Rumours of a 14 team SL won't go away

[Scubby]

45 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

The most obvious decision is to put Toronto and Tolouse into SL next year. But no doubt our game won't bother.

If they were both in the Championship Grand final and finished top two in the ladder then fair enough. 

[doc]

20 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Good, about time we had a structure change, we’ve had the current one six months. 

No, no, the next scheduled structure change is 2022. This would be an interim change, followed by a supplementary change if needed. It's all very simple......

[Mister Ting]

16 hours ago, Chamey said:

A 14 team SL just makes sense, it gets rid of the loop fixtures, and allows the top level to expand sensibly. The rumours won't go away because it's entirely logical.

I thought logical rumours would be a sign that logic was the last thing on the cards.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Mattrhino said:

The most obvious decision is to put Toronto and Tolouse into SL next year. But no doubt our game won't bother.

Obvious, adjective :- easily perceived or understood; clear, self-evident, or apparent.

No it isn't obvious Matt.

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, Scubby said:

If they were both in the Championship Grand final and finished top two in the ladder then fair enough. 

And if another team reached the GF instead of both of TWP and TO should that other team be promoted, or is this situation only applicable for the two mentioned teams reaching the final?

[RayCee]

3 hours ago, doc said:

No, no, the next scheduled structure change is 2022. This would be an interim change, followed by a supplementary change if needed. It's all very simple......

It would be very simple if you hadn’t forgotten about the provisional change wedged in there too.

[DimmestStar]

The current SKY deal was negotiated at a time when the previous deal still had 2 years to run. It provided an immediate cash payment to the clubs, a massive yearly increase which included the 2 remaining years and long term security.

That was at a time when TV rights were becoming ever more expensive and SKY were losing out to an aggressive BT looking to get in on the act. SKY acted quickly to secure Super League  for 7 years and that deal remains in place for this year next year and the year after.

The current deal gives unprecedented income to the championship but SL clubs will be putting a stop to that as sure as eggs are eggs.They are not looking to share with foreign clubs either.

The landscape has changed significantly and will continue to. Live streaming is now common but as yet doesn't provide income. The RFL no longer sells the rights they now belong to the SL clubs.

If and only if additional TV income emerges then perhaps a 14 team Super League becomes a possibility. Seeing as though negotiations haven't even started for rights from 2022 onward it's hard to see any changes right now.

 

[paulwalker71]

I think that the sport needs to take a view on promotion / relegation vs (some version of) licensing.

Simply 'adding Toronto and Toulouse to create a 14 team SL' is clearly and obviously 100% unfair when the sport has currently committed itself to promotion / relegation.

Now, it does look likely that Toronto will 'solve' part of that by earning promotion this season, but that is by no means guaranteed as London demonstrated last season. It's even less certain who they will replace under the existing rules of the competition (again, I remind you, we said there would be promotion AND relegation when the season started).

Surely, the fairest solution is to see what pans out this year. Then make the decision that at the end of the 2020 season, there will be two team promoted (the league winner and one via a play-off if Sky demand the 'sudden death' element) and none relegated. That gives those teams who want to make a genuine promotion bid to prepare properly without (to use Scotchy's often repeated phrase) 'going pop'. There could even be some minimum criteria to do with finances, youth development, support base etc. That gives the likes of Toulouse, Leigh, Bradford, York the option - should they choose to do so - of making a really credible attempt to earn promotion.

OR, you go for a completely open and transparent licensing process which ALL clubs, including the self-entitled SL clubs have to participate in as well. Proper criteria on grounds, youth, finances etc etc, with the licenses fixed for five years. Then add to the 14 clubs as and when other clubs meet the same criteria. I have no issue with that model!

What you don't do is change the rules the competition half way through the season because it's convenient that Toronto and Toulouse happen to be the top 2 of the Championship, whilst at the same time protecting Leeds and Hull KR from relegation. And then pull up the drawbridge, condemning the rest of us to permanent obscurity with no central funding from the next TV deal.

