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Referee bashing-get it stopped!

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It's only a few weeks into the season and yet I'm getting drained already by the ref bashing, by coaches, media, fans and just across the game, we've had Ian Watson two weeks running now insinuating that the match officials have ruined any chance of his team getting a result, Daryl Powell has become a master of it in the past, other coaches and players are guilty of it every week too, not to mention St Helens' chairman using his programme notes to attack a referee

I am not daft enough to believe that referee's don't make mistakes, and i know that during the course of the game it's part and parcel to barrack the officials, but that's where it should stop in my eyes, but it doesn't, I know @Martyn Sadler made reference to this a few weeks back, but it then leads to personal verbal attacks on public forums which is ban out of order!

We see it during every match thread on here and on other forums, countless posts about what the ref has or hasn't done etc.

Everyone involved in a game makes mistakes, players, coaches, officials, but officials are the only ones usually held accountable for theirs, of course they may make a really bad error and it may inevitably lead to an event which may change the result, but these are extremely far and few between, usually the referee has very little input into the outcome of a game, certainly players and coaches and actions usually see to that.

Perfect example from my fellow Fartowners last year, i can't remember the opposition (may have been Saints) but basically they were given a soft penalty coming out of their own half, our crowd didn't like it and got on the ref's back over it, 3 plays later and they score, that try took the game away from us, our fans then castigated the ref for days over it, despite the fact that we still had 3 sets to stop a try being scored, how can a referee be held accountable for something that happens 3 plays and 2 minutes later i ask?

Anyway, back to the matter at hand, we are so quick to blame the officials in our game that i worry about it, i know football have issues with VAR etc, but do other sports allow the lambasting of the match officials as much as RL does?

Sorry for a bit of a rant, but it's stuff like this that really winds me up!

 

 

Screenshot_20200223_072559.jpg

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9 minutes ago, meast said:

It's only a few weeks into the season and yet I'm getting drained already by the ref bashing, by coaches, media, fans and just across the game, we've had Ian Watson two weeks running now insinuating that the match officials have ruined any chance of his team getting a result, Daryl Powell has become a master of it in the past, other coaches and players are guilty of it every week too, not to mention St Helens' chairman using his programme notes to attack a referee

I am not daft enough to believe that referee's don't make mistakes, and i know that during the course of the game it's part and parcel to barrack the officials, but that's where it should stop in my eyes, but it doesn't, I know @Martyn Sadler made reference to this a few weeks back, but it then leads to personal verbal attacks on public forums which is ban out of order!

We see it during every match thread on here and on other forums, countless posts about what the ref has or hasn't done etc.

Everyone involved in a game makes mistakes, players, coaches, officials, but officials are the only ones usually held accountable for theirs, of course they may make a really bad error and it may inevitably lead to an event which may change the result, but these are extremely far and few between, usually the referee has very little input into the outcome of a game, certainly players and coaches and actions usually see to that.

Perfect example from my fellow Fartowners last year, i can't remember the opposition (may have been Saints) but basically they were given a soft penalty coming out of their own half, our crowd didn't like it and got on the ref's back over it, 3 plays later and they score, that try took the game away from us, our fans then castigated the ref for days over it, despite the fact that we still had 3 sets to stop a try being scored, how can a referee be held accountable for something that happens 3 plays and 2 minutes later i ask?

Anyway, back to the matter at hand, we are so quick to blame the officials in our game that i worry about it, i know football have issues with VAR etc, but do other sports allow the lambasting of the match officials as much as RL does?

Sorry for a bit of a rant, but it's stuff like this that really winds me up!

 

 

Screenshot_20200223_072559.jpg

Completely agree , club officials should receive heavy fines for public criticism of match officials 

No place for it 

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We all get frustrated by referees because that's the nature of fandom. 

But champion teams overcome adversity, including adverse calls, they don't allow it to totally distract them like Watson appears to indicate has happened to Salford. If a call for tackled in the air was made incorrectly (and I don't know if it was wrong) then drawing a direct line from that to a 14 point loss is a line which goes straight through his players.

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I totally understand the frustration if, for example, a clear knock on by the opposition is not given in the act of scoring a try in the last minute to win the game etc, but what's clear to someone in the stands with a clear view may not be clear to an official with other bodies in their sightlines.

But then you could also argue that by the same token, letting the opposition near your line in the last minute, that the players and coaches have also failed in their job.

But it's always the referee's fault!

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10 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Completely agree , club officials should receive heavy fines for public criticism of match officials 

No place for it 

And coaches should face match bans which include not being allowed in the stadium for the match

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21 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Completely agree , club officials should receive heavy fines for public criticism of match officials 

No place for it 

Coaches, players and fans (and club chairmen) never want to admit that their team was not good enough to win and so they look for someone to blame ... and guess who ?

The only reason those involved with a club blame the referee is to try and take any criticism off themselves (ie "Oh no Mr,Supporter, it wasn't my fault we lost the game, it was the referee to blame".) By doing so they are just being cowards because they know the referee will not be allowed to answer such criticism while the media themselves just want to have something controversial to broadcast or write about.

