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Bradford AGAIN (Merged threads)

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6 hours ago, John Drake said:

Rose tinted glasses? You must be joking!

I've been watching this ongoing calamity unfold, not as some disconnected bystander, or a journalist, but as a Bradfordian and a season ticket holder. I've paid to watch this rubbish!!

I've heard every tinpot fantasy solution proposed on here at least a hundred times now. It gets boring listening to people claiming simple solutions exist, that can be knocked off in a forum post, when they don't.

I don't report on this story at all, so no vested interests from me. My colleagues at LPL, who are not Bradford fans, have it well covered.

One thing no journalist will ever find, not even Woodward and Bernstein, is a magic wand to conjure up some painless solution to the chaos at Bradford Bulls.

This is a forum where things are discussed, info passed on, banter given out and where, shock horror, diffrent views are exchanged. Or do you think any discussion about the Bulls shoulld be ignored?

When a Club has gone into financial trouble atleast 4 times (Caisley Era/ Green Era/ Kahn Era/ Chalmers Era) in the past 10 years, that has seen local people and businesses lose likely well over a million Pound, then maybe its for the best to close them down. How many times do we keep given various consortiums a chance to save the Bulls? Why should other Clubs face tough times or have to ask the RFL for money, due to money owed to them by the Bulls? I dont think its OK and the Bulls financial problems are having a big impact on the game as a whole, not just Bradford. The Bulls owed my Club money and made liife difficult last year,  as they could not pay some bills on time due to money owed to them from Bradford. It gets boring when nobody knows whether Bradford are able to keep going and if they will pay the debts. But lets just throw a wobbly because you dont want to face the truth, that the Bulls would be best shut down instead of each couple of years giving another consortium the chance to grow debts.

Why dont you report on this Story ever? Surely as a Bradford fan and probably better/more contacts than Journos who follow Wakefield, Halifax, Rochdale etc, you would be able to get info easier and quicker? Or is it you want to keep hoping that the Bulls will get it right one day, no matter what the cost to others?

I wouldnt want Halifax/Melbourne if it kept getting in to severe debt and have such a reputation like the Bulls have. It would hurt as hell if either was gone. But I also would not want either Club to exist, if they were like the Bulls are doing. No Club is ever bigger than the game for me.

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38 minutes ago, HKR AWAY DAYS said:

We have just signed 5 of Bradford's players for a substantial transfer fee, believed to be in the region of £100k.

The players are half-backs Joe Keyes and Rowan Milnes, back-rowers Elliot Minchella and Matthew Storton and prop-forward Anesu Mudoti, who have all signed three-year deals with Rovers from the 2020 campaign.

So some of these could pop up at Dewsbury.

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Perez is behind the Ottawa franchise that is due to start in 2021. My prediction is that the Bulls will limp along in 2020 before folding at the end of the season. The residual players could then be cherry picked by Ottawa and Dewsbury.

 


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2 hours ago, HKR AWAY DAYS said:

We have just signed 5 of Bradford's players for a substantial transfer fee, believed to be in the region of £100k.

The players are half-backs Joe Keyes and Rowan Milnes, back-rowers Elliot Minchella and Matthew Storton and prop-forward Anesu Mudoti, who have all signed three-year deals with Rovers from the 2020 campaign.

That’s one way of fulfilling your reserve team commitment 

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46 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

So some of these could pop up at Dewsbury.

There's a good chance they end up back at Bradford "on loan" considering the convoluted ownership model involved... 

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17 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

That’s one way of fulfilling your reserve team commitment 

 

Just now, dkw said:

There's a good chance they end up back at Bradford "on loan" considering the convoluted ownership model involved... 

Milnes + another (as yet un-named and probably not out of these 5) already announced on season long loan to Bradford for 2020

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8 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

 

Milnes + another (as yet un-named and probably not out of these 5) already announced on season long loan to Bradford for 2020

Ha ha, oh what a shock. So £100k moves around and the players stay at the bulls, bet Hull KR fans will be happy with that. 

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Just now, dkw said:

There's a good chance they end up back at Bradford "on loan" considering the convoluted ownership model involved... 

I wouldn't be surprised. Either way they will still end up at Dewsbury!

