A low salary cap is impacting on our quality

[MaverickX111]

Saints were well outclassed by a young roosters team and my feelings are that the salary cap is just to low to attract real quality with a few exceptions.

We keep the cap artificially low to protect the weakest but that also keeps our great teams average also.

Let's see if Wigan youngsters can compete tonight

[super major]

Saints were well outclassed by a young roosters team and my feelings are that the salary cap is just to low to attract real quality with a few exceptions.

We keep the cap artificially low to protect the weakest but that also keeps our great teams average also.

 

We keep the cap low to protect the competition

[Kris]

Daft statement that, its not the cap that creates a lack of quality it just makes sure the best aren't all in one team too often

 

Its the lack of depth of quality not the cap that's the problem the going rate is the going rate and where oh where do we get that quality from...I know lets buy it from Australia and bin the cap, great idea

 

I for one as a Giants fan look back at second and third division rugby with a great fondness and would love Wigan to have the only decent team about who could win everything every year and be a virtual international team on there own while everyone else hangs on their coat tails and grabs the odd angry young man that's fed up there whist going bust paying his wages

 

NOT!

 

Greg Eden mentioned the sheer depth of squad at the Broncos and the numbers they had and the competition for places - most SL teams have threadbare squads as it is and we are repeatedly told its that lack of competition that's an issue

 

Leeds and to some extent Wigan and others have a thriving development set up and use the best players they have to push the squad to another level - if you dip for a couple of weeks then its off to the championship you go and some kid has a go

 

No wonder the Hull clubs are desperate to get an Academy running and Huddersfield have joined with Kirklees college to get that level of individual on board - that's where we are very much behind but where we as a competition are moving forward at a greater rate than ever before - hence the current England team and its relatively young age it will get younger rather than older under Bennett

 

Lots of other issues

 

NOT THE SALARY CAP and please don't mention P&R which is the usual addition to any conversation on these message boards because that's nothing to do with it either.

[sweaty craiq]

You cannot run a vibrant and expanding sport on survival of the weakest methodology. The sport needs more cash, its up to the clubs and the RFL to get that cash, a good start would be an unlimited cap and RFL to run Academies from 14 up from central funds. replacing all bar Leeds and Wigan, possibly Saints/Wire/Hull also. Make the game sexy with some huge signings, a cap set at the Sky funding is very poor and shows little ambition

[bobbruce]

Daft statement that, its not the cap that creates a lack of quality it just makes sure the best aren't all in one team too often

Its the lack of depth of quality not the cap that's the problem the going rate is the going rate and where oh where do we get that quality from...I know lets buy it from Australia and bin the cap, great idea

I for one as a Giants fan look back at second and third division rugby with a great fondness and would love Wigan to have the only decent team about who could win everything every year and be a virtual international team on there own while everyone else hangs on their coat tails and grabs the odd angry young man that's fed up there whist going bust paying his wages

NOT!

Greg Eden mentioned the sheer depth of squad at the Broncos and the numbers they had and the competition for places - most SL teams have threadbare squads as it is and we are repeatedly told its that lack of competition that's an issue

Leeds and to some extent Wigan and others have a thriving development set up and use the best players they have to push the squad to another level - if you dip for a couple of weeks then its off to the championship you go and some kid has a go

No wonder the Hull clubs are desperate to get an Academy running and Huddersfield have joined with Kirklees college to get that level of individual on board - that's where we are very much behind but where we as a competition are moving forward at a greater rate than ever before - hence the current England team and its relatively young age it will get younger rather than older under Bennett

Lots of other issues

NOT THE SALARY CAP and please don't mention P&R which is the usual addition to any conversation on these message boards because that's nothing to do with it either.

Of course the cap has an effect on the quality of player in the comp if it didn't why don't we set it at £500k. You not only lose the top end players to the NRL and RU but nobody knows how many young players change career because 25k is not enough to keep them in the sport. Same with P and R if you don't think it has an effect on recruitment watch what players the teams looking like they might be in trouble sign.

[knottla]

Some clubs are virtually insolvent now,all you're advocating is spend and burn, and not addressing the problem of producing our own quality players. I think the RL have tinkered about too much with pathways and reserve grades, it needs all clubs to have their own systems for producing future players, but the problem isn't confined to just Pro or Semi-Pro clubs, the main part is  the grassroots of the game and how to start attracting kids back to the sport, for that we need a strong leadership where both the amateur set-up and the RL get their act together and have a detailed plan of which path they want this game to follow. Without that the game will die.

