Neutral Refs Please - It's Just Awkward

[GaryO]

Sutton will not be impartial.

Thaler did a good job, he is our best referee by a country mile.

I thought Sutton had a great game in the Anzac test earlier this year.

[Alfie Taylor]

The only decision that IMO was clearly wrong was the England penalty when NZ were in possession, for not standing up to play the ball. Justice was done when Hardaker knocked on straight after. I thought NZ's two interceptions on the fifth tackle (the first one clearly a try-saver) both came from players who were yards offside when the ball was played. Be interesting to watch the video and see if that was indeed the case.

How he goes from being stood on the goal line to catching a ball that was being passed backwards away from him was superhuman!

[Dave T]

My nervousness around NRL refs is that even their bosses don't think they are capable of reffing a game on their own, so not sure they should get the biggest gig of the year next week.

 

I'd rather a French guy.

[bobbruce]

I thought that decision was fine - it was actually that rarest of beasts, a penalty for a voluntary tackle. Nightingale is already playing the ball by the time Thaler calls held, in order to get an advantage.

Yep you can clearly hear the ref tell him at the end it was for playing the ball before he'd called held.

[Maximus Decimus]

I thought that decision was fine - it was actually that rarest of beasts, a penalty for a voluntary tackle. Nightingale is already playing the ball by the time Thaler calls held, in order to get an advantage.

 

It was a good decision. IMO a lot of the niggly penalties that we get at the PTB are caused by the attacking player trying to step off the mark or play it incorrectly. This forces the defender to try and stop them and they then get pinged for it. 

[GeordieSaint]

Agree 100% and I think investing in developing welsh and French etc refs is a small but critical part of building a deeper sense of credibility for the international game.

 

Absolutely... I don't think it would be too hard to invest in this area of the game. We have many nations playing the game nowadays in internationals all over the world. Invest in developing top quality officials in those countries and you eventually reduce the burden on English and Australian referees having to jettison around the world constantly to officiate 'proper' fixtures. You also give some real credibility to the international game.

 

Oh... you also widen the refereeing pool to officiate in SL and the NRL while you are at it. The game really needs to conduct some blue-sky long term thinking!

[The Future is League]

This is not a dig at Thaler he is an outstanding ref. But there were a few contentious calls tonight and whether they were right or wrong (they were probably okay) it just feels wrong. On top of that we then have an English video ref. He had a tough call for the obstruction and again it didn't feel right hearing an English accent deciding if it was a try at a really crucial moment.

 

Please, we have an Australian ref here what are we messing about at? I don't like it and it doesn't happen in other sports. Why do we over complicate things?

I agree, but try telling that to the Aussies when we play them.

[DoubleD]

This is not a dig at Thaler he is an outstanding ref. But there were a few contentious calls tonight and whether they were right or wrong (they were probably okay) it just feels wrong. On top of that we then have an English video ref. He had a tough call for the obstruction and again it didn't feel right hearing an English accent deciding if it was a try at a really crucial moment.

 

Please, we have an Australian ref here what are we messing about at? I don't like it and it doesn't happen in other sports. Why do we over complicate things?

 

That's not true though, cricket has non-neutral umpires in a lot of international matches. Whilst neutral refs would be preferable, the focus should be on ensuring the best officials are refereeing regardless of nationality. You can always get a bad call etc regardless of nationality but rarely does it determine the outcome of the match.

 

I though Thaler did ok and whilst England may have got the rub of the green with a couple of decisions, it was certainly not obviously biased. I was surprised how slow the PTB was though for both teams. I notice Nightingale mentioned it today and saying that's the 1 ref system, which isn't really true because the PTB is never that slow in Super League so I'm not sure why it was in the Test. I can only think that because there was a lot of wrestling going on, Thaler wanted to keep the game flowing rather than blow up all the time. I would have preferred if he set the stall out early on a quicker PTB but that's only a relatively minor criticism

[Father Ted]

All the Kiwi players play in the NRL and are used to their interpretation.

An Australian referee is an NRL man and goes with their interpretation so how can he be neutral?

Alibert was French and could be considered neutral.

The Aussies objected to him, 1, because they didn't think he was good enough and 2 due to the fact he was a SL referee.

I don't buy into the Neutral idea with only two full time professional Leagues in our game.

We have to go with what we've got.

[deluded pom?]

All the Kiwi players play in the NRL and are used to their interpretation.

An Australian referee is an NRL man and goes with their interpretation so how can he be neutral?

Alibert was French and could be considered neutral.

The Aussies objected to him, 1, because they didn't think he was good enough and 2 due to the fact he was a SL referee.

I don't buy into the Neutral idea with only two full time professional Leagues in our game.

We have to go with what we've got.

To be as neutral as we can possibly be we only need refs of three different nationalities. More different nationalities would be the ideal but three or four is the best we can currently manage.

[Pyjamarama]

The focus should be on ensuring that we have an adequate pool of international refs to call on so that every international has a neutral ref. We aren’t talking about an insurmountable task here that would cost a fortune. Surely if we are serious about the international game the powers that be can set a realistically achievable target of training up an international pool of 3 (for example) fully qualified refs from half a dozen countries to referee international fixtures.

To the casual viewer, not having neutral refs just gives an image of a small time sport, & doesn’t give the impression of fair play. A football fan at work today who watched the game asked me why:

 

- an English ref

- was refereeing England RL

- in England.

 

I was stumped to give him an answer that didn‘t sound ridiculous.

[deluded pom?]

The focus should be on ensuring that we have an adequate pool of international refs to call on so that every international has a neutral ref. We aren’t talking about an insurmountable task here that would cost a fortune. Surely if we are serious about the international game the powers that be can set a realistically achievable target of training up an international pool of 3 (for example) fully qualified refs from half a dozen countries to referee international fixtures.

