England RL x Oxen - 5 year deal

[Chrispmartha]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

It seems logical, but that's probably why it won't happen

I suppose with Leeds I'm comparing with a decade of ISC, who whilst being a relatively unknown brand I was happy with because of the genuine quality of most of their stuff. And I don't know what the situation is with Sheffield but for the Rhinos they seem to be pumping out something new every week.

The stuff they are peddling at leeds is a mess IMO, as you say it seems like a new range comes out every week and every week getting worse in design.

I actually quite liked the home shirt when it came out (the away shirt is terrible) but the more I see it the more i start to dislike it.

 

I hope they (Oxen) can do a decent job for England and up the quality, and please please don’t just whack a st George’s cross all over it.

[Dr Tim Whatley]

12 minutes ago, Scubby said:

They should insist on having a percentage of space in every club shop in the game. 

One quarter of a trestle table at Broncos games.

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, Dr Tim Whatley said:

One quarter of a trestle table at Broncos games.

If you dont ask you dont get... 

hang on, i think i may have found the flaw in the whole game strategy for the last 20 years... 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 hour ago, Whippet13 said:

I bought it and returned straight away, truly awful fit and especially terrible round the neck.

Yep, it has a weird fit around the neck.... Massive - I wore a white tshirt underneath 

[Mr Plow]

The stuff they’ve made for Hull KR looks good but I’ve heard the quality is poor. Not too keen on the Leeds stuff they’ve made. I’d expect to see them making kits for lower league clubs not Leeds or England

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Yep, it has a weird fit around the neck.... Massive - I wore a white tshirt underneath 

I think I've got lucky and only got 2 England shirts that are good fits etc, the ISC 2011 "Paint Stripe" and the BLK 2015 Baskerville Shield Series shirt that was white with a nice red trim/detailing. Both fit fantastically and still look good.

Not a fan of any shirt Hummel have made for England (though from the Wakey and Hull kits this year they might be getting it), particularly the necks. Though the other stuff has been good - I got myself a GB jacket.

Hope Oxen don't go with a St George's cross on the shirt.

[Tommygilf]

50 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

The stuff they are peddling at leeds is a mess IMO, as you say it seems like a new range comes out every week and every week getting worse in design.

I actually quite liked the home shirt when it came out (the away shirt is terrible) but the more I see it the more i start to dislike it.

 

I hope they (Oxen) can do a decent job for England and up the quality, and please please don’t just whack a st George’s cross all over it.

At last count we've got 4 shirts for this season before a ball has been kicked: Home, Away, Save the Rhino and Rob Burrow, 2 "drops" of training gear too. None of which I have found particularly appealing. I have got some navy shorts though that I'm sure are Oxen but aren't branded as such.

I don't know if you see it too but there always seems to be an offer or a deal on - to the extent that if I were to browse the rhinos shop and pay full price for something I'd feel I was being mugged! Is that because of the pandemic or is that Elite Pro Sports' normal modus operandi? 

I actually think for the likes of Wales, Ireland and Scotland etc, Oxen would be an ideal partner able to inject some professionalism into those outfits. But as I said earlier in the thread with Leeds and now England it feels like far more of a coup for Oxen than for those teams - which for arguably 2 of the sports top 5 premium brands isn't a great sign.

[Mr Plow]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I actually think for the likes of Wales, Ireland and Scotland etc, Oxen would be an ideal partner able to inject some professionalism into those outfits. But as I said earlier in the thread with Leeds and now England it feels like far more of a coup for Oxen than for those teams - which for arguably 2 of the sports top 5 premium brands isn't a great sign.

Who are the big kit manufacturers in RL now? ISC dominated both hemispheres for so long. Seems Hummel, O’Neils and Oxen are the main ones in SL atm

[Tommygilf]

Going into what is being billed as the biggest World Cup ever you'd hope that England Rugby League could get a kit supplier from outside the RL circles and possibly a big brand too. I mean if there was ever going to be a time to say we want to push this brand, it is now.

[EastLondonMike]

On 15/03/2021 at 15:12, hunsletgreenandgold said:

See here's where I think RL in this country is in real trouble - we always just seem to go for who'll give us the longest deal rather than the best. I'm not even getting into what I think of Oxen as a brand - I did all that when they were announced for the Rhinos. 

