Owen Farrell to sign for Wigan?

[Damien]

7 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

It's not a given, no. But it's a bit like if I stood in the middle of the M25. I wouldn't know for certain that I'd get hit by a vehicle but I have a fair idea.

It's really not. It's awfully simplistic to say that because Andy was a top player that Owen would be. I think anyone growing up in RL towns have seen scores of sons of famous players amount to little.

Who are all the players that have successfully followed in their father's footsteps and become a top player like Andy Farrell? There are very, very few. Considerably more don't make it at all, struggle to break through like Umyla Hanley or have a career like Lewis Tierney.

[Jughead]

To wee on everybody’s chips both A&L Ventures Ltd and Ancient and Loyal Ltd were set up in 2020, so it’s either the longest running transfer saga or it’s just a bloke whose named his businesses after his birthplace’s town motto. 

[ELBOWSEYE]

10 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's really not. It's awfully simplistic to say that because Andy was a top player that Owen would be. I think anyone growing up in RL towns have seen scores of sons of famous players amount to little.

Who are all the players that have successfully followed in their father's footsteps and become a top player like Andy Farrell? There are very, very few. Considerably more don't make it at all, struggle to break through like Umyla Hanley or have a career like Lewis Tierney.

Seems like a good topic, sons of former professional players who made it or otherwise. 

[ELBOWSEYE]

1 minute ago, Jughead said:

To wee on everybody’s chips both A&L Ventures Ltd and Ancient and Loyal Ltd were set up in 2020, so it’s either the longest running transfer saga or it’s just a bloke whose named his businesses after his birthplace’s town motto. 

Its just filling a gap after the WC and the new season. 

[Oxford]

If we're talking probability the likelihood that some Leaguie somewhere who also likes yawn ( Yes, I know!)   thinking that he's a fantastic judge of horseflesh will turn up on a league forum is astronomically higher than any certainty about K&C players making it in TGG.

But I haven't laughed so much for ages as when I read whatsit Farrell was a Nathan Cleary in waiting.

And given how often his dad went MIA I think the biological argument doesn't hold much water either.

As any genealogist will tell you in any  family tree the only certainty is that the woman who gave birth is your mother.

Or as my Dad used to say "I think the lodger had it in for him!"

 

 

[dkw]

13 hours ago, Welshleaguelover said:

 

If he crossed over now then he'd be at least serviceable halfback in both super league and the NRL at the very least.

 

 

I disagree on this bit, I think he could play in RL at a decent level, but I dont think he has the time to change his game to fit SL as a half back at all. 

[Just Browny]

There are a lot of ingredients which impact on how good your spell is in a team which have little to do with how good you are. How good is the coaching staff, how well is the team working together, how does your particular skillset complement the team's style of play, etc.

Look at George Williams. Some fans are desperate to say he's been terrible since he came to Warrington; I'm more of the opinion that he has done many good things in a terrible side that has no clear game plan or cohesion.

I imagine Owen Farrell would have every chance of succeeding in RL, even now. He understands the basics of how the game is played, he has been exposed to world class dietary and physical regimes, many of his coaches in union have come from rugby league and introduced rugby league drills and concepts. And yet he could sign for a failing side and it would be very hard for him. 

I have no idea whether he wants to. But anyone saying 'why would he do it when he could fail?' isn't showing much insight into the mindset of a professional sportsman or the attitude that has probably got him to his current standing.

[Man of Kent]

46 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's really not. It's awfully simplistic to say that because Andy was a top player that Owen would be. I think anyone growing up in RL towns have seen scores of sons of famous players amount to little.

I hear all that but the difference here is Owen Farrell has won 100 England caps, which gives rather more credence to the argument.

[The Future is League]

Owen will be 32 after the next union world cup and i don't see him coming to our game at that age. My money would be on we will never see him play for Wigan in Super League or the challenge cup

[Saint Toppy]

1 hour ago, BadlyOverdrawnBoy said:

Have you any stats for this? It may be true for recent signings but I the past many union signings quickly became some of the best players in the game. For example Cliff Watson, Len Killeen and Merv Hicks at Saints, Graham Rees and Alan Buckley at Swinton, and I'm sure many others. These were not big name signings, just club players spotted by scouts.

I'm not talking way back in the amateur days when both codes were part timers. Both games have changed massively and got much further apart since the dawn of professionalism. Even players at the top of their games in Union struggle massively to adapt to league because of the speed, intensity and physicality of the game nowadays.

[Dunbar]

56 minutes ago, Oxford said:

But I haven't laughed so much for ages as when I read whatsit Farrell was a Nathan Cleary in waiting.

I enjoy a good discussion about the skills and abilities of players and how they could transfer.  Whether that be Super League to NRL or one code to the other or vice versa.

Maybe you could provide your technical analysis of Owen Farrell as a Union player and where his skill set differs so much from Nathan Cleary as to make the comparison comical?

[Dunbar]

I find the subext in these kind of threads fascinating. 