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26 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

I wouldn't be surprised. Either way they will still end up at Dewsbury!

Only if they are good enough.


Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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3 hours ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

This is a forum where things are discussed, info passed on, banter given out and where, shock horror, diffrent views are exchanged. Or do you think any discussion about the Bulls shoulld be ignored?

When a Club has gone into financial trouble atleast 4 times (Caisley Era/ Green Era/ Kahn Era/ Chalmers Era) in the past 10 years, that has seen local people and businesses lose likely well over a million Pound, then maybe its for the best to close them down. How many times do we keep given various consortiums a chance to save the Bulls? Why should other Clubs face tough times or have to ask the RFL for money, due to money owed to them by the Bulls? I dont think its OK and the Bulls financial problems are having a big impact on the game as a whole, not just Bradford. The Bulls owed my Club money and made liife difficult last year,  as they could not pay some bills on time due to money owed to them from Bradford. It gets boring when nobody knows whether Bradford are able to keep going and if they will pay the debts. But lets just throw a wobbly because you dont want to face the truth, that the Bulls would be best shut down instead of each couple of years giving another consortium the chance to grow debts.

Why dont you report on this Story ever? Surely as a Bradford fan and probably better/more contacts than Journos who follow Wakefield, Halifax, Rochdale etc, you would be able to get info easier and quicker? Or is it you want to keep hoping that the Bulls will get it right one day, no matter what the cost to others?

I wouldnt want Halifax/Melbourne if it kept getting in to severe debt and have such a reputation like the Bulls have. It would hurt as hell if either was gone. But I also would not want either Club to exist, if they were like the Bulls are doing. No Club is ever bigger than the game for me.

Where to start replying to this...?

At the beginning, I suppose. Here goes, for what good it will do based on previous attempts.

Point 1:  do you think any discussion about the Bulls should be ignored?

Clearly not, or this thread wouldn't exist (or any of the dozen others that have preceded it on the same subject), and I wouldn't be contributing to it.

Point 2: Your argument is a contradiction. You complain about the Bulls owing money to others, but then argue that the current club (which owes money to others) should be wound up and renege on its debts instead of carrying on (in clearly reduced circumstances given the players they've already started to offload), and paying off those debts. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Point 3: League Express has reported the Bradford saga ever since it began, and my colleague Matthew Shaw (a Halifax fan, incidentally) is the lead reporter on it. If I were reporting it, instead of Matthew, not only would it not be as good because he's a far better journalist than me, but you'd probably be accusing me of some sort of vested interest because I'm a Bradford fan myself (something I've never hidden at any stage of my almost 20 year employment at LPL). This morning, we held the editorial meeting for the next issue of Rugby League World (where I am Exec Editor) and Matthew Shaw was commissioned to write a four page investigative piece on the Bradford saga for the mag.  For the record, I have no connection with Bradford other than as a season ticket holder, which I pay for out of my own pocket, not as a press freebie.

Point 4: If you can find anywhere where I have ever claimed Bradford is bigger than the game, please copy and paste it here. I'll save you the time bothering to look, because I never have or ever would claim that. Whether the club survives or goes bust is not up to me, never has been. Nor do I have any say or influence in who owns it, or how they run it. I've already posted earlier (if you bothered to read) that I wouldn't trust anyone who runs this club now, they'll have to be judged on actions not words, and their primary responsibility as far as I'm concerned is to pay off the debt, and live within the club's self-generated means. I'm just a fan who pays his money to watch his team play at the weekend. It wouldn't matter to me what league they were playing in (when they were in League 1, I watched every single game home and away at my own expense and my respect for all the clubs in that division is immense), if a Bradford club exists, I'll watch it. If it ceases to exist, I'd be gutted, but there'd be the square root of zip all I could do about that.

If you want to make this a debate about my personal integrity, I'm telling you now, you'll lose.

If you want to make it about the integrity of those who have (repeatedly) run my hometown club into the dirt, I'd probably end up agreeing with you.

I wouldn't wish what's happened to Bradford Bulls on any other club or any other set of fans, ever. All I hope is that the new regime pay off its debts and restructure the club to live within its self-generating resources, even if that means the team ends up at the bottom of League 1.

