England/Gt Britain

[Harry Stottle]

31 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Stay classy.

You started it with your 'ageism' swipe, you know it is a chargeable offence these day's dont you?

[GeordieSaint]

We have an issue over here. We want excellence immediately from our younger players, especially with our halfbacks. We expect them to be game breakers every week tearing up defences and marshalling sides effortlessly around the park. We instantly expect them to be ready for an England shirt at the end of the season. Sadly expectations are rarely ever met. 

Dodd is 21. Smith is 23. Lewis is 22. Welsby is 22. They are still very very young. They are not going to be dominant halves at this stage in their career. They need time to develop, just the same as the likes of Long, McGuire, Williams and Lomax did. Smith was poor last year but has really come on this season. I suspect Dodd could do the same if Wellens releases the shackles on the team, and any mental restraints on the back of his shocking injury can be overcome. Time will tell of course; so I guess we will see. 

Williams and Smith are the halves at the end of the year IMO. 

Edited September 10, 2023 by GeordieSaint

[welshmagpie]

59 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I have forgotten how many times over my 60 years of involvement in this game that the next young world beater has come onto the scene "just give them time and expierience" I have heard it hundreds of times Magpie, still waiting.

I’m not calling them World beaters mate so maybe we’re talking about two very different things here. 
 

But then what I will say is that at least 3 of these will be involved in a winning team against NZ, Tonga and or Samoa (not putting Australia in there!) in the next 8 years

[Chris22]

I've never particularly rated Harry Smith, that is until this year where he has taken a big step up. Again, perhaps that comes from some impatience and expecting too much too soon. Once Lomax retires, I expect Welsby will move to the half backs on a more permanent basis. Along with Williams, these will probably be the contenders for the next World Cup. I'm not as excited about Pryce as others are but, like with Smith, maybe he'll kick on too because he has potential. It remains to be seen where he will end up.

[Harry Stottle]

18 minutes ago, welshmagpie said:

I’m not calling them World beaters mate so maybe we’re talking about two very different things here. 
 

But then what I will say is that at least 3 of these will be involved in a winning team against NZ, Tonga and or Samoa (not putting Australia in there!) in the next 8 years

Back in '84 when I attended the first RL coaching courses headed by Phil Larder I thought then that we can now get back to taking on the Aussies and Kiwis, now that have got a structure in place that will start at the bottom with every coach in the country from those who teach the juniors to the pro coaches having to attain levels of competence, it seemed to be working at one stage, but no I fear it has gone backwards.

Perhaps world beaters was the wrong terminology, you may very well be right that 3 of those will make the International team, But the big comparrison will be not we have here in that period but what will the NRL be producing in the same period, not just for Aus but for all the international teams it provides for.

[arcticchris]

Hopefully the NRL move for Will Pryce works out causing him to kick his game up a couple of levels and he can be the running threat from 1 or 6 interchanging with Welsby and then Dodd or Smith as the controlling player at 7. Mikey Lewis would be my next in line currently as he feels like something different that could unsettle the very best teams much like Lee Briers but with more pace and less guile.

I still rate George Williams but think we need to be planning for the next World Cup.

[WN83]

We’ve been in far worse spots in the last 20 years, then we currently are in the halfback positions. When George Williams is on top form there are few better. Harry Smith has take big strides forward this season as well but there’s still things to work on. Lomax is a class act and I think Welsby in time will become a halfback and a very good one. Lewis Dodd has gone backwards but in fairness I always felt the hype was a little much. I don’t really see a part of his game (creativity, ball handling, running, support play or kicking) that is top draw. 
 

If I was worrying about positions currently, it would be more about 1 and 9. There is no depth at all at fullback and if Welsby were unavailable we’d be in trouble and the 9 role doesn’t have a stand out candidate. Danny Walker goes ok, Daryl Clark can be a good player on his day, Litten has a bit about him and Brad O’Neill looks a longer term hope but people aren’t exactly jumping off the page at you. 

Edited September 10, 2023 by WN83

[welshmagpie]

34 minutes ago, WN83 said:

We’ve been in far worse spots in the last 20 years, then we currently are in the halfback positions. When George Williams is on top form there are few better. Harry Smith has take big strides forward this season as well but there’s still things to work on. Lomax is a class act and I think Welsby in time will become a halfback and a very good one. Lewis Dodd has gone backwards but in fairness I always felt the hype was a little much. I don’t really see a part of his game (creativity, ball handling, running, support play or kicking) that is top draw. 
 