Farrell may be of 'good stock' and that may mean something or nothing.  But what I find strange is anyone suggesting that his skill set in Union won't translate to League. 

He has a superb tactical kicking game, an array or passing, very good game management and very physical in defence.

I am the first to admit that it is too late to see what could have been as he probably needed to play in his late 20's at the earliest to have a chance at fully adapting technically and tactically but these suggestions that he would be no good at all suggest a little bit of insecurity on our part if I'm being honest.

[Damien]

55 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I hear all that but the difference here is Owen Farrell has won 100 England caps, which gives rather more credence to the argument.

No it doesn't. Thats a different sport in a different environment and there are a myriad of reasons players don't make it. I'd actually argue that moving down South, going to a completely different type of school and playing a different sport helped Owen immensely compared to the goldfish bowl that is the Wigan RL scene where he would have constant comparisons to his father and a whole host of distractions off the field and schoolmates getting up to all sorts.

[Man of Kent]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

No it doesn't. Thats a different sport in a different environment and there are a myriad of reasons players don't make it. I'd actually argue that moving down South, going to a completely different type of school and playing a different sport helped Owen immensely compared to the goldfish bowl that is the Wigan RL scene where he would have constant comparisons to his father and a whole host of distractions off the field and schoolmates getting up to all sorts.

OK, cool.

At the end of the day, you can choose to believe that a world class yawnionist would make it in league or choose not to.

Now excuse me while I get back to watching Jiffy Davies’ best tries vid on YouTube.

[The Masked Poster]

2 hours ago, BadlyOverdrawnBoy said:

Have you any stats for this? It may be true for recent signings but I the past many union signings quickly became some of the best players in the game. For example Cliff Watson, Len Killeen and Merv Hicks at Saints, Graham Rees and Alan Buckley at Swinton, and I'm sure many others. These were not big name signings, just club players spotted by scouts.

The version of events I always heard re: Cliff Watson, was that he contacted Saints in response to some sort of recruitment campaign, rather than actually being scouted. 

[Hopping Mad]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

It's really not. It's awfully simplistic to say that because Andy was a top player that Owen would be. I think anyone growing up in RL towns have seen scores of sons of famous players amount to little.

Who are all the players that have successfully followed in their father's footsteps and become a top player like Andy Farrell? There are very, very few. Considerably more don't make it at all, struggle to break through like Umyla Hanley or have a career like Lewis Tierney.

Brings to mind what Milton Huddart (an England international and, by any standards, a useful rugby league player) said about being Dick's son: "It doesn't bother me that I'm not as good as my dad because neither are 20,000 others."

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

OK, cool.

At the end of the day, you can choose to believe that a world class yawnionist would make it in league or choose not to.

Now excuse me while I get back to watching Jiffy Davies’ best tries vid on YouTube.

Oh strawman time I see. I don't know if Owen would have made it in RL or not, there are simply too many variables and many equally as good players have disappeared without trace over the years. What I have already said is as a junior it was clear that Owen Farrell had all the skills to succeed in Rugby League. We can only speculate if he would have made it or gone on to have the same success in Rugby League as he has in Union.

What I do find laughable is your argument that Owen would have made it just because of who is father is when the vast amount of evidence shows this is not the case. Thats just incredibly simplistic and shows little awareness of amateur and junior RL.

[Pie tries]

Don’t forget Owen started out in RL, never played a game of rah rah before he moved with his dad…

[headtackle]

4 hours ago, The Masked Poster said:

The version of events I always heard re: Cliff Watson, was that he contacted Saints in response to some sort of recruitment campaign, rather than actually being scouted. 

Saints put an advert in a paper to get Cliff Watson

Think he was from Coventry or somewhere in that area

[Jinking Jimmy]

6 minutes ago, headtackle said:

 

 

6 minutes ago, headtackle said:

Saints put an advert in a paper to get Cliff Watson

Think he was from Coventry or somewhere in that area

He was from Stepney, London.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Jinking Jimmy

[MatthewWoody]

Can we say there's a slight prejudice against rugby union here? 

Edited November 24, 2022 by MatthewWoody

[Tippytoe]

1 hour ago, MatthewWoody said:

Can we say there's a slight prejudice against rugby union here? 

Played by people with odd shaped balls.

[Man of Kent]

59 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Can we say there's a slight prejudice against rugby union here? 

Slight, yes

I don’t hate yawnion, but as a leaguie I just find it tediously dull - and firm in my belief that RL is the finest oval ball sport on Earth.

That said, I can appreciate that some RU players have transferable skills and from what I’ve seen Owen Farrell is one. He’s big, he’s strong, he can pass, he can kick, and he’s a strong personality.

I agree with Sam Tomkins on this. 

[JohnM]

I've been off grid most of today (First Christmas Lunch of the year for me) at  Barnacles , near Hinckley, so forgive me if I've missed his signing for Wigan. 

[bobbruce]

12 hours ago, Jinking Jimmy said:

 

He was from Stepney, London.

He was but he was playing for a team in the midlands at the time.