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Hela Wigmen

How do you revitalise the Challenge Cup?

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Funnily enough the wife is just watching the highlights of Wakey v Leigh from 2015 when we came back from 22 points behind to take the match , the magic of the cup , big following from Leigh that day , came so close to putting out Wire in the next round 

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11 hours ago, wiganermike said:

Had the season been able to progress as originally intended then this season we would have had a final taking place away from the August Bank Holiday (and also further away from the playoffs and GF) for the first time in 16 years. We would also have had rounds occurring at much more regular intervals than we have seen in recent years (no more stupid two month gap during which people could forget the cup was happening) with the largest interval coming between the semi finals and final. We won't know until next year what effect those two changes to the cup timetable will have. Hopefully those two changes intended for this year will give the competition a boost.

completely agree.. there have been changes made that have been asked for by many for a while.. keep the rounds close together and get the final earlier. Until we know whether that works or not why tinker anymore with it.. these may be the things that solve the "problem".

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8 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

This could be Mr Elstone's first project if he keeps his job in the potential new RL structure.

Why? Its not a Super League competition?

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If you were a neutral supporter where would you spend roughly £100 for an event. 

1 - Challenge Cup Final

2 - Magic Weekend

I'd pick no.2, i'd get so much more value for money. It feels like a bigger event, than the challenge cup. 

Since the introduction of magic weekend has that been inline with the drop in crowd of the challenge cup? 

Rugby League supporters I would imagine couldn't afford to do both?


2008 RFL Wakefield & District Young Volunteer of the Year

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36 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Why? Its not a Super League competition?

If they are all under one banner and he keeps his job he wouldn't just be working for SL, so a nice project for him.

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1 minute ago, Gooleboy said:

If they are all under one banner and he keeps his job he wouldn't just be working for SL, so a nice project for him.

Nah I think he works essentially in the same way now just with the RFL above.

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Simple, 12 SL clubs join when the rest are down to last 4 to make 4 groups of 4.

Round robin groups, with at least 1 SL standard game per group per round to televise. 

Members both home and away get £5 tickets for adults, £2.50 concessions to group stage games. 

Top 2 of each group qualify for quarters. Play on.

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Invest in it. Theres no miracle cure. Changing the format etc wont solve the ills.

Edited by EastLondonMike
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15 hours ago, Mister Ting said:

 

Since 2018 the attendance at CC Finals does not include the Club Wembley seats.

However, whilst the attendance at the 2017 Final, Wigan v Hull, is given as 68,528 Brent Council after a FOI request gave a figure of 54,324 and in 2019 Warrington and Saints attracted just 62717.  

So how the hell do we get a full house if those four teams fall 30-40,000 short of filling the stadium?

People on here say ‘The RFL should promote the Final better’ but what is the financial cost to The RFL to attract these people and have them pay the actual cost of a ticket and not give tickets away for a tenner.

I do not buy into the argument that taking the game away from Wembley will devalue our sport.  We live in an age where perception matters.  A half or three quarter filled Wembley gives an awful impression but a vibrant capacity stadium elsewhere can transform perception of floating viewers and attract newcomers from those areas to the game.

..... stops typing until the gnashing of teeth of some posters on here stops .....

Have a guess of the average attendance for the NFL Super Bowl over the last 6 years ..... it is 68,715.

So why is it so wrong to adopt the same model and take the games to stadiums that have capacities between 55k (Etihad Stadium) to 74k (Principality Stadium).  The 3 years we were at the Principality Stadium were virtually sell outs.

If the RFL put the Final out to tender then a capacity crowd of 55,000 where supporters pay a price commensurate with a showpiece event will bring in roughly the same amount of a 75,000 crowd at Wembley where 20,000 tickets are virtually given away.

The days of 90,000 crowds at Wembley are about as fanciful of me winning the Grand National ..... as a horse!

 

 

Edited by Adelaide Tiger
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45 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

I do not buy into the argument that taking the game away from Wembley will devalue our sport.  We live in an age where perception matters.  A half or three quarter filled Wembley gives an awful impression but a vibrant capacity stadium elsewhere can transform perception of floating viewers and attract newcomers from those areas to the game.

