players off the field. What a game we have! 

[Futtocks]

Wigan outplayed and outgamed Saints.

[fieldofclothofgold]

StHelens are obviously still tired from their trip to Australia 

[Dunbar]

Very very good win for Wigan that.

[Roy Haggerty]

1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

Wilkin can say Saints have been great all he wants but their execution has been shocking.

Exactly. 
 

Wellens was always on a loser taking over a 4-time champion side. Only one way. But there are worrying signs here. The methodical attack is too predictable for good defences. And because more spontaneous attacks are not used, we tend to mess them up - as you saw in all the line breaks where we failed to finish them off. 
 

You can get away with a weak attack if your defence is tight, but saints’ flanks are both vulnerable, and other teams have realised it. 
 

It’s going to be a different name in the trophy this year, and with no decent replacement for Roby in sight, and some ageing blokes losing form, Wellens has a tough transitional period to manage. 

[Davo5]

Big performance from Harry Smith,never easy being the only recognised half but he guided Wigan around the park,scored a good try & outplayed Saints 2 much lauded halfbacks.

[StandOffHalf]

Surely gotta be Shorrocks for Homme du Match, for the makeshift half coming in and offering big moments.

[Tommygilf]

So much for Harry Bang-Average Smith eh? Shorrocks had a great afternoon too.

Or were Saints just not that good either?

Higher on passion than on quality that one I think, but that wins you big games too.

[Roy Haggerty]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

So much for Harry Bang-Average Smith eh? Shorrocks had a great afternoon too.

Or were Saints just not that good either?

Higher on passion than on quality that one I think, but that wins you big games too.

Saints are not that good. Teams shouldn’t judge their performance by beating saints this year (at least not so far), but by how they go against Catalans and Warrington. Those are the two form teams by some distance. 

[Leeds Wire]

7 minutes ago, Roy Haggerty said:

Saints are not that good. Teams shouldn’t judge their performance by beating saints this year (at least not so far), but by how they go against Catalans and Warrington. Those are the two form teams by some distance. 

What a strange thing to post. That's incredibly selective about what people are supposed to deduce from Saints so far. Why can't Wigan make observations about today, for example? 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Leeds Wire

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, Leeds Wire said:

What a strange thing to post. That's incredibly selective about what people are supposed to deduce from Saints so far. Why can't Wigan make observations about today, for example? 

I don't think its that controversial. Wigan fought hard today, but they didn't need their best quality performance to beat saints.

[Damien]

40 minutes ago, Roy Haggerty said:

Wigan have been more successful than saints at slowing the ruck. No question. Some of that is just home advantage as per normal. Refs react to thousands of fans demanding 6 again, as Catalans know very well!

I saw no difference between both teams to be honest.

[Damien]

Pleasantly surprised by Wigan as I feared the worst today. I thought we were well in control for most of the game but was always fearful because Saints are such a quality team and cam score tries out of nothing. 

[Leeds Wire]

10 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I don't think its that controversial. Wigan fought hard today, but they didn't need their best quality performance to beat saints.

Am I going mad, or missing something? 

So Saints won't be reviewing today's game?

[Dunbar]

54 minutes ago, Roy Haggerty said:

Wigan have been more successful than saints at slowing the ruck. No question. Some of that is just home advantage as per normal. Refs react to thousands of fans demanding 6 again, as Catalans know very well!

Wigan were more successful at dominating the ruck.  More physical, better contact and committed more men to the ruck.

Nothing to do with the ref.

[Jughead]

Better team win. There’s just no go forward without Walmsley and Wigan’s pack dominated, which is thoroughly depressing when it includes Singleton and Ellis in it. There’s also no pace in the Saints attack to get a quick play the ball, which is hampering the attack as much as anything. 

For Wigan’s dominance and being the better side for most of the game, the tries were off the back of penalties and Saints had their moments, with Shorrocks (how was he not man of the match?) making a try saver on his own line, Marshall dragging Makinson into touch and some real dumb, panicked play at times by Saints, so there are a few positive points on a bad day at the office. 

Persisting with Hurrell is absolutely annihilating us in defence and we’re letting it lie because he’s not bad from ten out. Matautia is also earning his invite to the Disciplinary Christmas Party this year and will be off for two weeks, despite his injury. 

[graveyard johnny]

Hopoate has been tripe for at least 5 or 6 years - even a basket case bulldogs outfit got shut of him

[Tommygilf]

22 minutes ago, Leeds Wire said:

Am I going mad, or missing something? 

So Saints won't be reviewing today's game?

Of course they will be.

You learn lessons relative to the test environment, this isn't controversial?

[Tommygilf]

32 minutes ago, Damien said:

I saw no difference between both teams to be honest.

I tend to agree.

I think Wigan will know they will need to be better, specifically in terms of quality, against the top sides this year. Saints just aren't firing at the moment and whilst they can front up and put a lot of effort in, the results just aren't coming - especially when a side matches or beats them for physicality like Wigan did today.

[Dave T]

I think it was a good game, some good performances all round, and I do think it was rather simply summed up by the pundits for once. Wigan won the big plays almost every time. A couple of blinding try saving tackles, had they gone slightly the other way, it's a Saints win. 

Wigan did well, they deserved it, probably by being just a few % better than Saints. But Saints did show how dangerous they could be at times.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Dave T

[EagleEyePie]

Absolutely delighted after that game. That's what rugby league is all about. A beautiful day, a packed stadium, a full blooded derby.

I was surprised in how well we muscled up in the pack. I know they were missing Walmsley but I've always felt we deal with him quite well but struggle to deal with players like Paasi, Lees, Mata'utia and Sironen. A lot of credit has to go to the outside backs and the work that they did down the middle of the field because it's not really a strength of our forwards. King, Miski, Marshall and Wardle all busied themselves and I think that paid off in how well our middles defended.

I don't know how Joe Shorrocks wasn't given either the Sky man of the match or the Wigan sponsors man of the match. Considering he was in a position he's never started in before I thought he was excellent. The try saving tackle was outstanding but also his positioning to sweep up kicks by the try line (he was like a natural halfback) the way he tracked back to make some crucial tackles and even intercept from a break. His ball movement was excellent too. It was a big call from Matt Peet considering Powell seemed like the more obvious choice but he's been totally vindicated.

Smith controlled the game really well, French was a threat when he needed to be.

It's fair to say that Saints weren't at their best though (or at least not compared to last season's best). Lomax was a threat when he got the opportunity and Hurrell caused problems (his defence is shocking though) down our left edge. Roby also made a difference with the speed of the ruck but there was just something lacking from Saints. You could say the same for Wigan as we weren't hugely threatening but with Cust and Field out you can understand that.

The bad news is the injury to Cooper looked a bad one and that's going to cost us big time. He's not been playing long minutes recently but he's still important to us and had a good game today. I thought the introduction of Singleton highlighted just how little depth we have in the front row. He came on, messed up his first involvement and was taken off about 10 minutes later. Mago isn't good enough either so that could be a big blow.

I'm hoping Mata'utia is okay. Didn't see a replay but at the time it looked like he burst out of the line and went head first into the hip of Havard. The worst collision I've seen in a long time.

All in all Good Friday lived up to the name. Great to see the Saints fans playing their part and creating a great atmosphere.

After that effort we're going to get absolutely smashed by Wire next week but who cares