Eric Perez buys Hemel’s licence, with plans to create second Canadian club (Merged Threads)

[clogdance]

1 hour ago, Copa said:

Perez is a capable man of action so this will be very interesting.

I know this is really bizarre/crazy, but why doesn't he 'start' a Canadian League ! 

[dealwithit]

31 minutes ago, clogdance said:

I know this is really bizarre/crazy, but why doesn't he 'start' a Canadian League ! 

He did

[Kayakman]

1 hour ago, clogdance said:

I know this is really bizarre/crazy, but why doesn't he 'start' a Canadian League ! 

He has been there and done that!...this guy gets things done...give him a go.

Let him a a go at it and find out what he has got...if he can resurrect Hemel into a major rugby power he deserves even the support of Parky.

[Hemel Stag]

3 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

   They do it in association football - so the RFL copied.

    In association football the division beneath the Premier League became The Championship,then the division below that became League 1.

    The League 1 in our sport,was titled National League 2 but with those pesky French and Canadian clubs it extended beyond National.

    We had best ignore any reference to those pesky Welsh clubs and the sluggish RFL.

The Soccer Dudes have been particularly provocative by inventing a title, Women's Top Flight Soccer is called  "Super League" ! !

We need something fresh ?

[Manfred Mann]

If Perez creates a club in Montreal, and it eventually reaches Super League, the we will have to change the name of Super League (Europe) to the North Atlantic Super League (NASL).

Personally, I like the idea.

[RayCee]

7 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

If Perez creates a club in Montreal, and it eventually reaches Super League, the we will have to change the name of Super League (Europe) to the North Atlantic Super League (NASL).

Personally, I like the idea.

I like North Atlantic Sporting Association (NASA), the catch phrase “The sky's the limit”. 

[Dr Tim Whatley]

10 hours ago, Kayakman said:

He has been there and done that!...this guy gets things done...give him a go.

Let him a a go at it and find out what he has got...if he can resurrect Hemel into a major rugby power he deserves even the support of Parky.

As much as I'd be delighted to see Hemel Stags become 'a major rugby power', the term 'resurrect' implies they've been one previously!

[welshmagpie]

7 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

If Perez creates a club in Montreal, and it eventually reaches Super League, the we will have to change the name of Super League (Europe) to the North Atlantic Super League (NASL).

Personally, I like the idea.

There’s already a NASL I believe:

North American soccer League

[tms]

10 hours ago, Hemel Stag said:

The Soccer Dudes have been particularly provocative by inventing a title, Women's Top Flight Soccer is called  "Super League" ! !

We need something fresh ?

DONT forget the Vitality Netball Superleague

[Smudger06]

1 hour ago, RayCee said:

I like North Atlantic Sporting Association (NASA), the catch phrase “The sky's the limit”. 

'The sky's not the limit or 'to infinity and beyond' 

[Yorks Tim]

15 hours ago, Hemel Stag said:

No, for reasons unknown, there is no promotion / relegation between League 1 and the Southern Conference. Calling it the 4th tier only works in the sense that it is the next level of skill and scale beyond League 1. But then why call what is effectively the 3rd Division League 1? 

My understanding is that this is because League 1 is a (semi-)professional division and the Conference is amateur.

Entry to L1 is by application / invitation and teams are guaranteed so many years (3?) without the threat of relegation to allow them to bed themselves in to professional level. It is obv a big commitment and so a kind of safeguarding is important to make it work. 

[Yorks Tim]

I would think that any team that has proved themselves in the NCL or the SC and has the desire and a solid plan for life in League 1 would be welcomed by the RFL, given the shortage of teams this season.

[Moscow01]

I’m not quite sure people realise the massive difference between League 1 and the amateur game. The very best amateur teams would probably beat West Wales but that’s about it. Why would they want to join League 1 if it meant getting thrashed every week? 

Many of the teams in the best amateur league are happy being big fish in a small pool. They neither have the desire, nor resources to go semi-pro. 

 

If a team from the amatuer division wants wants to join League 1 they need to show the RFL they are capable of supporting  themselves long term. 