And that's not only a situation regarding referees. These days people also have far less respect for anybody of authority such as the police, teachers, the boss at work, etc.

Many people keep saying the game is better than it was ... well, the respect for referees is one aspect where the game is definitely worse than what is was. Of course it's now so easy for individuals to make such comments yet that shouldn't mean they should do.

The whole fault, however, lies with the RFL in not giving protection to their employees (ie the referees) by not telling the clubs that NO comments should be made by anyone about the referee's performance. If they do them the ones involved should be suspended and/or very heavily fined.

If the club want to complain about a referee then they have an official complaints procedure in order to do so ... but of course that isn't good enough for the clubs because it wouldn't get them free of criticism.

Edited by RL does what Sky says
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1 minute ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Coaches, players and fans (and club chairmen) never want to admit that their team was not good enough to win and so they look for someone to blame ... and guess who ?

The only reason those involved with a club blame the referee is to try and take any criticism off themselves (ie "Oh no Mr,Supporter, it wasn't my fault we lost the game, it was the referee to blame".) By doing so they are just being cowards because they know the referee will not be allowed to answer such criticism while the media themselves just want to have something controversial to broadcast or write about.

And that's not only a situation regarding referees. These days people also have far less respect for anybody of authority such as the police, teachers, the boss at work, etc.

Many people keep saying the game is better than it was ... well, the respect for referees is one aspect where the game is definitely worse than what is was. Of course it's now so easy for individuals to make such comments yet that shouldn't mean they should do.

The whole fault, however, lies with the RFL in not giving protection to their employees (ie the referees) by not telling the clubs that NO comments should be made by anyone about the referee's performance. If they do them the ones involved should be suspended and/or very heavily fined.

This.

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Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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13 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Coaches, players and fans (and club chairmen) never want to admit that their team was not good enough to win and so they look for someone to blame ... and guess who ?

The only reason those involved with a club blame the referee is to try and take any criticism off themselves (ie "Oh no Mr,Supporter, it wasn't my fault we lost the game, it was the referee to blame".) By doing so they are just being cowards because they know the referee will not be allowed to answer such criticism while the media themselves just want to have something controversial to broadcast or write about.

And that's not only a situation regarding referees. These days people also have far less respect for anybody of authority such as the police, teachers, the boss at work, etc.

Many people keep saying the game is better than it was ... well, the respect for referees is one aspect where the game is definitely worse than what is was. Of course it's now so easy for individuals to make such comments yet that shouldn't mean they should do.

The whole fault, however, lies with the RFL in not giving protection to their employees (ie the referees) by not telling the clubs that NO comments should be made by anyone about the referee's performance. If they do them the ones involved should be suspended and/or very heavily fined.

If the club want to complain about a referee then they have an official complaints procedure in order to do so ... but of course that isn't good enough for the clubs because it wouldn't get them free of criticism.

Spot on!

While the powers that be continue to let coaches and players have free reign to bag officials, who, seemingly, have no right to reply then things aren't going to change.

As long as the RFL allow referee's to be questioned and hung out to dry by the coaches/clubs then the fans will also feel compelled to go along with it.

 

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The sad thing is that it's now in the mindset of lots of fans, my own teams' fans included in that, whereby the fans have already decided that our team aren't going to win a particular game because of who the referee is.

How many Saints fans will now have that Psyche every time Hicks is appointed their game?

We are the same with Child, or Childs as most people refer to him, I've been critical of him in the past, but i think he's been very good lately but a lot of our fans see him as the devil and are on his back after every single decision, it's awful too see thousands of people slaughtering a guy who is just doing his job, and for the most part, doing it well.

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1 minute ago, meast said:

The sad thing is that it's now in the mindset of lots of fans, my own teams' fans included in that, whereby the fans have already decided that our team aren't going to win a particular game because of who the referee is.

How many Saints fans will now have that Psyche every time Hicks is appointed their game?

We are the same with Child, or Childs as most people refer to him, I've been critical of him in the past, but i think he's been very good lately but a lot of our fans see him as the devil and are on his back after every single decision, it's awful too see thousands of people slaughtering a guy who is just doing his job, and for the most part, doing it well.

Yes, I wonder what would happen if those supporters (or indeed coaches, players, etc) went on tv or had comments published in newspapers criticising their boss at work ?

These days it's wrong to be racist, sexist, etc ... yet nobody ever complains about people being refereeist !

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1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Does anyone think the Aussie 2 officials works?

The problem in the UK is getting the number of officials available to do it.  If that was introduced over here now then it would impact on the amateur game where there wouldn't then be enough to cover the games.

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Ultimately we have to accept refs are human and will make mistakes , and indeed I truly believe a certain Mr Hicks had an absolute ' mare ' quite probably influenced by the fact that Leigh were a newly promoted team for the 1 st game of the 2017 season , but did it affect the result ? , Probably not , whatever poor decisions he made were without doubt subconscious , which is a human trait , and therefore something we have to accept 

Until we have AI refs then we have to accept what we have and just get on with it 

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Reffing is both an art and a science. Errors happen. If people can’t handle that then perhaps rugby league isn’t for them.