Castore are a sportswear manufacturer some of you may have heard of but i'm sure most of you maybe haven't - they've only been about for around 5 years. They're based out of Liverpool (strong northern ties ) and are going at great pace to get their brand known, not only in the UK but worldwide and across various sports. Some of their current portfolio includes: 

- Andy Murray 

- McLaren F1 

- West Indies Cricket 

- Various football teams including Rangers and Wolves and Newcastle from next year 

This is exactly the kind of brand we'd normally say 'they won't look at RL' and I'd agree, was it not for the fact they already also now produce kits for arguably the 2 most recognisable NRL teams - Sydney Rooster and Melbourne Storm. I can not for the life of me believe they wouldn't have been happy to sit down and talk with the RFL to widen their exposure in RL circles in this country? Alas, we 'make do with what we're given' as is always depressingly the case. 

Castore as a brand are making some inroads into a number of sports, as you mentioned, and although having a simple aesthetic, they do produce premium product. They are a premium sports brand, as is reflected in the quality of their product. Two reasons why we will not see Castore or any equivalent brand near RL in the UK in the short term future.

1. RL Clubs will not play a premium for their merchandise, even teamwear, as has been exampled in the trend of partnering with smaller sports brands. It's all about whats at the bottom of the balance sheet for RL clubs currently (has it ever been any different?). "Did we make a profit?" should be the adopted catchphrase.

2. Most RL fans wont pay a premium for a replica jersey. Can you imagine if your £50 jersey was now £65-£70? quality or not, can you imagine the response?

Partnering with major sports brands is only beneficial to us as a sport, to some degree. Sadly, partnering with RL in the UK is not beneficial to them, not currently.

(Though the West Indies cricket team is an interesting one. I wouldn't have thought they would generate much in terms of sales or real interest. Maybe they do.)

[Tommygilf]

18 minutes ago, Mr Plow said:

Who are the big kit manufacturers in RL now? ISC dominated both hemispheres for so long. Seems Hummel, O’Neils and Oxen are the main ones in SL atm

Yeah I mean there's Kappa (through a subsidiary) who supply Salford and a fair few lower division clubs - and the world cup tournament come to think of it. Their off field stuff is actually quite good looking if a little basic.

O'Neills seem to have stepped up their presence in a big way, especially in the amateur levels. In Saints, Warrington and Catalans they appear to have a selection of the biggest teams on board too. Hummel may finally be coming good.

I might if I have time go through the league and tot up who is with who

Looking outside of European RL, as has been mentioned already Castore are with the Storm and Roosters, though having been to their Rangers shop (I was forced to go) it seemed a bit threadbare for content? Whoever Souths are with should be avoided like the plague, it is genuinely worse than the sunday league football level shirts Wakey used to turn out in. It seems the demise of ISC has hurt the quality of kit for a lot of teams.

In RU, Cantebury, Adidas, and now Umbro are supplying clubs who aren't nearly as big as the Rhinos. There's also Macron, who aren't nearly as rogue as when Leeds United started with them more than a decade ago and they did supply Wakey at one point. Fwiw the one RU club with Oxen, Gloucester, have loads of complaints about the kit, particularly that it isn't cherry and white in a similar way to the complaints about the Rhinos home shirt.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

9 minutes ago, EastLondonMike said:

Castore as a brand are making some inroads into a number of sports, as you mentioned, and although having a simple aesthetic, they do produce premium product. They are a premium sports brand, as is reflected in the quality of their product. Two reasons why we will not see Castore or any equivalent brand near RL.

Though the West Indies cricket team is an interesting one. I wouldn't have thought they would generate much in terms of sales or real interest. Maybe they do.

1. RL Clubs will not play a premium for their merchandise, even teamwear, as has been exampled in the trend of partnering with smaller sports brands. It's all about whats at the bottom of the balance sheet for RL clubs currently (has it ever been any different?). "Did we make a profit?" should be the adopted catchphrase.

2. Most RL fans wont pay a premium for a replica jersey. Can you imagine if your £50 jersey was now £65-£70? quality or not, can you imagine the response?

Partnering with major sports brands is only beneficial to us as a sport, to some degree. Sadly, partnering with RL in the UK is not beneficial to them, not currently.