[Bert1]

NARL. Good luck to Perez, Hemel Stags and all the other SCL teams.

It would be a real boost to the game if the NCL and SCL were equally strong. I would add a grand final between the winners (all ages). A festival of Rugby if it was held at a club with a few pitches could have all the games over a day or weekend it would be a great day with the seniors as the main event.

[JCXV]

18 hours ago, North but south said:

Really can't wait for this to be added to his essay. If it's not true he'll state Perez failed to do what he said, if true he's destroying another club on his crusade against rugby league.

RL seems like a zero-sum game. In order for a new club to start, an old one has to disappear. 

[Tre Cool]

1 hour ago, JCXV said:

RL seems like a zero-sum game. In order for a new club to start, an old one has to disappear. 

Hemel were never looking like making a success of the pro leagues though.  They spent a loooong time trying to get there then didn't seem able to kick on on or off the pitch.

Im all for replacing them with a stronger club whether new or old.

My main concern is whether the RFL / SL have any kind of plan to absorb new clubs with any idea how to increase the financial income for the league.  They are hugely reliant on the big attendances at the major annual events.  How do they replace that money with potentially Toulouse, Toronto, London and another in the top flight? What is the plan?  Maybe there is one, and I'm sure there's a way for a savvy organisation to monetise it but...... 

[Cdd]

I’ve understood at times why RL fans have been so wary of expansion and people making false promises. We’ve seen too much of it down the years with PSG and London. On other occasions we’ve seen the game try to expand to places which will never be able to sustain the kind of pro club we want to see in SL like with Crusaders.

When Perez stepped in with his Toronto fantasy I knew things were different, a big market with room for growth, endless commercial partnership opportunities and a perfect stadium location. 

I think Perez has proved he can be trusted by the game and whatever he’s planning here i’ve no doubt he can make a success of it.

[The Parksider]

1 hour ago, Cdd said:

I’ve understood at times why RL fans have been so wary of expansion and people making false promises. We’ve seen too much of it down the years with PSG and London. On other occasions we’ve seen the game try to expand to places which will never be able to sustain the kind of pro club we want to see in SL like with Crusaders.

With his fantasy I knew things were different, a big market with room for growth, endless commercial partnership opportunities and a perfect stadium location. 

I'm sorry but you know nothing, if you think the criteria you list are actually expansion. Let me explain............ 

When SL bosses went to Toulouse they set out what expansion of the professional game meant, it was two things. Mr. Lenegan said it was:-

1. An addition to the professional playing pool through developing more quality northern hemisphere pro-RL Players

2. An addition to and thereby increase in  the total paying TV deal(s).

Toulouse understood this simple principle and decided to just soldier on in the Championship.

We have 12 clubs with about 19 quality players each from England and a few French, and the odd Welshman. That is 228 players. If you want to put overseas non-heartlands clubs into SL they have to take players off other clubs here or they could not compete. If they do this one less club here can compete for every new club. This is "substitution" and the problem is if you put clubs who do not develop players (and never will for at least decades) into SL and push out clubs that DO, that player pool will decrease and then your in the mire......

So you hopefully get it that expansion isn't getting rid of clubs and their academies along the M62 and shipping their players hundreds if not thousands of miles away???.

Now there is the TV deal currently there is a professional game in England because enough English people love RL enough to pay money to SKY to watch it on TV. So if the English clubs are removed for overseas clubs then it is likely less fans here will bother with their subscriptions any more and the TV deal will reduce. It is to reduce anyway so it may well be by 2021 there is just enough TV money for 10 clubs who will need to be English because those who pay the piper call the tune.

So overseas clubs like Toulouse need to bring additional TV money in to justify a Superleague place. That is what the SL bosses said to them and they even told them which TV channels to approach.

It is of course nice to chat about a world league fantasy, like Scotchy does, but the cold hard business reality is vastly different. The English who support RL across the M62 who also develop players for the game, and who put money into the game whether directors or fans, either by turnstyle or TV subs,  own the game and they are hardly likely to stand by whilst their clubs are progressively replaced by foreign clubs who offer no real expansion at all, and who will if allowed in progressively cheese fans and rich backers off here.