[The Parksider]

Saints were well outclassed by a young roosters team and my feelings are that the salary cap is just to low to attract real quality with a few exceptions.

 

Big wages don't attract kids into playing RL.

 

Young men at 16 who have never played can't just decide to play RL for the big wages.

 

Of course the cap has an effect on the quality of player in the comp if it didn't why don't we set it at £500k. 

 

Your right we need to pay as much as we can Bob

 

If we could set it at £6,000,000 per club we could get lot's more union players having a go and we could outbid Australia and NZ for their players. 

 

The bottom line is would the moneybags chairman (I can only count one or two) attract new talent into the game or would they just buy other clubs better players??

 

Pay the same lads more?

[ELBOWSEYE]

Just read about the work that the wolves foundation are doing in promoting grass roots involvement. All 72 junior schools and 10 senior have coaching given and with an emphasis on joining clubs. Each amateur club has 2 first team players designated to them.

[sweaty craiq]

Big wages don't attract kids into playing RL.

 

Young men at 16 who have never played can't just decide to play RL for the big wages.

 

BUT THE VIABILITY OF A DECENT CAREER MAY ATTRACT THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE

 

Your right we need to pay as much as we can Bob

 

If we could set it at £6,000,000 per club we could get lot's more union players having a go and we could outbid Australia and NZ for their players. 

 

The bottom line is would the moneybags chairman (I can only count one or two) attract new talent into the game or would they just buy other clubs better players??

 

Pay the same lads more?

If that should happen then money flows to the roots anyway, if we want a SUPER league we have to cash it up and raise the profile. These games could harm the sport badly

[bamfordsbeans]

The salary cap needs significantly increasing.Over the years it has not kept up with inflation while our competitors the NRL and the various union competitions have significantly increased theirs.

The standard of SL is on the slide and some top leadership is required to arrest this.

The farcical status of reserve teams at the moment is an example of the state our game is in.

[JM2010]

Who would the extra money be paid to? Bringing more Australians over, rich clubs buying up all the talent from other clubs? It would have a detrimental effect as Super would become even more lopsided and teams would be put off from developing their own players as rich clubs would just take the best from them once they started to come good.

[thebull13]

Couldn't agree more. If clubs want to spend money then let them. The cap has to go if we want to compete.

[Yakstorm]

Are you really surprised that the level of depth isn't there anymore?

Over the past few years steps have been taken to scale back the depth of players available for Super League.

Reserve Grade was ripped apart (yes it's sorta back this year), DR was introduced meaning instead of every club having a full squad, you would have 1.5 squads between 2 teams. Academy was cut back... its now just one grade (so not all clubss have an Academy side) and it's only one age bracket (use to be two).

Across all these changes possibly cut between 100-200 players from the production line.

Meanwhile in that same time, NRL has expanded its U16s and U18s competitions, forced all NRL teams to have an U20s side and of course built up its Reserve Grade competitions.

Now whilst some might say the steps taken in England were designed to sharpen the pyramid and focus on pushing only the most talented to the top, the cuts also have limited opportunities for those players who weren't the standouts at the Jnr level.

Look at Cam Smith and Jonathan Thurston. We all know their stories, overlooked by many junior representative teams, Thurston struggled to even get an NRL contract anywhere, yet thankfully for Australia there were systems for them to continue to play in until someone recognized their potential. There are plenty of others like that.

These players whilst might not always be superstars add depth, put pressure on the more talented players not to take their spots for granted and thus help raise the standard.

[Adelaide Tiger]

Just read about the work that the wolves foundation are doing in promoting grass roots involvement. All 72 junior schools and 10 senior have coaching given and with an emphasis on joining clubs. Each amateur club has 2 first team players designated to them.

Excellent news.

I made the point a few months ago that all SL clubs should send one/two players to every school in their locality to promote the game to all kids and link in with the schools sports curriculum.

The most idiotic reply was something like 'I dont want Gareth Hock teaching my kid'. Says it all really about how blinkered some RL followers are.

[dkw]

How would raising the salary cap help with bringing youth through? All that would happen is the money would go to the top earners and Aussie imports. If money is to be spent it needs spending at youth level on coaches and facilities.

[phiggins]

How would raising the salary cap help with bringing youth through? All that would happen is the money would go to the top earners and Aussie imports. If money is to be spent it needs spending at youth level on coaches and facilities.

