Roses series

[JonM]

3 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Yeah I understand. Is there no way you think to revitalise a county rivalry between Yorks and Lancs?

Revitalise suggests that it used to be a big deal. 100+ years of it being worse attended than club games says that's not the case. Most people under the age of 50 or so in the north west would look blank at the idea of a rivalry with Yorkshire.

North v South could definitely work, but not in RL for obvious reasons. It's hard to think of any other professional sport that has this kind of rep game at a level below internationals in any case.

[JohnM]

On 02/05/2023 at 22:02, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I don't like cricket.

10cc?

(Ah! I'm too late...once again)

Edited June 5, 2023 by JohnM

[Wellsy4HullFC]

11 hours ago, JonM said:

Revitalise suggests that it used to be a big deal. 100+ years of it being worse attended than club games says that's not the case. Most people under the age of 50 or so in the north west would look blank at the idea of a rivalry with Yorkshire.

North v South could definitely work, but not in RL for obvious reasons. It's hard to think of any other professional sport that has this kind of rep game at a level below internationals in any case.

North v South would be a good rep game in football. Where you'd draw the line in not sure though. Midlands counts as the South to me!

[Mr Frisky]

7 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

North v South would be a good rep game in football. Where you'd draw the line in not sure though. Midlands counts as the South to me!

North v South- so its people from Cumbria and Newcastle against the rest then - game on!

Think the marras with a sprinkle of Geordies could take the Southerners!

[RigbyLuger]

 

[Henson Park Old Firm]

1 hour ago, RigbyLuger said:

 

Yorlshire?

[RigbyLuger]

11 minutes ago, Henson Park Old Firm said:

Yorlshire?

Obviously YorKshire would have won it!

[Henson Park Old Firm]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, War of the Roses (with Cumbria) should be picked by players from the League 1 and Championship clubs... I think it would be good for the lower leagues to have a representative round.

[Anita Bath]

1 hour ago, RigbyLuger said:

Obviously YorKshire would have won it!

Lancashire take pleasure out of knocking ‘L’ out of yor(l)kshire…always have done.

[Sports Prophet]

Those Yolkshire folk are too yellow to really give those Lancashire lot a test.

[Faithful1865]

On 29/04/2023 at 13:52, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Wow Jughead that was a long post!!!

I wonder when his next novel is due out.

[JohnM]

7 hours ago, Henson Park Old Firm said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, War of the Roses (with Cumbria) should be picked by players from the League 1 and Championship clubs... I think it would be good for the lower leagues to have a representative round.

What's stopping them from doing it?

[Henson Park Old Firm]

24 minutes ago, JohnM said:

What's stopping them from doing it?

Management not using common sense or simply not getting on this forum and getting free advice.

[JohnM]

Why can't the Championship and L1 clubs get together and organise it themselves though?

[redjonn]

How did the Australians turn the interstate lack of interest and subsequent decline (aka our earlier Lancs /Yorks game) into the golden goose of  SoO which is basically the same.  All be it tweaking of whom is eligible to play.

As to those that forever bring up that Lancs is such that no clubs exist anymore if history tells me those that supported and fought in the original War of the Roses where not from those said counties.  From across the country they signed their allegiance to whichever House irrespective of geographical location but for other reasons.

Not saying RL Roses games are a good idea just that some arguments are just chucked out with no substantial basis and just tedious reasons to back up well we done that before whats the point of repeating failure.

[Gerrumonside ref]

The idea that there is no sporting rivalry in cricket and football between Lancashire and Yorkshire is completely wrong.

Whether there’s enough in rugby league is a good question, but I don’t think there’s a definitive answer at this stage.

One things for sure I would rather at this moment see a Roses match than England hammer France again.

 

[Dirkgee]

40 minutes ago, redjonn said:

How did the Australians turn the interstate lack of interest and subsequent decline (aka our earlier Lancs /Yorks game) into the golden goose of  SoO which is basically the same.  All be it tweaking of whom is eligible to play.

As to those that forever bring up that Lancs is such that no clubs exist anymore if history tells me those that supported and fought in the original War of the Roses where not from those said counties.  From across the country they signed their allegiance to whichever House irrespective of geographical location but for other reasons.

Not saying RL Roses games are a good idea just that some arguments are just chucked out with no substantial basis and just tedious reasons to back up well we done that before whats the point of repeating failure.

Australian Rules Football actually started the first State of Origin series. The first game in 1977 was between Western Australia and Victoria and was so successful that RL took the concept to interstate matches between Queensland and NSW.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Origin?wprov=sfla1

The difference between State of Origin games and regular interstate matches was you were selected where you played junior football, not where you were living at the time, which was how representative matches in Australia were run at the time.

 

[gingerjon]

30 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

The idea that there is no sporting rivalry in cricket and football between Lancashire and Yorkshire is completely wrong.

Whether there’s enough in rugby league is a good question, but I don’t think there’s a definitive answer at this stage.

One things for sure I would rather at this moment see a Roses match than England hammer France again.

 

Nobody has said there is no rivalry in cricket.

I assume the county FAs do actually play against each other from time to time, especially at age group football.