Is Toulouse in and Huddersfield out any earthly benefit to the game? 

Is Barcelona in and Hull.K.R. out any good for the game?

Is Belgrade in and Castleford out a positive move??

This is something I have explained many times over two years, so if you or any one else simply want to dream about the future that's fine. If you want to be realistic about it then go back to the top and read it again and if you disagree, write to Mr. Lenegan and tell him he is wrong.

[Lowdesert]

19 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

I'm sorry but you know nothing, if you think the criteria you list are actually expansion. Let me explain............ 

When SL bosses went to Toulouse they set out what expansion of the professional game meant, it was two things:-

1. An addition to the professional playing pool through developing more quality northern hemisphere pro-RL Players

2. An addition to and thereby increase in  the total paying TV deal(s).

Toulouse understood this simple principle and decided to just soldier on in the Championship.

We have 12 clubs with about 19 quality players each from England and a few French, and the odd Welshman. That is 228 players. If you want to put overseas non-heartlands clubs into SL they have to take players off other clubs here or they could not compete. If they do this one less club here can compete for every new club. This is "substitution" and the problem is if you put clubs who do not develop players (and never will for at least decades) into SL and push out clubs that DO, that player pool will decrease and then your in the mire......

So you hopefully get it that expansion isn't getting rid of clubs and their academies along the M62 and shipping their players hundreds if not thousands of miles away???.

Now there is the TV deal currently there is a professional game in England because enough English people love RL enough to pay money to SKY to watch it on TV. So if the English clubs are removed for overseas clubs then it is likely less fans here will bother with their subscriptions any more and the TV deal will reduce. It is to reduce anyway so it may well be by 2021 there is just enough TV money for 10 clubs who will need to be English because those who pay the piper call the tune.

So overseas clubs like Toulouse need to bring additional TV money in to justify a Superleague place. That is what the SL bosses said to them and they even told them which TV channels to approach.

It is of course nice to chat about a world league fantasy, like Scotchy does, but the cold hard business reality is vastly different. The English who support RL across the M62 who also develop players for the game, and who put money into the game whether directors or fans, either by turnstyle or TV subs,  own the game and they are hardly likely to stand by whilst their clubs are progressively replaced by foreign clubs who offer no real expansion at all, and who will if allowed in progressively cheese fans and rich backers off here.

Is Toulouse in and Huddersfield out any earthly benefit to the game? 

Is Barcelona in and Hull.K.R. out any good for the game?

Is Belgrade in and Castleford out a positive move??

This is something I have explained many times over two years, so if you simply want to dream about the future that's fine. If you want to be realistic about it then go back to the top and read it again and if you disagree, write to Mr. Lenegan and tell him he is wrong.

2. Only Leneghan went to TO.  He gave advice, nothing else.

Dont you read your own clippings Parky

[Cdd]

22 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

I'm sorry but you know nothing, if you think the criteria you list are actually expansion. Let me explain............ 

When SL bosses went to Toulouse they set out what expansion of the professional game meant, it was two things:-

1. An addition to the professional playing pool through developing more quality northern hemisphere pro-RL Players

2. An addition to and thereby increase in  the total paying TV deal(s).

Toulouse understood this simple principle and decided to just soldier on in the Championship.

We have 12 clubs with about 19 quality players each from England and a few French, and the odd Welshman. That is 228 players. If you want to put overseas non-heartlands clubs into SL they have to take players off other clubs here or they could not compete. If they do this one less club here can compete for every new club. This is "substitution" and the problem is if you put clubs who do not develop players (and never will for at least decades) into SL and push out clubs that DO, that player pool will decrease and then your in the mire......

So you hopefully get it that expansion isn't getting rid of clubs and their academies along the M62 and shipping their players hundreds if not thousands of miles away???.

Now there is the TV deal currently there is a professional game in England because enough English people love RL enough to pay money to SKY to watch it on TV. So if the English clubs are removed for overseas clubs then it is likely less fans here will bother with their subscriptions any more and the TV deal will reduce. It is to reduce anyway so it may well be by 2021 there is just enough TV money for 10 clubs who will need to be English because those who pay the piper call the tune.