If I was worrying about positions currently, it would be more about 1 and 9. There is no depth at all at fullback and if Welsby were unavailable we’d be in trouble and the 9 role doesn’t have a stand out candidate. Danny Walker goes ok, Daryl Clark can be a good player on his day, Litten has a bit about him and Brad O’Neill looks a longer term hope but people aren’t exactly jumping off the page at you. 

Agree massively on your 9 comment - does it rely on Leeming hitting form on these shores again? (Haven’t followed him in the NRL)

[Agbrigg]

5 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

 

Williams and Smith are the halves at the end of the year IMO. 

Yes logically one would think so. However you can never rule out the possibility of some young kid playing in the Queensland comp who had a grandad from Batley

[JM2010]

What about Dom Hodgson as a future England FB? How’s he getting on in Australia?

[welshmagpie]

6 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

What about Dom Hodgson as a future England FB? How’s he getting on in Australia?

Just been released by the Knights. Injury problems.

Bailey I’m assuming you mean?

[JohnM]

5 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Back in '84 when I attended the first RL coaching courses headed by Phil Larder I thought then that we can now get back to taking on the Aussies and Kiwis, now that have got a structure in place that will start at the bottom with every coach in the country from those who teach the juniors to the pro coaches having to attain levels of competence, it seemed to be working at one stage, but no I fear it has gone backwards.

Perhaps world beaters was the wrong terminology, you may very well be right that 3 of those will make the International team, But the big comparrison will be not we have here in that period but what will the NRL be producing in the same period, not just for Aus but for all the international teams it provides for.

Back in '84 when I attended the first RL coaching courses headed by Phil Larder. 

O tempora, o mores.

Where didit all go so wrong?

[JM2010]

1 hour ago, welshmagpie said:

Just been released by the Knights. Injury problems.

Bailey I’m assuming you mean?

Yeah Bailey. Shame, he seemed to be going well when he was fit

[Harry Stottle]

11 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Back in '84 when I attended the first RL coaching courses headed by Phil Larder. 

O tempora, o mores.

Where didit all go so wrong?

Stick to nancyball, suits you.

[ghost crayfish]

Along with George Williams, who has proven he would be among the better halves in the NRL, Smith looks like a pretty good player to me and seems to be improving all the time. Dodd is also a great talent and certainly impressed NRL observers at the start of the year. I think England are OK for halves, and about on par with any time since I've been watching the game.

[George Watt]

6 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

Along with George Williams, who has proven he would be among the better halves in the NRL, Smith looks like a pretty good player to me and seems to be improving all the time. Dodd is also a great talent and certainly impressed NRL observers at the start of the year. I think England are OK for halves, and about on par with any time since I've been watching the game.

Best halves I have ever seen would be 2 combinations. Bolton/ Murphy and Millward/ Hepworth. Both were Ashes winning halves with the latter in the last GB team to win the Ashes back in 1970.

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

Along with George Williams, who has proven he would be among the better halves in the NRL, Smith looks like a pretty good player to me and seems to be improving all the time. Dodd is also a great talent and certainly impressed NRL observers at the start of the year. I think England are OK for halves, and about on par with any time since I've been watching the game.

Present SL half backs by League position.

Wigan- Smith/French, Smith no where near the quality to play the top nations, French, Not Applicable

Catalan- Pierce/May NA

Saints - Dodd/Lomax,  Dodd not good enough, Lomax past sell by date for top internationals.

Leigh Lam/Reynolds, Lam NA, Reynolds not good enough

HKR - Abdul/Lewis, Abdul can't see him making the transition to top International Half, Lewis half a chance, but doubt he is Mr Wanes type of player.

Warrington - Williams/Drinkwater, William's will definatley be in but should he be in present form, he has only done anything of late in 2 easy fixtures he is not guiding the team about as he should, Drinkwater NA

Salford - Sneyd/Croft, doubt that Sneyd will add to his cap tally after last year, Croft NA

Leeds - Sezer/?, Sezer NA, 

Giants - Connor/Pryce/Russell/Lolohea/Fages, last 2 NA, can't see the others coming into contention, Pryce not even playing in the halves to assess.

