England vs Samoa Series

[Eddie]

5 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

As opposed to what though? The All Stars? Yorkshire v Lancashire (God forbid)? The latter really would send the sport back to the dark ages

France, in London. 

[Click]

43 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

From memory, the CC Final viewing figure was down this year which would make the final test v Tonga the most watched RL match of the year.

 

The CC was lower than normal, but still hit 1m - which I don't think the last Tonga test managed

Edit:

 

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Click
Added second tweet

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, Click said:

 

The CC was lower than normal, but still hit 1m - which I don't think the last Tonga test managed

Edit:

 

 

I think I had the 784k in mind as the peak.

[bromleybulldog]

Fully understand the Samoa decision not to come. They'll have looked at the shambles of a series we put on v Tonga, the poor promotion, the poor attendances, the lack (I assume) of a large financial windfall, and sensibly have chosen to play v Tonga, NZ and the Aussies. Really can't blame them.

All the talk of replacing them with Scotland, Wales, Lebanon is inviting financial ruin and acute embarrassment. Maybe two games v France- in France- would work but the French would have to fit these around their WC qualification games.  And please, no talk of all star games at Warrington or Leigh.

For me , the RFL management have shown themselves to be incompetent and unfit for purpose. I can only imagine one way that we ever manage to recover- and that is if the Australian NRL actually take over from the RFL and run our game. Then they might have more of an incentive to support the NH game. Maybe. The alternatives hardly bear thinking about.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

Thriving?

I’m terms of a European domestic league, yes certainly. 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 hour ago, Archie Gordon said:

I can't see how you've calculated that unless your base is RL fans who support clubs. These aren't the sum total of RL fans in this country and they're definitely not the sum total of potential attendees at an England international - that's just how the RFL thinks.

How many attend the internationals matters because that is what makes the series profitable or not 

In the Tonga case not enough people did and I'm assuming the financial impact has limited what could be offered to Samoa ....and means that Samoa won't be coming....or anyone else by the looks of it 

We can argue the Tonga games got some people interested in RL via the million or so on BBC ......great but how do we monetise that?.....probably via the club game

[londonrlfan]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

France, in London. 

They're playing in the WCQ, so they're unavailable.

[BristolDevonCharlie]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

If we want any kind of meaningful criteria to incentivise nations to improve their foundations and build proper roots then approximately a third of those teams should be demoted and have no chance of being in the World Cup. It's a joke that some of those countries are there. Obviously nations who are doing the hard yards should be promoted to full members.

They have two years to sort it out otherwise they will be demoted. 

[BristolDevonCharlie]

Please no All Stars game or series!

Play Lebanon or Euro Cup. 

IRL / NRL keep saying Regional is the answer. 

But if it is the Euro Cup, and as England will be the only team in it not qualifying, they have to make it fair for the rest of the teams. Because as a final is likely to determine the World Series place, if England are in one group and France in another that is a likely final. Thus France have to just win the group and get to a World Cup. Not fair for the best team in England's group. 

Edited November 10, 2023 by BristolDevonCharlie

[StandOffHalf]

5 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I think virtually everyone should have to qualify for the WC (barring host nation and holders). It would instantly provide us with many more meaningful international matches. England v France/Wales/Whoever would still be as one-sided as always, but at least the matches would count for something.

People love to compare RL to football when it comes to P&R, so why don't we try and take other lessons from football's world cup? They have cycles of qualifiers > major tournament > qualifiers > major tournament. It fills their non-tournament years with meaningful games. Why don't we do this? We could spin 2 years' worth of European internationals out in to WC qualifiers, with home and away games against the likes of Wales, Scotland, Ireland, France, Greece. whoever. It wouldn't be the highest standard of game, but at least it would have meaning that the public could understand. It would be much easier to publicise games as well - advertising England v Italy as a World-Cup qualifier instantly gives it far more gravitas than a random one-off game.

Not for me. Let soccer do their thing.

I think England, France, Australia, NZ and PNG should be there as countries where the sport is played at a high level, with the other spots being filled by qualifiers.

Just my preference...

[StandOffHalf]

3 hours ago, jim_57 said:

PNG might be interested in being the replacement. I know they are meant to be in one of the Pacific comps but they will most likely not be promoted now because of Samoa’s decision (should be a playoff to decide, but there won’t be).

I could definitely understand them being somewhat dissatisfied with that and looking seriously at an offer to tour England, especially seeing as Fiji will be hosting so presumably no home games for them anyway. Playing 3 tests in England would be a tempting offer for them if the alternative is playing a half-strength Fiji and the Cook Islands again.

 

Alternatively I guess it’s going down and trying to find whatever games they can or inviting Lebanon over for a Northern Hemisphere 4N with France and Wales or Ireland.

The RFL should be on the blower to Port Moresby.

[Eddie]

46 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

They're playing in the WCQ, so they're unavailable.

They don’t even know when or where that is, I’m sure they can play more than one international, well I’d like to think so anyway. 

[Damien]

35 minutes ago, BristolDevonCharlie said:

They have two years to sort it out otherwise they will be demoted. 

Some of these countries have had 20+ years to sort it out. They shouldn't be full members now.

[BristolDevonCharlie]

16 minutes ago, Eddie said:

They don’t even know when or where that is, I’m sure they can play more than one international, well I’d like to think so anyway. 

See below.

Pretty sure there will be a Euro Cup in October / November next year (like was planned this year) and it will form the basis of European qualifying for RLWC 2026. The winner of which will play a World Series in 2025. 