We have over one hundred years of people mostly shrugging their shoulders at Roses RL matches and the drive to have another go isn’t because of any burning desire to see the best of one county have a go at their rivals, it’s because no one can think of anything better.

Now, does that sound like a winner?

[Damien]

1 hour ago, redjonn said:

How did the Australians turn the interstate lack of interest and subsequent decline (aka our earlier Lancs /Yorks game) into the golden goose of  SoO which is basically the same.  All be it tweaking of whom is eligible to play.

As to those that forever bring up that Lancs is such that no clubs exist anymore if history tells me those that supported and fought in the original War of the Roses where not from those said counties.  From across the country they signed their allegiance to whichever House irrespective of geographical location but for other reasons.

Not saying RL Roses games are a good idea just that some arguments are just chucked out with no substantial basis and just tedious reasons to back up well we done that before whats the point of repeating failure.

But none of the conditions that made SOO work exist here. We don't have 2 competitions, as was the case at the dawn of SOO with the Brisbane Cup and NSWRL, we dont have decades of Queensland resentment from Australia selection, we don't have resentment from the previous iteration of interstate representative games that revolved around the residency rule and saw Queenslanders playing for NSW, we don't have that underdog mentality of one state with less players to choose from, and who had lost their best players for decades, giving it to their richer and more powerful rival. Even Queensland winning the first match against a completely disinterested NSW helped to ignite it.

In short it is a completely different situation. I suspect if SOO never existed and they tried to begin it now from scratch with the NRL as it now is, as a national competition with numerous Queensland teams, then it probably wouldn't work now either.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Damien

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Nobody has said there is no rivalry in cricket.

I assume the county FAs do actually play against each other from time to time, especially at age group football.

We have over one hundred years of people mostly shrugging their shoulders at Roses RL matches and the drive to have another go isn’t because of any burning desire to see the best of one county have a go at their rivals, it’s because no one can think of anything better.

Now, does that sound like a winner?

A roses RL match would be much more competitive for the players taking part than England vs France has been for a long time.

If you think nobody is bothered about attending a Roses game then what exactly is the difference between that and England vs France in front of three men and a dog at Leigh.

It would take rebuilding in terms of promotion but the ingredients are there for a rivalry when it comes to the roses.

Certainly it would be a better starting point than made up teams like north vs south or Exiles.

[Anita Bath]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

But none of the conditions that made SOO work exist here. We don't have 2 competitions, as was the case at the dawn of SOO with the Brisbane Cup and NSWRL, we dont have decades of Queensland resentment from Australia selection, we don't have resentment from the previous iteration of interstate representative games that revolved around the residency rule and saw Queenslanders playing for NSW, we don't have that underdog mentality of one state with less players to choose from, and who had lost their best players for decades, giving it to their richer and more powerful rival. Even Queensland winning the first match against a completely disinterested NSW helped to ignite it.

In short it is a completely different situation. I suspect if SOO never existed and they tried to begin it now from scratch with the NRL as it now is, as a national competition with numerous Queensland teams, then it probably wouldn't work now either.

More to the point, we dont have one side having struggled for independence from the other. Today, June 6 is Queensland day…the day the chains were broken in Queensland.  Happy Queensland Day, especially to the former masters south of the tweed river.

[Barley Mow]

7 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

More to the point, we dont have one side having struggled for independence from the other. Today, June 6 is Queensland day…the day the chains were broken in Queensland.  Happy Queensland Day, especially to the former masters south of the tweed river.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_York#/media/File:Kingdom_of_Jórvik.svg

[redjonn]

3 hours ago, Damien said:

But none of the conditions that made SOO work exist here. We don't have 2 competitions, as was the case at the dawn of SOO with the Brisbane Cup and NSWRL, we dont have decades of Queensland resentment from Australia selection, we don't have resentment from the previous iteration of interstate representative games that revolved around the residency rule and saw Queenslanders playing for NSW, we don't have that underdog mentality of one state with less players to choose from, and who had lost their best players for decades, giving it to their richer and more powerful rival. Even Queensland winning the first match against a completely disinterested NSW helped to ignite it.

In short it is a completely different situation. I suspect if SOO never existed and they tried to begin it now from scratch with the NRL as it now is, as a national competition with numerous Queensland teams, then it probably wouldn't work now either.

I asked the question as to.... How did the Australians turn the interstate lack of interest and subsequent decline (aka our earlier Lancs /Yorks game) into the golden goose of  SoO which is basically the same.  All be it tweaking of whom is eligible to play.

I don't think in my opinion you answered that...

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, redjonn said:

I asked the question as to.... How did the Australians turn the interstate lack of interest and subsequent decline (aka our earlier Lancs /Yorks game) into the golden goose of  SoO which is basically the same.  All be it tweaking of whom is eligible to play.

I don't think in my opinion you answered that...

Well I did as it is not as simple as that premise in isolation. If you don't like the answer then that is fine.

[redjonn]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

Well I did as it is not as simple as that premise in isolation. If you don't like the answer then that is fine.

No problem with the answer... you gave some reasons as to why it's a different situation but to me original inter-state plus the first/earlier SoO were not greatly attractive to fans/media I still wonder how they turned it around to being the golden goose it is now...