Hull FC - Clifford/Truman, Clifford NA, Truman been out to much and not good enough for top international football.

Castleford Tigers - Miller/Austen, Millar NA, Austen having played for GB he qualifies but Doubt he has any chance whatsoever.

Wakefield - Gale/ Lino, Gale not any longer, Lino NA.

So out of 26 first choice halfbacks at our SL clubs 12 are Not Applicable being overseas, in my opinion the rest are either not good enough for top level  international football, or have past their sell by date, leaving only Williams who needs to find his form of last year and Lewis who is without doubt a gamble.

 

[fighting irish]

20 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Stick to nancyball, suits you.

Steady on 'Arry. Steady on. 

[Dunbar]

At the beginning of the year I would have put Dodd as the leading candidate to partnering Williams in the halves but I believe that Smith has come on well this year and has a very strong long kicking game while Williams is better in his short kicks.

Equally, Williams is a running threat, while Smith is 3rd in try assists this year.

I think they could compliment each other very well.

1. Welsby

6. Williams

7. Smith 

[Wolford6]

Let's hear it for the Bradford Bulls Academy:

1. Jake Trueman is a very good player. In my opinion, better than the two clubs he's played for. He's only 24.

2. Myles Lawford is very small but, at the very least, he'll be a Superleague regular.

3. George Flanagan Jr has all the skill ... he just needs to bulk up a bit like his Dad.

[DavidM]

On 09/09/2023 at 20:39, welshmagpie said:

Harry Smith

Lewis Dodd

Jonny Lomax

George Williams

Sam Walker*

Marc Sneyd

Jordan Abdull 

Mikey Lewis 

Will Pryce**
 

* English born despite have another accent. 

** Has many critics but is still only 20

As a Welshman mate, trust me when I say you’re alright for halves. Your stock is generally young too and will grow immensely as individuals over next 5-10 years. Your future’s bright. 

Yeh but who else 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

On 10/09/2023 at 09:50, Harry Stottle said:

I will give you back one of your pedantic answers, should be :-

When I was a Gosling not a Kid, that's a young goat.

If you want to be pedantic then I will point out I said 'variations on that phrase' so the use of the word kid instead of gosling is actually still correct. 

[bobbruce]

I won’t even bother trying to defend Dodd Id be wasting my breath/finger tips because everyone has made their mind up he’s useless including Saints fans. Which actually stopped his family going to games because of the abuse he gets from his own fans. All I will say is the people that matter the players he plays with his coaches and some very good judges like Andrew Johns all rate him. On Smith he had flaws in his game last year put he has clearly pushed on this year and is developing nicely. People moan we can’t produce half backs  but if we aren’t prepared to back these lads at a young age to develop we never will. Like all young players they learn by making mistakes. I would add I’m sure the majority of grand final winning teams have had British/European half backs so it is worth clubs sticking with it. 

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

I won’t even bother trying to defend Dodd Id be wasting my breath/finger tips because everyone has made their mind up he’s useless including Saints fans. Which actually stopped his family going to games because of the abuse he gets from his own fans. All I will say is the people that matter the players he plays with his coaches and some very good judges like Andrew Johns all rate him. On Smith he had flaws in his game last year put he has clearly pushed on this year and is developing nicely. People moan we can’t produce half backs  but if we aren’t prepared to back these lads at a young age to develop we never will. Like all young players they learn by making mistakes. I would add I’m sure the majority of grand final winning teams have had British/European half backs so it is worth clubs sticking with it. 

It's weird because last season everyone thought Dodd was the bees knees and how he was such a loss for the World Cup.

Now people are saying the same about Smith and how impressed they've been when 2 months ago he was getting loads of criticism from Wigan fans, never mind fans of other clubs, saying he wasn't good enough. Now people want him for England.

[bobbruce]

8 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's weird because last season everyone thought Dodd was the bees knees and how he was such a loss for the World Cup.

Now people are saying the same about Smith and how impressed they've been when 2 months ago he was getting loads of criticism from Wigan fans, never mind fans of other clubs, saying he wasn't good enough. Now people want him for England.

How fickle the RL fan who da thunk it.