So overseas clubs like Toulouse need to bring additional TV money in to justify a Superleague place. That is what the SL bosses said to them and they even told them which TV channels to approach.

It is of course nice to chat about a world league fantasy, like Scotchy does, but the cold hard business reality is vastly different. The English who support RL across the M62 who also develop players for the game, and who put money into the game whether directors or fans, either by turnstyle or TV subs,  own the game and they are hardly likely to stand by whilst their clubs are progressively replaced by foreign clubs who offer no real expansion at all, and who will if allowed in progressively cheese fans and rich backers off here.

Is Toulouse in and Huddersfield out any earthly benefit to the game? 

Is Barcelona in and Hull.K.R. out any good for the game?

Is Belgrade in and Castleford out a positive move??

This is something I have explained many times over two years, so if you simply want to dream about the future that's fine. If you want to be realistic about it then go back to the top and read it again and if you disagree, write to Mr. Lenegan and tell him he is wrong.

That’s a really long winded answer to a question I didn’t ask.

To say I know nothing seems a little prejudice, I’ve worked in marketing for too rugby clubs in both codes.

I agree with the criteria set out for expansion, a club must either produce players and increase the talent pool OR increase the profile of the competition allowing for extra revenue through sponsorship and broadcasting. 

1. Obviously Toronto don’t currently produce players for the sport but it won’t happen overnight, and it certainly won’t happen without a flagship club either. It may take 20 years but that’s the kind of long term thinking we need.

2. Toronto have already proved they are attractive to broadcasters. There’s more money coming into the championship this year purely because they have facilitated a TV deal. Sponsorship is much easier to sell when your team is on TV. Small steps but they’re only in year 3.

You ask these questions about Toulouse in or Belgrade in and Hull KR and Castleford out....

Ridiculous, because I have not claimed I want Belgrade in or Hull KR or Castleford our for that matter. 

I want to see Castleford and Hull KR thriving I don’t want to see anyone ‘out’.

I think we should be adding clubs like Toulouse and Toronto slowly but surely as and when they are ready IN ADDITION (not instead of) traditional clubs.

I believe a competition with big traditional clubs like Wigan, Leeds, Hull, Warrington along with revitalised clubs such as Bradford, Huddersfield, Hull KR, Castleford, York and who knows maybe even Widnes is an exciting prospect for broadcasters.... especially if you throw in Catalans, Toulouse and Toronto into the mix. 

Im sure you’re question will be where will the extra players come from? (For two or three extra clubs)

1. Dozens of players are being lost to the game from clubs like Wigan because of the lack of a reserves structure. Keeping these players in the game (Tom Davies was almost one who left) will increase our player pool.

2. There is tonnes of talent in the championship many of whom could make the step up to super league.

3. Plenty of players playing in the NSW and  Queensland cup who could make the step up given the opportunity.

4. Plenty of french talent not always getting the opportunity at Toulouse or Catalans.

Adding two or three expansion clubs isn’t the fantasy land you seem to think it is, nor does it have to be at the cost of traditional clubs.

Widnes and Bradford are not where they are because of Toronto and Toulouse. I think both could be of more value to the league than Salford if they were given the same handout by Sky, but as soon as that money stopped what chance do they have? 

[Angelic Cynic]

Parksider wroteI

Quote

 

Is Toulouse in and Huddersfield out any earthly benefit to the game? 

Is Barcelona in and Hull.K.R. out any good for the game?

Is Belgrade in and Castleford out a positive move??

 

    It may appeal to those television executives who,it seems,the sport depends on for finance and a future.

     The first place,Toulouse,probably attracts larger attendances than the home of rugby league,and probably has more home grown players at the club.

    Hull KR now share an academy,have an overseas coach and very few home grown first team squad members.

    The M62 clubs ain't advanced very far in all those years they have existed.

    Staying on thread - letting an outside view have a go and try to improve things may work.