Am I full of optimism that this will happen? Quite frankly, no. Time will tell. But there are no other options available that doesn't involve the club going into administration and reneging on its debts, and anyone who claims to care about the impact that would have on other clubs and creditors shouldn't be cheerleading for that to happen, in my view.

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Instead of making ridiculous comments on the debt situation of which 99% of you have no idea who or what is owed,why not wait until Mr. Sawyer either carries out or does not carry out his promise to pay all the creditors. He has already stated that all clubs except one that has been owing money has been paid out.The one who has not is willing to accept their debt in stage payments.The major creditor was Andrew Chalmers with a six figure debt owing to him.Once again all you posters refusing to believe this know absolutely nothing about this situation. He has also agreed to waive his debt.Again all you naysayers are saying it is not true. The rumour mongers amongst you are also posting that next years money from the R.F.L. has already been paid to the Bulls is once again incorrect, as Mr Sawyer has replied in the Q.and A. piece which was printed in the R.L.E.

Are you all saying now that he is a liar. ? Anybody with an ounce of common sense knows that the biggest burden at the Bulls for years has been Odsal. I defy any club in S.L. or any other league to be able to afford the running costs of Odsal.

That burden has now been lifted and with the common sense of Mr. Sawyer the club should now be able to steady itself and be sustainable. Has the trouble makers have already pointed out you do not believe that will ever happen. If that is the case we can all expect the demise of Dewsbury soon, personally I do not expect such a scenario as I have every confidence in Mr. Sawyer. If I am wrong I will post on this forum admitting so, something that the vast majority of you keyboard warriors would never do.John drake is perfectly correct in what he posts,he is a Bradford Bulls and Rugby League fan ,as am I,nowadays more a R.L. fan as I can not get to many games nowadays seeing as I spend the vast majority of my time at my home in Spain,but at heart I am still a Northern/Bulls fan ans always will be.I will now be awaiting with baited breath the posts from Blues Ox, Les Tonks, and the rest of the knowalls on here as well as the so called Bulls supporter Wolford. I will read the T.& A. first though to read his derogatory posts on all things going on in Bradford of which he seems to know about.

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9 minutes ago, fairfolly said:

Instead of making ridiculous comments on the debt situation of which 99% of you have no idea who or what is owed,why not wait until Mr. Sawyer either carries out or does not carry out his promise to pay all the creditors. He has already stated that all clubs except one that has been owing money has been paid out.The one who has not is willing to accept their debt in stage payments.The major creditor was Andrew Chalmers with a six figure debt owing to him.Once again all you posters refusing to believe this know absolutely nothing about this situation. He has also agreed to waive his debt.Again all you naysayers are saying it is not true. The rumour mongers amongst you are also posting that next years money from the R.F.L. has already been paid to the Bulls is once again incorrect, as Mr Sawyer has replied in the Q.and A. piece which was printed in the R.L.E.

Are you all saying now that he is a liar. ? Anybody with an ounce of common sense knows that the biggest burden at the Bulls for years has been Odsal. I defy any club in S.L. or any other league to be able to afford the running costs of Odsal.

That burden has now been lifted and with the common sense of Mr. Sawyer the club should now be able to steady itself and be sustainable. Has the trouble makers have already pointed out you do not believe that will ever happen. If that is the case we can all expect the demise of Dewsbury soon, personally I do not expect such a scenario as I have every confidence in Mr. Sawyer. If I am wrong I will post on this forum admitting so, something that the vast majority of you keyboard warriors would never do.John drake is perfectly correct in what he posts,he is a Bradford Bulls and Rugby League fan ,as am I,nowadays more a R.L. fan as I can not get to many games nowadays seeing as I spend the vast majority of my time at my home in Spain,but at heart I am still a Northern/Bulls fan ans always will be.I will now be awaiting with baited breath the posts from Blues Ox, Les Tonks, and the rest of the knowalls on here as well as the so called Bulls supporter Wolford. I will read the T.& A. first though to read his derogatory posts on all things going on in Bradford of which he seems to know about.

Has the reported £500k debt been run up over the last two years? If so, is that the price of playing at/maintaining Odsal? I ask, as I don't know. 

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10 hours ago, John Drake said:

Where to start replying to this...?