I completely agree.

By doing as you suggest and moving the final around, it gives you more flexibility to choose an appropriate venue for that particular year.

For example, if it's not a home Ashes year, you might sometimes want to take the CC Final to London (Spurs, Emirates, West Ham, maybe even Wembley) - since there wouldn't be a big international match in London that year.

Whereas in a year where you've got the Aussies/Kiwis coming over and you want to use Wembley or another big London stadium for a test match (and you want the northern heartlands support to come to London to provide the foundation for a big crowd), you can play the CC final that year in e.g. Cardiff, Newcastle, Liverpool - so that people aren't having to pay out for repeated trips to the same place.

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15 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

I completely agree.

By doing as you suggest and moving the final around, it gives you more flexibility to choose an appropriate venue for that particular year.

For example, if it's not a home Ashes year, you might sometimes want to take the CC Final to London (Spurs, Emirates, West Ham, maybe even Wembley) - since there wouldn't be a big international match in London that year.

Whereas in a year where you've got the Aussies/Kiwis coming over and you want to use Wembley or another big London stadium for a test match (and you want the northern heartlands support to come to London to provide the foundation for a big crowd), you can play the CC final that year in e.g. Cardiff, Newcastle, Liverpool - so that people aren't having to pay out for repeated trips to the same place.

I like this idea a lot. The Wembley mystique is gone now, isn't coming back, and it isn't even the best stadium in London anymore, so let's not be wedded to it. If anything the problems with filling Wembley do more harm to the Challenge Cup's image than any image boost from playing there. A trip to an industrial estate in northwest London just doesn't cut it the modern era and it doesn't attract southern fans in the way internationals do. Play it on a rotation in places that people might actually want to go like Cardiff, Newcastle, Edinburgh and, as you say, once every few years even London. 

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19 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

1990-99 - 9 different finalists.

2000-09 - 9 different finalists.  

2010-19 - 8 different finalists. 

 

There are other ways you can look at that, though:

  • 8 or 9 different finalists in each 10 year period, but 20 spots available.
  • It's not cumulative.  I make it 13 finalists over 30 years (i.e. 13 of 60 spots available) BUT, of those, five have only appeared once: Hull KR, Huddersfield, Sheffield, London and Widnes.  So 8 teams have filled 55 of the 60 available final spots.

 

 

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I'd like the venue to move about.  London's horrendously expensive if you want to stay over for the match and I like the variety.  Reducing the round robin SL fixtures would boost the appeal a lot I think.

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3 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Simple, 12 SL clubs join when the rest are down to last 4 to make 4 groups of 4.

Round robin groups, with at least 1 SL standard game per group per round to televise. 

Members both home and away get £5 tickets for adults, £2.50 concessions to group stage games. 

Top 2 of each group qualify for quarters. Play on.

Regular rounds need to be included in season tickets to draw crowds. I would include Super League and Championship clubs in 4 groups of 5 (2 home and 2 away games) winners of each group straight into the semi final.

Or 12 Super league clubs join 4 championship clubs to make the last 16 which is played as magic weekend. The early rounds could be played pre season so fixtures are known well ahead of the event.

You could even have a mini magic weekend for the quarter final and then the double header for the semi final. 3 events cities could bid to host in a tender format (4 if the final moves around)

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2 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Since 2018 the attendance at CC Finals does not include the Club Wembley seats.

However, whilst the attendance at the 2017 Final, Wigan v Hull, is given as 68,528 Brent Council after a FOI request gave a figure of 54,324 and in 2019 Warrington and Saints attracted just 62717.  

So how the hell do we get a full house if those four teams fall 30-40,000 short of filling the stadium?

People on here say ‘The RFL should promote the Final better’ but what is the financial cost to The RFL to attract these people and have them pay the actual cost of a ticket and not give tickets away for a tenner.

I do not buy into the argument that taking the game away from Wembley will devalue our sport.  We live in an age where perception matters.  A half or three quarter filled Wembley gives an awful impression but a vibrant capacity stadium elsewhere can transform perception of floating viewers and attract newcomers from those areas to the game.