[doc]

3 hours ago, RayCee said:

It would be very simple if you hadn’t forgotten about the provisional change wedged in there too.

Blast!

[sweaty craiq]

Two rumours, two tens with annual p and r and 16 clubs. Both structures involve bonds, and a couple of clubs in SL cant afford them.

[Mumby Magic]

The fairest solution is to let the game on the field decide who is in the TWELVE. If we need 14 or even 16 team SL then plan it for 2023 or further. As I've stated countless times, taken from RLW, 23 changes to league structure or P and R in 30 years makes our game amateurish then we bemoan the SUN from withdrawing coverage!! If our sport is strong in the Championship and League 1 that's great but it doesn't mean we need to shoehorn teams in. Whether it's Fev, TO or the Wolfpack that go up or Leeds, KR or London that come down so be it. That's the excitement and intriguing thing about our sport.

Leave it alone now!!

[The Future is League]

I really can't see there being a 14 team Super League next season with zero chance of Leeds going down. I do honestly think though that if Leeds had finished bottom there would have been a revamp of Super League

[Denton Rovers RLFC]

On 09/06/2019 at 19:08, Man of Kent said:

Do you mean journalists/Wigan/Leeds/HKR folk are telling you this directly? 

fixed that for you.

[Harry Stottle]

On 10/06/2019 at 19:34, paulwalker71 said:

I think that the sport needs to take a view on promotion / relegation vs (some version of) licensing.

Simply 'adding Toronto and Toulouse to create a 14 team SL' is clearly and obviously 100% unfair when the sport has currently committed itself to promotion / relegation.

Now, it does look likely that Toronto will 'solve' part of that by earning promotion this season, but that is by no means guaranteed as London demonstrated last season. It's even less certain who they will replace under the existing rules of the competition (again, I remind you, we said there would be promotion AND relegation when the season started).

Surely, the fairest solution is to see what pans out this year. Then make the decision that at the end of the 2020 season, there will be two team promoted (the league winner and one via a play-off if Sky demand the 'sudden death' element) and none relegated. That gives those teams who want to make a genuine promotion bid to prepare properly without (to use Scotchy's often repeated phrase) 'going pop'. There could even be some minimum criteria to do with finances, youth development, support base etc. That gives the likes of Toulouse, Leigh, Bradford, York the option - should they choose to do so - of making a really credible attempt to earn promotion.

OR, you go for a completely open and transparent licensing process which ALL clubs, including the self-entitled SL clubs have to participate in as well. Proper criteria on grounds, youth, finances etc etc, with the licenses fixed for five years. Then add to the 14 clubs as and when other clubs meet the same criteria. I have no issue with that model!

What you don't do is change the rules the competition half way through the season because it's convenient that Toronto and Toulouse happen to be the top 2 of the Championship, whilst at the same time protecting Leeds and Hull KR from relegation. And then pull up the drawbridge, condemning the rest of us to permanent obscurity with no central funding from the next TV deal.

Now to level headed people that makes perfect sense, but a lot of people have this preconceived idea that the present SL incumbants plus the (alledged) Canucks and Toulouse make a precise fit for our Upper Echelon of still the RFL. 

I am with you Paul earn promotion on the field of play, but if we must have a return to some form of licensing do it properly this time for all the teams wishing to gain a licence, utilising a proper set of criteria that has to be conformed with on all its implications, there is evidently a portion of those criteria in the minds of the SL Chairmen, Leneghan said "whoever the promoted club is, they will only be accepted into SL if they meet certain criteria" that being the case shouldn't presnt SL members be subject to the same principles and standards to remain there? All that needs to happen is to complete the list and issue it for scrutiny.

I have posed this question many times, but for some reason not a lot of people want to discuss it, for some reason they don't want to subject some teams to this scrutiny, why would that be? 

 

[Henson Park Old Firm]

Championship name could be changed

The name of the Championship could be set for a name change for the 2021 season.

