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Super League Promotion (Merged Threads)


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Just now, Hello said:

Unlike Leigh and their small crowds, Toronto's crowds were growing year on year and they had around 10,000 for the million pound game.  Safe to assume then that they would average over 10,000 in Super league if the stadium allowed. So no, you don't need to be drunk to think that.

It's not safe to assume any such thing. Having "around 10,000" for one game isn't remotely the same - especially given how they actually played once they got into Super League.

Toronto could have been a big club. It was exciting for the game that they existed. They were hamstrung by the authorities here in many ways. But please don't make stuff up.

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21 minutes ago, RobertAM said:

elstones master plan to grow the game taking shape now. Rest of the world buying ordnance survey maps to plot the global footprint of RL

So lets get this right. Under Elstones master plan to grow the game and bring in extra money into the game he sacrifices a team that could have given the game a foothold in the most lucrative sports market in the world for a team in that's a suburb of Wigan. That is some master plan Elstone. Don't forget your coat on the way out and shut the door

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1 hour ago, POR said:

 

It makes me laugh all this nonsense about touiouse covid  travel restrictions and SL remind me is the championship a covid free zone  

No, but it is easier and less of a problem to run the Championship one club short or even be cancelled altogether than it is do that with SL. If Toulouse were forced to pull out of the Championship nobody outside of the game would even notice, where as if they had to withdraw from SL then we would be back to square one.

I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally

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4 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

So lets get this right. Under Elstones master plan to grow the game and bring in extra money into the game he sacrifices a team that could have given the game a foothold in the most lucrative sports market in the world for a team in that's a suburb of Wigan. That is some master plan Elstone. Don't forget your coat on the way out and shut the door

How are Toronto doing by the way?

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3 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

So lets get this right. Under Elstones master plan to grow the game and bring in extra money into the game he sacrifices a team that could have given the game a foothold in the most lucrative sports market in the world for a team in that's a suburb of Wigan. That is some master plan Elstone. Don't forget your coat on the way out and shut the door

We could have learnt from the past and done our due diligence as a sport and framing of the future instead of prematurely going weak at the knees for any slightly exotic or distant name where someone has put a pin in a map. Unfortunately, we never did and we’re where we are now. 

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7 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

So lets get this right. Under Elstones master plan to grow the game and bring in extra money into the game he sacrifices a team that could have given the game a foothold in the most lucrative sports market in the world for a team in that's a suburb of Wigan. That is some master plan Elstone. Don't forget your coat on the way out and shut the door

Canada is not the USA. Playing in Toronto does not get you a foothold into the most lucrative sports market in the world.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Yes. You've just confirmed my point. There's a reason rugby league isn't seen as a truly national sport by some and that's because it's not.

Most NRL teams are in Sydney.  Premiership RU teams are weighted around the M5.

If you and people who want to 'Like' you have the investment then go out and transplant the team of your dreams in the town of your choice.  

Start to face facts.  The reason we had this conversation is because TWP went belly up. It was pot luck who goes up.  And assuming Leigh don't go bankrupt they will struggle to stay up, as would any other.

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12 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It's not safe to assume any such thing. Having "around 10,000" for one game isn't remotely the same - especially given how they actually played once they got into Super League.

Toronto could have been a big club. It was exciting for the game that they existed. They were hamstrung by the authorities here in many ways. But please don't make stuff up.

Making stuff up, come on. They had several games over 8000 in the championship, some over 9000, and crowds had grown with each season. It's hardly making stuff up to extrapolate and conclude that over 10,000 would be a conservative target for crowds in super league, particularly when you consider the greater number of away fans in comparison to the championship

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1 minute ago, The Future is League said:

It's North American which is the most lucrative sports market in the world

You might as well say we've got a foothold in Germany because we're playing in Hull.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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3 minutes ago, Hello said:

Making stuff up, come on. They had several games over 8000 in the championship, some over 9000, and crowds had grown with each season. It's hardly making stuff up to extrapolate and conclude that over 10,000 would be a conservative target for crowds in super league, particularly when you consider the greater number of away fans in comparison to the championship

It's a wishful projection for an average. Toronto were well supported, genuinely. But until they actually had a season with a 10,000 average you can't say that we've lost a club that had a 10,000 season average.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Just now, gingerjon said:

Canada is not the USA. Playing in Toronto does not get you a foothold into the most lucrative sports market in the world.