Edited by Copa
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55 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Does anyone think the Aussie 2 officials works?

Not really, it'll just double the moaning from some.

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I have broadcasted on twitter and am following up too that if I critise referees or swear at all in general I will donate to the oppositions charity foundation or similar and as part of this have asked people to point out any occasions. Be good if others join in too. 

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There’s no place for foul , abusive , personally offensive language , but you’ll never ever ever stop criticism , negativity and comment of officials in our game or any other from fans . All authorities can do is police who they have or should have some power  over ... players , coaches , officials .

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Another problem in criticising the referees at professional level is that it then also penetrates down into the amateur game (including junior level) and has caused acts of violence against referees who are not as protected against angry supporters as they are at professional level.

There used to be a Greater Manchester Youth League in which a rule was that if anyone on the touchline (including parents of the kids playing) shouted anything of detriment against the referee (or even against a player) then the game was immediately stopped and a penalty given to the opposition of the person who shouted. OK, that was at junior level and would not be possible at professional games but it solved the problem.

If people moan about the standard of refereeing then there's one answer .... show us yourself how it should be done !

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Coaches have always blamed ref's. There was a printed example from the 60's on here a while back where both coaches blamed the ref for a brawl that resulted in players being sent off.

And fans have always got on the back of referees from the terraces.

The difference now is that in the past the coaches comments would be lost post game bar a local paper and the fans voices will be lost until they stood on the terraces the next week.

Now we have 24 hour news on tv recycling the same talking points over amd over and social media giving a platform to fans 24/7 away from the matches.

Social media doesn't make good people bad but it does expose people's nature and unfortunately there are a lot of knobs around.

Edited by Dunbar
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The comment from Ian Watson on the BBC Sport RL website is ... 

"I felt the game was ruined. As soon as the crowd went berserk at the referee, he just washed his hands of Salford and refereed the game in a totally different manner."

In other words Watson is saying "The referee was biased against Salford".

That should be investigated by the RFL and suitable punishment dished out because if it isn't then Watson will do the same again.

However, even if Watson is also proven wrong then his comments in the media will have already created hatred against the referee by the fans.

Innocent until proven guilty ? .... Well, Watson has already given his guilty verdict on the referee without waiting for a trial !

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Ref bashing is nothing new, it's just more available to broadcast through social media etc.

The powers that be should certainly try to enforce stopping it within their scope of authority (coaches, players etc.) but online message boards like this one are just the new way of vocalising your frustrations.   What used to be said in the pub is now said on the internet.   That's not going to stop, and providing there's nothing inflammatory on there I can't see why you'd waste resources trying to police it as a site admin.   It's just terrace talk for the latte-drinking generation (he says as he sips from his soy-milk nespresso masterpiece just created).

I've been as guilty as the next man when it seems my team is getting the raw deal, but I know in reality that mistakes happen because we are human.   To make it worse we are subjective humans and that means we don't get the consistency we hope for with different referees.   As said previously until we get an AI referee then it's not going to change (and even then an AI referee would be flawed to the extent of it's code programmer 😊).

What I would actually like to see is a weekly review published by the referees controller explaining some decisions and their interpretations and which areas they would like referees to focus on so we have a generalised guide to how to interpret things.   I know this should be going on behind closed doors already but it doesn't really seem to be from the evidence on the field.   The other thing I'd like to see is a level playing field with the video ref - if we can't have it at all games, don't have it at all.

Edited by Cheshire Setter

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It's not helped when official, or quasi-official, club accounts join in the bashing.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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I think the problem goes back to when refs stopped being truly neutral. Top referees from Wigan and St Helens moaning about not being allowed to referee cup finals got the rules changed. 

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/ganson-blows-whistle-on-postcode-lottery-1-2467361

I'm not going to accuse referees of being partial, but the lack of neutrality certainly plays into the hands of noisy conspiracy theorists. 

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2 hours ago, HarrogateKnights said:

I have broadcasted on twitter and am following up too that if I critise referees or swear at all in general I will donate to the oppositions charity foundation or similar and as part of this have asked people to point out any occasions. Be good if others join in too. 

Did you do some swearing at Leigh then?

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40 minutes ago, Dave W said:

I think the problem goes back to when refs stopped being truly neutral. Top referees from Wigan and St Helens moaning about not being allowed to referee cup finals got the rules changed. 

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/ganson-blows-whistle-on-postcode-lottery-1-2467361

I'm not going to accuse referees of being partial, but the lack of neutrality certainly plays into the hands of noisy conspiracy theorists. 

The only question that should be asked is who, if any, the match official supports or would class as their number one team.

I was a member of Dewsbury & Batley Referees Society but don’t support either as my number one team so I should have been able to (and was) officiate at their games.

Ganson was & still is, as far as I know, a Saints fan so should never have got anywhere near a Saints game not that I am saying he would have been biased but why even open up that argument 

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