To the casual viewer, not having neutral refs just gives an image of a small time sport, & doesn’t give the impression of fair play. A football fan at work today who watched the game asked me why:

 

- an English ref

- was refereeing England RL

- in England.

 

I was stumped to give him an answer that didn‘t sound ridiculous.

He'll be even more confused if he watches the second game which will be reffed by an Aussie. You'll have to explain why the Aussie isn't doing all three matches. Good luck with that one.

[DoubleD]

The focus should be on ensuring that we have an adequate pool of international refs to call on so that every international has a neutral ref. We aren’t talking about an insurmountable task here that would cost a fortune. Surely if we are serious about the international game the powers that be can set a realistically achievable target of training up an international pool of 3 (for example) fully qualified refs from half a dozen countries to referee international fixtures.

To the casual viewer, not having neutral refs just gives an image of a small time sport, & doesn’t give the impression of fair play. A football fan at work today who watched the game asked me why:

- an English ref

- was refereeing England RL

- in England.

I was stumped to give him an answer that didn‘t sound ridiculous.

You could just explain it's because we have the best refs for the job and they're professional enough not to allow national allegiances to come into it, like cricket.

And we are a small time sport, we only have 2 professional leagues worldwide. If we're to have more neutral refs, they would have to be full time refs in either NRL or Super League

[bobbruce]

To be as neutral as we can possibly be we only need refs of three different nationalities. More different nationalities would be the ideal but three or four is the best we can currently manage.

Ideally we would have neutral refs but I don't think that's the issue any of the three teams have. Aussies and Kiwis don't want SL refs no matter what nationality they are and we don't want NRL refs. That's why when Aussie Ashley Klien was reffing in SL we wanted him to ref games against Australia and the Aussies objected to him. This will be a problem until we are all playing to the same rules and interpretations.

[Bob8]

My nervousness around NRL refs is that even their bosses don't think they are capable of reffing a game on their own, so not sure they should get the biggest gig of the year next week.

 

I'd rather a French guy.

I do not think the NRL or ARL are too bothered who wins these tests, so they would be trust worthy.

 

That is a sentence which says why the game is a bit fo a joke at times.

[Padge]

The focus should be on ensuring that we have an adequate pool of international refs to call on so that every international has a neutral ref. We aren’t talking about an insurmountable task here that would cost a fortune. Surely if we are serious about the international game the powers that be can set a realistically achievable target of training up an international pool of 3 (for example) fully qualified refs from half a dozen countries to referee international fixtures.

To the casual viewer, not having neutral refs just gives an image of a small time sport, & doesn’t give the impression of fair play. A football fan at work today who watched the game asked me why:

 

- an English ref

- was refereeing England RL

- in England.

 

I was stumped to give him an answer that didn‘t sound ridiculous.

 

I have never, EVER, had anyone as a casual watcher ask me in over fifty years of watching the game why we don't have neutral refs. Not once.

[Big Picture]

The focus should be on ensuring that we have an adequate pool of international refs to call on so that every international has a neutral ref. We aren’t talking about an insurmountable task here that would cost a fortune. Surely if we are serious about the international game the powers that be can set a realistically achievable target of training up an international pool of 3 (for example) fully qualified refs from half a dozen countries to referee international fixtures.

To the casual viewer, not having neutral refs just gives an image of a small time sport, & doesn’t give the impression of fair play. A football fan at work today who watched the game asked me why:

 

- an English ref

- was refereeing England RL

- in England.

 

I was stumped to give him an answer that didn‘t sound ridiculous.

That's because no such answer exists.  Having a ref from either competing country in charge is a sign of a small time sport which has to make do with what it can get, rather than do things right.

[Jeff Stein]

I have never, EVER, had anyone as a casual watcher ask me in over fifty years of watching the game why we don't have neutral refs. Not once.

 

I had not one but TWO ask me that question in the office today.

[Dave T]

I have never, EVER, had anyone as a casual watcher ask me in over fifty years of watching the game why we don't have neutral refs. Not once.

me neither. People on here have strange friends i find that ask very specific questions about certain issues.

[Futtocks]

Who's refereeing the third test?

[damp squib]

me neither. People on here have strange friends i find that ask very specific questions about certain issues.

Its a perfectly normal thing to remark upon the fact that the man refereeing England has an English accent. It happened when I was watching too.

[Allora]

I am not sure if the issue is just about neutral Refs.

A lot of the decisions that upset fans have has much to do with the Refs interpretations of the game from each Hemisphere than just bias from the ref.

[wackojacko]

me neither. People on here have strange friends i find that ask very specific questions about certain issues.

 

Not that strange, the refs mic'd up. Not that difficult to tell he's English from that and then seems bizarre that he's reffing an England game. The friends I was watching with asked.

[Just Browny]

me neither. People on here have strange friends i find that ask very specific questions about certain issues.

Sensational. I watched the match with four Kiwis and they all asked me why there were so few offloads.

[Dave T]

Its a perfectly normal thing to remark upon the fact that the man refereeing England has an English accent. It happened when I was watching too.

I accept that it may be asked in passing, but people on this board do tend to get asked quite specific things that they dislike - a bit like the examples of people in pubs questioning why the game has no P&R, or why the game has a salary cap, or why the Scotland team is made up of lads with English accents etc. when the questions normally always support an issue has with the poster.

 

I have genuinely never been asked or spoken to negatively about any of the above - yet the amount of people who do surprises me. 

 

By the way, if it is just RL fans speaking to each other about it, I don't think that really is an issue.