I don't disagree with any of that Mike and I know from other threads of similar discussions you're very knowledgeable on all things related to this topic (forgive me if I've missed you saying you're actually in this industry in some capacity), my gripe is more that that is where we're positioned as a sport. As I said to @Dave TI just find it all quite depressing that it's the same old with RL and nothing to break that mould ever looks likely to happen.

I hesitate before writing this but I know i'm not the only one who treads these boards who doesn't hate, shall we say, the 'other side' and I happily pay the £80+ every 4 years when a new Lions jersey comes out - absolutely nothing about this inspires me to get this England jersey and/or any of the other teamwear they'll no doubt churn out en masse but with little quality. As with all things that could and should help RL, if you get international side right it can only be at the benefit of the club game. Sadly, we're nowhere near bold enough for that to be true. 

[EastLondonMike]

7 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I don't disagree with any of that Mike and I know from other threads of similar discussions you're very knowledgeable on all things related to this topic (forgive me if I've missed you saying you're actually in this industry in some capacity), my gripe is more that that is where we're positioned as a sport. As I said to @Dave TI just find it all quite depressing that it's the same old with RL and nothing to break that mould ever looks likely to happen.

I hesitate before writing this but I know i'm not the only one who treads these boards who doesn't hate, shall we say, the 'other side' and I happily pay the £80+ every 4 years when a new Lions jersey comes out - absolutely nothing about this inspires me to get this England jersey and/or any of the other teamwear they'll no doubt churn out en masse but with little quality. As with all things that could and should help RL, if you get international side right it can only be at the benefit of the club game. Sadly, we're nowhere near bold enough for that to be true. 

You are quite right mate. I'm the same in that i'd only buy what i consider to be a certain standard of product. RU succeeds where we don't as they (like it or not) do have broader appeal than we do. And as such can attract those bigger sports brands. And as they sell a lot more merchandise than we do in RL they can afford to spend more on it and expect a return.

Oxen have had a bit of a bad rap when it comes to 'quality', though most of what i've heard has been to do with fits. And not so much the quality of the product, though that might just be my recollection from these boards.

One thing i will say, from experience, is that quality of product is as much about what a team/club/whatever is prepared to pay for. And not always about the supplier. With the exception of the likes pf Puma, Nike, Adi and even Castore, who are brands who are all design led, most smaller sports brands will be sales led. And as such will do what is needed to please the customer and meet their needs. Even if it means taking a hit on quality.

If "Team X" approach "Sports brand A" about partnering, and say they want to only pay €10 per kit, so they can wholesale at €20 and retail at €40, but only want to order 5000 units, "Sports Brand A" then have to try and hit that price point.

They could produce the very best quality kit for €14, but with a minimum of 10,000 units order, with a certified A1 factory in the far east, or they could, as requested by "Team X", produce a €10 kit, using a reliable factory, but one that doesn't fall into the A1 category, who are prepared to produce a minimum of 5000 units, but the final product will reflect the price thats been paid for it.

You get what you pay for in this industry.

The likes of the bigger sports Brands mentioned above would have a threshold on quality, and wouldn't go below it, as it reflects on them and they have a reputation to uphold.
In the above scenario the bigger brands will be telling the teams/clubs etc what the cost is of a Puma supplied kit, or a Nike supplied kit. And if you cant work with their minimums and they're pricing then they are not the right supplier for your team etc

I'd be surprised if an England RL jersey could sell more than 8-10,000 units maximum. And until that changes, we're only ever going to be able to attract those smaller brands. Like everything, such things need a strategy.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

Just seen this. I'll reserve judgement until I've seen the merchandise. 

[Eddie]

Must admit I didn’t think many adults were that fussed about what brand a replica shirt or other merch is, but the important thing would be what it looks, fits and feels like. I wouldn’t for example be more likely to buy an England shirt if it was Nike over Oxen, because of the brand, I’d just buy it if I liked the shirt whoever the manufacturer is. Obviously the teenage me would be appalled to hear this! 

[topcentre21]

3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

At last count we've got 4 shirts for this season before a ball has been kicked: Home, Away, Save the Rhino and Rob Burrow, 2 "drops" of training gear too. None of which I have found particularly appealing. I have got some navy shorts though that I'm sure are Oxen but aren't branded as such.