The big Toronto clubs play in cross border leagues, it is respect as a sports city in the US and is the 3rd largest city in Canada and the US. So I would say it is part of one of the must lucrative sports market SL in the world. 

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5 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Most NRL teams are in Sydney.  Premiership RU teams are weighted around the M5.

If you and people who want to 'Like' you have the investment then go out and transplant the team of your dreams in the town of your choice.  

Start to face facts.  The reason we had this conversation is because TWP went belly up. It was pot luck who goes up.  And assuming Leigh don't go bankrupt they will struggle to stay up, as would any other.

Yes. We agree again. Rugby league in Australia struggles to call itself a national sport because it isn't properly a national sport.

This is the map for Premiership RU. It's more in line with what a national sport looks like.

image.png.42b98fc8eb982394775b244adcdf3ca9.png

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

Wetting myself at this.  London new ground?  Nope.  Toulouse to grow game and build a European SL?  Nope.

Screw it. Fair play Leigh.  Hope we get serious about expanding SL to 14 and hope Leigh stay up. 

The new President of the French league, Marc Palanques, is hoping to expand the sport further, with better media coverage, hopefully bringing in national sponsors. So, maybe, a TV deal is in the offing for French RL which will be a step in the right direction and if TO do manage it next season, the crowds should be suitably larger (Home ones anyway, as the away matches will be even more sparsely populated once the "must have a passport to travel to the UK" rule comes into force.) 

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2 minutes ago, Michael1812 said:

The big Toronto clubs play in cross border leagues, it is respect as a sports city in the US and is the 3rd largest city in Canada and the US. So I would say it is part of one of the must lucrative sports market SL in the world. 

I'd say the difference - and I do see where you're coming from - is that those Toronto clubs are playing in established essentially US leagues (NHL slightly different but still) with Toronto as a Canadian add-on.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Insular? Yes.

Disappointing? Yes (not a reflection on Leigh, they are a solid, well run club that no doubt score well in all categories).

Sensible? Most probably.

Exciting? Not in the slightest.

Opportunity for growth missed? Without a doubt.

Risk levels? Low.

In a nutshell, I can totally understand this choice. Although I cant shake off that genuine feeling of disappointment. That feeling of losing ground. Losing momentum.

Wouldn't it be lovely to have a strategic vision for the game that is more than a list of numbers in a hidden pdf. Something we can all unite around. For far too long we have been sat in two camps of extreme debate that is further fueled by the lack of clear direction/leadership on this.

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Just now, tiffers said:

Risk levels? Low.

I do enjoy a good underplaying of things.

There are times, not too often but this is one, when I miss the days of TGG & Open Rugby I'd loved to have seen what articles they'd have brought out about this and a few other things. This is not a longing for the past just a wish for the ressurrection of things like clear ideas of where you belong and why. I miss them and I miss the idea of expansion.

Leigh are a good choice because of their stadium & squad strength, if for no other reasons.

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1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

Sense of perspective needed.

Leigh may be a boring Bill Arthur of a choice but they will fulfil their fixtures, they have no ground/travel issues and they will be fairly competitive. That’s what is needed right now. Filler. 

I think this is what a lot of people don't seem to understand. This process wasn't about a long term strategy for SL, it was about being 3 months away from a new season and needing to promote a club that could cope with the step up financially, especially when they are only getting half the funding of other clubs. Nothing more than that. Which is why Leigh were the obvious choice, they have an owner who is prepared to put the extra £1m in to ensure they are at least competitive. What would be the point of throwing any of the others in on half the funding of the other clubs, they'd be absolute cannon fodder.

I suspect if this had been a process of awarding a longer term licence with relegation exemption etc then the choice would have been different. But under the circumstances anyone who argues it shouldn't be Leigh this time is not living in the real world.

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I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally

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1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Probably because their opposition was for the most part dying pit villages. The image of this game is dire to nonexistent 

Me thinks you would be better of at Twickers and Headingly Union (do they still operate) seems this game is getting below your station, you once said I should go and watch the NCL, I will still do so when the season starts up.

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