 

Exactly. While Salary cap might be a problem, the biggest problem is the fact that RL is trying to cut corners and do youth development on the cheap.

[Spidey]

Increasing the salary cap doesn't increase the elite standard playing pool. All you end up doing is overpaying average players.

Te strategy needs to be long term and increase the base size at the bottom of the pyramid. Until those issues are address salary increases at the top won't help

[Spidey]

Just read about the work that the wolves foundation are doing in promoting grass roots involvement. All 72 junior schools and 10 senior have coaching given and with an emphasis on joining clubs. Each amateur club has 2 first team players designated to them.

The stuff Warrington are doing are miles ahead of where they've been for years and commend them. I know speaking from a community club point of view we are more engaged with Warrington than we've ever been and hope it will bear fruit long term for us and the kids trying to make it as a RL player

[Padge]

The salary cap is not the real problem, TV money is the problem.

[Blind side johnny]

You cannot run a vibrant and expanding sport on survival of the weakest methodology. The sport needs more cash, its up to the clubs and the RFL to get that cash, a good start would be an unlimited cap and RFL to run Academies from 14 up from central funds. replacing all bar Leeds and Wigan, possibly Saints/Wire/Hull also. Make the game sexy with some huge signings, a cap set at the Sky funding is very poor and shows little ambition

 

What central funds are these SC?

[Derwent]

I'm all for increasing the cap on a club by club basis on the proviso that any club who requests an increase commits to spending double the increase on youth programmes including the local community game. Anything else is just paying the same players more money for no return.

[redjonn]

They are no doubt pro's and con's to having a salary cap.  To ensure a level competition between clubs you have to set the salary cap match lowest denominator - the least financially viable club. A level competition of lower quality club squads.   The other dilemma is when developments works and we have a potential high level candidate they are likely to be drawn to the NRL where the reward for all the hard work and sacrifice is far better. 

 

Their of course other pro's and con's which is most important depends upon what we want to achieve.  Salary cap is for sure a factor in trying to level competition between clubs. Otherwise why has it been introduced.  The same applies in having a massive difference in salary caps between NRL and RU and the SL.... it distorts ability of financially stronger clubs to compete.

 

It seems on the one hand some see having a salary cap as a way to achieve level competition, even for the weaker clubs, yet don't use same logic in not seeing the ridiculously low salary cap in SL a major burden with competing with NRL clubs, etc.

[Padge]

They are no doubt pro's and con's to having a salary cap.  To ensure a level competition between clubs you have to set the salary cap match lowest denominator - the least financially viable club. A level competition of lower quality club squads.   The other dilemma is when developments works and we have a potential high level candidate they are likely to be drawn to the NRL where the reward for all the hard work and sacrifice is far better. 

 

Their of course other pro's and con's which is most important depends upon what we want to achieve.  Salary cap is for sure a factor in trying to level competition between clubs. Otherwise why has it been introduced.  The same applies in having a massive difference in salary caps between NRL and RU and the SL.... it distorts ability of financially stronger clubs to compete.

 

It seems on the one hand some see having a salary cap as a way to achieve level competition, even for the weaker clubs, yet don't use same logic in not seeing the ridiculously low salary cap in SL a major burden with competing with NRL clubs, etc.

 

The salary cap was never intended to be a leveller, that is just what happens when you have a low cap.

 

The cap was brought in an attempt prevent clubs stumbling from financial crisis to financial crisis and to encourage clubs to invest in facilities. 

[Farmduck]

The salary cap was never intended to be a leveller, that is just what happens when you have a low cap.

 

The cap was brought in an attempt prevent clubs stumbling from financial crisis to financial crisis and to encourage clubs to invest in facilities. 

In OZ the cap was definitely introduced to stop the stronger clubs stockpiling all the talent.

[Padge]

In OZ the cap was definitely introduced to stop the stronger clubs stockpiling all the talent.

 

When the cap was first introduced it was set with a 50% of income limit, this was to ensure the clubs didn't overspend on players wages and bust the club, after a short while the clubs demanded a fixed cap, result was that the cap never did what it was brought in to do and clubs overspent.

 

As far as its original purpose goes it is now a pointless exercise. It may be having the side-effect of spreading talent around but because some clubs incomes are so low they are trying every means possible to avoid running anything other than a first team, result a dearth of British RL talent. 

 

Its getting time to cut SL down to 10.