I don't know if you see it too but there always seems to be an offer or a deal on - to the extent that if I were to browse the rhinos shop and pay full price for something I'd feel I was being mugged! Is that because of the pandemic or is that Elite Pro Sports' normal modus operandi? 

I actually think for the likes of Wales, Ireland and Scotland etc, Oxen would be an ideal partner able to inject some professionalism into those outfits. But as I said earlier in the thread with Leeds and now England it feels like far more of a coup for Oxen than for those teams - which for arguably 2 of the sports top 5 premium brands isn't a great sign.

Is there anything saying how much if anything they are donating to the rob burrow cause? I would have thought they would be if using his name etc.

[The Frying Scotsman]

8 hours ago, EastLondonMike said:

Think Adi would be too difficult and too political. Puma or Umbro would be our best fit IMO, and probably the easiest to achieve. But would be a few years away and would depend on a successful and profitable period of growth with Oxen.
As well as a strategy for growth within the game.

Would Canterbury not be an easy one, and a good fit Mike?

I'd imagine it would be very simple for them given it is not exactly a huge account and they can easily roll the stuff out through their existing distribution network. 

[EastLondonMike]

59 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

Would Canterbury not be an easy one, and a good fit Mike?

I'd imagine it would be very simple for them given it is not exactly a huge account and they can easily roll the stuff out through their existing distribution network. 

Canterbury quite possibly could, though they have always had a reputation for being expensive.

And don't think they've ever really seen RL as having the same opportunities that exist within union.

there is/was a chance for a brand to really own the sport of RL, as there's never really been one brand more than any other associated with the sport. ISC could have been that brand, but have pulled back in the last couple of years.

Maybe it's going to be Oxen in time, or maybe O'Neills. Maybe it will be Puma or Umbro. It's there for the taking really if someone was prepared to get stuck in on a large scale. Though as I mentioned on a previous post, I think the game needs to sort itself out before that happens.

[17 stone giant]

I would like a chevron (or two) and the lion badge to be on the shirt.

[Scubby]

8 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

I would like a chevron (or two) and the lion badge to be on the shirt.

A blue and a red one? Joking aside, why don't we just use the iconic Lion badge on the England jersey - it is an amazing logo and timeless. If GB comes around again (which I doubt) design a new one.

[Hela Wigmen]

18 hours ago, Eddie said:

Must admit I didn’t think many adults were that fussed about what brand a replica shirt or other merch is, but the important thing would be what it looks, fits and feels like. I wouldn’t for example be more likely to buy an England shirt if it was Nike over Oxen, because of the brand, I’d just buy it if I liked the shirt whoever the manufacturer is. Obviously the teenage me would be appalled to hear this! 

I suppose reputation is a factor. Like if Saints decided tomorrow to go to Nike to make their kits, for example, I’d be safe in the knowledge that the quality would be pretty decent. If we moved to Oxen, having read the reactions of Leeds fans (I’m sure I’ve seen another clubs fans comment on them too) who have Oxen and the apparent lack of quality, I’d be more reluctant to buy from them without having seen the merchandise up close first. 

[Eddie]

19 minutes ago, Scubby said:

A blue and a red one? Joking aside, why don't we just use the iconic Lion badge on the England jersey - it is an amazing logo and timeless. If GB comes around again (which I doubt) design a new one.

I like the existing England badge, it’s simple but distinctive. I’d keep the Lions badge for them, or consign it to history if the Lions don’t come back. 

[Spidey]

I have not noticed any difference in quality between Oxen & O’Neills products that Widnes have sold so far. All these sublimated providers these day are much of a muchness to me for quality. It’s more about the range of products that I’ll be interested in

[RP London]

9 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I have not noticed any difference in quality between Oxen & O’Neills products that Widnes have sold so far. All these sublimated providers these day are much of a muchness to me for quality. It’s more about the range of products that I’ll be interested in

tend to agree with this comparing the warrington shirt i have to the new eagles shirt i would say they are pretty similar quality and fit wise.

[DI Keith Fowler]

3 hours ago, RP London said:

tend to agree with this comparing the warrington shirt i have to the new eagles shirt i would say they are pretty similar quality and fit wise.

Yeah they're a bit of a much of a muchness quality wise. I like that Oxen do embroidered badges but I think O'Neill's designs are better.