      Relying on largesse from one or two individuals or television companies does seem a bit 'clutching at straws' and lacking in planning.

     I would like some confirmation that Argyle and Perez are still working together - or it may be that they have followed the haphazard approach to rugby league the administrators of the sport seem to have used over the decades.

[Tonka]

43 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

I'm sorry but you know nothing, if you think the criteria you list are actually expansion. Let me explain............ 

When SL bosses went to Toulouse they set out what expansion of the professional game meant, it was two things. Mr. Lenegan said it was:-

1. An addition to the professional playing pool through developing more quality northern hemisphere pro-RL Players

2. An addition to and thereby increase in  the total paying TV deal(s).

Toulouse understood this simple principle and decided to just soldier on in the Championship.

We have 12 clubs with about 19 quality players each from England and a few French, and the odd Welshman. That is 228 players. If you want to put overseas non-heartlands clubs into SL they have to take players off other clubs here or they could not compete. If they do this one less club here can compete for every new club. This is "substitution" and the problem is if you put clubs who do not develop players (and never will for at least decades) into SL and push out clubs that DO, that player pool will decrease and then your in the mire......

So you hopefully get it that expansion isn't getting rid of clubs and their academies along the M62 and shipping their players hundreds if not thousands of miles away???.

Now there is the TV deal currently there is a professional game in England because enough English people love RL enough to pay money to SKY to watch it on TV. So if the English clubs are removed for overseas clubs then it is likely less fans here will bother with their subscriptions any more and the TV deal will reduce. It is to reduce anyway so it may well be by 2021 there is just enough TV money for 10 clubs who will need to be English because those who pay the piper call the tune.

So overseas clubs like Toulouse need to bring additional TV money in to justify a Superleague place. That is what the SL bosses said to them and they even told them which TV channels to approach.

It is of course nice to chat about a world league fantasy, like Scotchy does, but the cold hard business reality is vastly different. The English who support RL across the M62 who also develop players for the game, and who put money into the game whether directors or fans, either by turnstyle or TV subs,  own the game and they are hardly likely to stand by whilst their clubs are progressively replaced by foreign clubs who offer no real expansion at all, and who will if allowed in progressively cheese fans and rich backers off here.

Is Toulouse in and Huddersfield out any earthly benefit to the game? 

Is Barcelona in and Hull.K.R. out any good for the game?

Is Belgrade in and Castleford out a positive move??

This is something I have explained many times over two years, so if you or any one else simply want to dream about the future that's fine. If you want to be realistic about it then go back to the top and read it again and if you disagree, write to Mr. Lenegan and tell him he is wrong.

It's a bit of a catch 22 though Parky because in the last 20 years when the bigger sports have gone increasingly global we're stuck on the M62 corridor and much as I like many aspects of that dynamic we're getting left further and further behind in many ways.  I don't subscribe the view that the sport is "dying" but I do think that the sport and its fans don't enjoy the prominence they deserve.  We've been 124 years predominantly in the North and that won't ever appeal to big sponsors or do anything to increase player numbers.

[fevtom]

14 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

 

    It may appeal to those television executives who,it seems,the sport depends on for finance and a future.

     The first place,Toulouse,probably attracts larger attendances than the home of rugby league,and probably has more home grown players at the club.

 

I'm all for Toulouse but the first point is just untrue, Toulouse last home game attracted 1700. There's certainly room for growth but it's hardly going to make the game look like a top level competition.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

4 minutes ago, fevtom said:

I'm all for Toulouse but the first point is just untrue, Toulouse last home game attracted 1700. There's certainly room for growth but it's hardly going to make the game look like a top level competition.

Like probably every club outside of SL, their attendances would likely jump if they were in SL. 

[Cdd]

6 minutes ago, fevtom said:

I'm all for Toulouse but the first point is just untrue, Toulouse last home game attracted 1700. There's certainly room for growth but it's hardly going to make the game look like a top level competition.

I’m not too concerned by their attendances to start with, the big plus for Toulouse is their player development, and rivalry with Catalans which could increase the profile of RL sin France and increase the chances of a better broadcasting deal.