If you want to make this a debate about my personal integrity, I'm telling you now, you'll lose.

If you want to make it about the integrity of those who have (repeatedly) run my hometown club into the dirt, I'd probably end up agreeing with you.

In a nutshell, that is exactly the response the post deserved, which in itself had some very valid points about the Bulls and some less well guided views about the integrity of how it has been reported IMO. 

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Northern Eel , I would not profess to know if the £500,000 debt has been run up over the last two years as same as the "keyboard warriors" I am not on the Board of Directors at the Bulls so I am not privy to how the money has been lost. I would however hazard a guess,and it is a guess, that a vast majority of the debt has accrued because of the running costs of Odsal.But I am sure somebody will post on here that they know.Anyway off for my game of golf now. 

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15 hours ago, fairfolly said:

Wolford,

                  I would refrain from predicting anything. You are not very good at it. I also read the T & A. and have noted your comments there.

I did refrain from predicting that you would contribute nothing worth reading. Pity, I would have got that one right.

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On 16/10/2019 at 17:07, fairfolly said:

Time for me to depart again I think.

Well, fair play, you got that one right.

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2 hours ago, fairfolly said:

Instead of making ridiculous comments on the debt situation of which 99% of you have no idea who or what is owed,why not wait until Mr. Sawyer either carries out or does not carry out his promise to pay all the creditors. He has already stated that all clubs except one that has been owing money has been paid out.The one who has not is willing to accept their debt in stage payments.The major creditor was Andrew Chalmers with a six figure debt owing to him.Once again all you posters refusing to believe this know absolutely nothing about this situation. He has also agreed to waive his debt.Again all you naysayers are saying it is not true. The rumour mongers amongst you are also posting that next years money from the R.F.L. has already been paid to the Bulls is once again incorrect, as Mr Sawyer has replied in the Q.and A. piece which was printed in the R.L.E.

Are you all saying now that he is a liar. ? Anybody with an ounce of common sense knows that the biggest burden at the Bulls for years has been Odsal. I defy any club in S.L. or any other league to be able to afford the running costs of Odsal.

That burden has now been lifted and with the common sense of Mr. Sawyer the club should now be able to steady itself and be sustainable. Has the trouble makers have already pointed out you do not believe that will ever happen. If that is the case we can all expect the demise of Dewsbury soon, personally I do not expect such a scenario as I have every confidence in Mr. Sawyer. If I am wrong I will post on this forum admitting so, something that the vast majority of you keyboard warriors would never do.John drake is perfectly correct in what he posts,he is a Bradford Bulls and Rugby League fan ,as am I,nowadays more a R.L. fan as I can not get to many games nowadays seeing as I spend the vast majority of my time at my home in Spain,but at heart I am still a Northern/Bulls fan ans always will be.I will now be awaiting with baited breath the posts from Blues Ox, Les Tonks, and the rest of the knowalls on here as well as the so called Bulls supporter Wolford. I will read the T.& A. first though to read his derogatory posts on all things going on in Bradford of which he seems to know about.

Lovely.

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46 minutes ago, fairfolly said:

Northern Eel , I would not profess to know if the £500,000 debt has been run up over the last two years as same as the "keyboard warriors" I am not on the Board of Directors at the Bulls so I am not privy to how the money has been lost. I would however hazard a guess,and it is a guess, that a vast majority of the debt has accrued because of the running costs of Odsal. But I am sure somebody will post on here that they know.Anyway off for my game of golf now. 

Chalmers has stated publicly that it costs in the region of £400k to play at Bradford each season. You don't have to be on the BOD to know some of this information. 

With larger crowds than the average and greater corporate facilities than pretty much everyone else, I'd be surprised if they weren't able to turn over £150k a year more than the average Championship team. But, as you say, we are largely working on guesswork.

Some will continue defend the Bulls administration, others will believe they have seen right through it sometime ago. That's up to each and every one of them', 'keyboard warrior' or not.

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With the five going I believe we have released our 4 biggest earners of last season in Minicheddars, Keyes and I know that Chisholm and Ryan were on decent wages. With Rhys Evans resigning I think we'll do ok. I'd put money on us not going down. We have Oakes, Hallas, Crossley, Evans as defo for the moment and I believe a few more will stay.


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