3 hours ago, BristolDevonCharlie said:

https://www.intrl.sport/news/irl-board-update-details-confirmed-for-world-series-world-cups/

https://www.nrl.com/news/2022/06/29/international-window-to-capitalise-on-games-x-factor-abdo/

Basically, we know it will be 2024 (in order for a World Series in 2025) and we know the NRL are driving for the 'October window'. This means in future, I would suspect all RLWC qualifiers to be played in October / early November to allow NRL players to be free.  

 

3 hours ago, BristolDevonCharlie said:

What is best for them is qualifying for the World Cup. 

That will be in the format of a regional qualifying tournament against the other six European full member nations. This has essentially already been announced.

That will take four weeks minimum, which will be done post-season. Therefore a one-off mid-season test v England is the only likely fixture between the two in 2024, or even in 2025 (when England go to Australia post-season)

 

[Balmainboy]

A shame for England RL but no suprise really. 
 

Only way I can see regular meaningful games for England is against France. Just so sad the past few years for French RL. Felt there was real momentum with two SL clubs and a World Cup on the horizon…alas…

[Hopie]

International strategy for this Autumn? For this country that's going to be tough.

The NRL has the 6 highest ranked opponents tied up in their tournaments, anything below 5th isn't really worth playing when England's target should be to gain experience to build towards the aim of a World Cup final appearance and then a home series win in big stadiums against one or both of the world's best 2 teams.

Our best opponent in this hemisphere is basically ourselves. I'd arrange two trial games in the form of Yorkshire v Lancashire (but including all England qualified players) coached by the England assistants leading up to a one off test to crown the European champions against the winners of the Euro Cup in London, and there would have to be a pretty big incentive to make sure that opponent put out their best side. Admittedly the last game is the least likely one to be competitive.

The media focus should probably be on the other teams, 3 match series against France in Arenas (Manchester, London, and Leeds). Arrange a suitable women's series, could we get the Ferns across as the closest competition? York, London and A.N.Other.

[saintspete83]

For me it has to be against France in France.

3 tests
Paris (attractive to UK fans and spread the word)
Toulouse
Perpignan

It's not perfect but we need France to get up to speed and regular games are the only way. To start it won't be pretty but in 5+ years then who knows. 

On the back of what Catalans have been achieving this would be another boost to the French and the support is over there too. 

[Dave T]

49 minutes ago, saintspete83 said:

For me it has to be against France in France.

3 tests
Paris (attractive to UK fans and spread the word)
Toulouse
Perpignan

It's not perfect but we need France to get up to speed and regular games are the only way. To start it won't be pretty but in 5+ years then who knows. 

On the back of what Catalans have been achieving this would be another boost to the French and the support is over there too. 

If we can make it work TV and sponsor wise it'd be good. It'd be great if they made an effort and tried to really sell it to England fans as an event. A trip to France would be nice. 

[Jparrish]

1 hour ago, saintspete83 said:

For me it has to be against France in France.

3 tests
Paris (attractive to UK fans and spread the word)
Toulouse
Perpignan

It's not perfect but we need France to get up to speed and regular games are the only way. To start it won't be pretty but in 5+ years then who knows. 

On the back of what Catalans have been achieving this would be another boost to the French and the support is over there too. 

I think this is the way to go now. I'd mentioned this as a plan B previously as I was sceptical of Samoa.

France been the home team, and with more players available as its the end of the season hopefully wouldn't be three blowouts. There were cities interested in hosting WC games let's start approaching them. There's still a year to go let's be proactive 

 

Alternatively wait for the potential scraps of the pacific cup format

I'm assuming Samoa, Tonga, NZ and Oz will make up the top tier. Would FIJI or PNG be tempted to tour rather than play the second tier pacific bowl ?  Even if that is possible would be months before it would be confirmed.

[JM2010]

10 hours ago, crashmon said:

Hate to even ask this question

would it not be better to just accept England won't be playing any Internationals next year? Just write it off, and prepare for 2025 instead?

As much as it pains me to say it I think this might happen. The SH teams will probably all stay down under and it looks like France will be playing in a Euro qualifier. 
We might not have anyone to play 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

3 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

As much as it pains me to say it I think this might happen. The SH teams will probably all stay down under and it looks like France will be playing in a Euro qualifier. 
We might not have anyone to play 

I have a nagging feeling that they'll end up doing a 3-match roses series

[Pulga]

A couple of months into our 10 year international calendar and it's already looking more than a little shakey.

[Mathius Hellwege]

there was never a Samoa tour in this calendar

2025 Ashes cancellation would be a blow to the calendar

the Samoa "no" is just a fair answer to the breathtakingly stupid handling of the Tonga tour by the RFL (like 3 games in the M62 corridor with less than 40.000 fans in TOTAL)

[Luxembourger]

How about bringing Lebanon over for one game - make this part of a England men’s, women’s and wheelchair triple header at Leeds (maybe get the NRL/Aus govt to pay for PNG women to come as well, would make the women’s match more appealing). The men then fly down under to play PNG on their blank weekend in the pacific bowl, and then the following week play the 3rd placed team in the pacific champs as part of a double header with the final (at Eden Park). Could be attractive for the NRL - it fills out the TV schedule a bit and gives England a little exposure down under before the ashes tour

Edited November 10, 2023 by Luxembourger

[eal]

I think we have all seen a second-string French team have 60 points put on them enough times to last a life time. PNG are unlikely to tour as I imagine they will again host the second tier Pacific Comp? Perhaps Fiji are worth targeting? Other than that I don't really know what to suggest. A matchup against a touring NRL All-Stars team or Australian Prime Ministers XIII? Perhaps sell it to the Aussies as a way to develop more depth outside of their starting 17? There are no obviously good options.

Edited November 10, 2023 by eal