..... stops typing until the gnashing of teeth of some posters on here stops .....

Have a guess of the average attendance for the NFL Super Bowl over the last 6 years ..... it is 68,715.

So why is it so wrong to adopt the same model and take the games to stadiums that have capacities between 55k (Etihad Stadium) to 74k (Principality Stadium).  The 3 years we were at the Principality Stadium were virtually sell outs.

If the RFL put the Final out to tender then a capacity crowd of 55,000 where supporters pay a price commensurate with a showpiece event will bring in roughly the same amount of a 75,000 crowd at Wembley where 20,000 tickets are virtually given away.

The days of 90,000 crowds at Wembley are about as fanciful of me winning the Grand National ..... as a horse!

 

 

No often we agree , pretty much as I posted yesterday 

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58 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Regular rounds need to be included in season tickets to draw crowds. I would include Super League and Championship clubs in 4 groups of 5 (2 home and 2 away games) winners of each group straight into the semi final.

Or 12 Super league clubs join 4 championship clubs to make the last 16 which is played as magic weekend. The early rounds could be played pre season so fixtures are known well ahead of the event.

You could even have a mini magic weekend for the quarter final and then the double header for the semi final. 3 events cities could bid to host in a tender format (4 if the final moves around)

Any group games removes any chance of a lower tier club making the last 8 

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47 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Any group games removes any chance of a lower tier club making the last 8 

No it doesn’t. If they are good enough, they can do it and they will deserve it. 

Perhaps the metric of success would be that a lower grade club makes the group stages at all. Anything extra is a bonus. Much like about 33% of the nations that qualify for FIFA World Cups would see it.

Edited by Sports Prophet
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Might it be better to allow teams to enter the Challenge Cup at a later stage depending on their progress in it the previous season Challenge Cup rather than their league status at the time ?  After all, it is a seperate tournament and nothing to do with Super League.

As an example, let the previous season's four semi-finalists enter in Round 6; the four losing 1/4 finalists enter in round 5 and the eight losing round 5 teams of last year enter in round 4.

So if that has applied for 2020 it would have resulted in the entrants being as follows ...

Round 6    Halifax, Hull, St.Helens, Warrington.

Round 5    Bradford, Catalan, Hull KR, Wakefield

Round 4    Castleford, Dewsbury, Doncaster, Huddersfield, Leeds, Salford, Widnes, Wigan

That might give the lower clubs a better chance of progressing and rewards those that do with a more favourable opportunity the following year.

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7 hours ago, Chris Taylor said:

If you were a neutral supporter where would you spend roughly £100 for an event. 

1 - Challenge Cup Final

2 - Magic Weekend

I'd pick no.2, i'd get so much more value for money. It feels like a bigger event, than the challenge cup. 

Since the introduction of magic weekend has that been inline with the drop in crowd of the challenge cup? 

Rugby League supporters I would imagine couldn't afford to do both?

Maybe but if I was taking my 2 boys (13 and 15 and both neutrals) the Challenge Cup Final would be the better alternative.  Magic is too much League for most and their complaining would be annoying.  Big event, one off game for a shiny prize would be perfect.

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9 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

No often we agree , pretty much as I posted yesterday 

I was actually agreeing with your post but when I was half way through my Opus Magnum I realised I was responding to a quote from someone else.

As I didn’t want to start all over again I just deleted Mister Tings comment.

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With the introduction of the elitist SL it cant be done same with association football with the EPL their FA cup competition has become less important.  I'm not knocking SL or EPL concept ,but that's the way it is 


 Soon we will be dancing the fandango
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

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1 hour ago, WakefieldCityLoyal said:

Have the final in May 3OClock kick off on grandstand and make sure that the teams journey from their hotel to Wembley is televised life.

Grandstand ? I thought that ended many years ago . know what you mean though , in those days it meant towns like Featherstone , leigh etc had their spot in the sun . All gone now 


 Soon we will be dancing the fandango
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

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Scrap Magic Weekend

Stick to a May final 

  Bring the Superleague teams in earlier & play tied on consecutive weeks up until the semi finals 

Ban anyone who suggests playing 9s as a solution from attending any fixture 

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