The upcoming TV deal in 2021 could throw a spanner in the works for Super League, Championship and League One, depending on how it pans out. Super League are their own entity now, meaning the RFL’s divisions – Championship and League One – could fully breakaway. There are rumours the Championship could change its name to ‘Premier League’ or ‘Premiership’, with League One then taking on the ‘Championship’ tag. It could all get a bit confusing!

[GUBRATS]

12 minutes ago, Henson Park Old Firm said:

Championship name could be changed

The name of the Championship could be set for a name change for the 2021 season.

The upcoming TV deal in 2021 could throw a spanner in the works for Super League, Championship and League One, depending on how it pans out. Super League are their own entity now, meaning the RFL’s divisions – Championship and League One – could fully breakaway. There are rumours the Championship could change its name to ‘Premier League’ or ‘Premiership’, with League One then taking on the ‘Championship’ tag. It could all get a bit confusing!

And pointless 

[cookey]

19 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

Two rumours, two tens with annual p and r and 16 clubs. Both structures involve bonds, and a couple of clubs in SL cant afford them.

Brilliant idea,just short of suitable clubs,adequate facilities,quality players and around £10 mill/per season.

[deluded pom?]

4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It seems like some people honestly think people are going to confuse the 2nd tier for the top tier. 

If anything was going to confuse people it would be calling your second tier the Premiership. Do they understand what an (oxy)moron is?

[Marty Funkhouser]

26 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

If anything was going to confuse people it would be calling your second tier the Premiership. Do they understand what an (oxy)moron is?

"Super"League...???

[paulwalker71]

2 hours ago, Henson Park Old Firm said:

Championship name could be changed

The name of the Championship could be set for a name change for the 2021 season.

The upcoming TV deal in 2021 could throw a spanner in the works for Super League, Championship and League One, depending on how it pans out. Super League are their own entity now, meaning the RFL’s divisions – Championship and League One – could fully breakaway. There are rumours the Championship could change its name to ‘Premier League’ or ‘Premiership’, with League One then taking on the ‘Championship’ tag. It could all get a bit confusing!

'Moving the deckchairs around on the Titanic' comes to mind...

[Hemel Stag]

On 09/06/2019 at 19:17, GUBRATS said:

No , unless you beat Saints today 

That didn't age well 

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, Hemel Stag said:

That didn't age well 

You did realise I posted that 2 hours after I saw the actual result 

[paulwalker71]

3 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Is there any sport that runs itself anywhere close to that model? 

There are numerous examples of different models of licensing/franchising, and similarly examples of numerous different models of P+R, we have tried numerous models of P+R ourselves. 

But for some reason, and its common within the game, the alternative is a model of licensing/franchising which is hugely unlike anything that exists anywhere else in the world. 

I'm confused Scotchy. 

I feel that I have seen you argue against promotion and relegation many times (can't bothered finding links, but I'm sure this the case).

So if you don't agree with P&R, what is your alternative? Surely it has to be some form of licensing or franchising? Or do you want the current 12 SL clubs to just 'self appoint' themselves as the top elite division in perpetuity and sod the rest ?

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

I'm confused Scotchy. 

I feel that I have seen you argue against promotion and relegation many times (can't bothered finding links, but I'm sure this the case).

So if you don't agree with P&R, what is your alternative? Surely it has to be some form of licensing or franchising? Or do you want the current 12 SL clubs to just 'self appoint' themselves as the top elite division in perpetuity and sod the rest ?

No , what he wants is different criteria for different clubs , built around size and wealth of individual clubs along with player production , then sod the rest , who then will need to find their level and be happy with that 

[GUBRATS]

5 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Again, your attempts at paraphrasing are as accurate as your punctuation.

That isnt my position, however let's not pretend that yours is some altruistic, fair argument. 

It's P+R could be good for Leigh and sod the rest. Your issue has never been that a line is drawn, it's that the line may be drawn ahead of your club rather than behind it. 

Correct , I'd suggest that applies to every other clubs fans as well , everybody wants the sport to grow and expand , as long as their club is part of that growth and expansion