Whitehaven

[dkw]

15 minutes ago, LeeF said:

The usual complete and utter rubbish from someone, as evidenced by the opening paragraph, who knows nothing. North isn’t West by any definition and as for the 40 minutes - good luck with that

40 is definitely doable from lillyhall, in fact it's pretty much a standard time really unless there's an accident or other problems obviously.

It can be more during the holidays but I've never really had many problems.

[Saint Toppy]

15 minutes ago, LeeF said:

The usual complete and utter rubbish from someone, as evidenced by the opening paragraph, who knows nothing. North isn’t West by any definition and as for the 40 minutes - good luck with that

I know exactly how long it takes having worked at the National Highways depot at J40 and travelled regularly to the depot at Lillyhall for many years (all be it not in the last few years). The only times 40mins wasn't feasible is of you happen to get stuck behind a line of caravans & motorhomes in the summer along one of the single carriageway sections, or if there's extreem weather given some of the sections like Bassenthwaite get pretty treacherous

[tbgfc]

Who is going to pay for this merger and new stadium at Lillyhall, it would take an investment of millions would it not? The current plans for our new stadium in Workington i doubt will be super league standard with the current funding in place and will be a shared football stadium with Workington Reds.

There was a strong rumour that both Town and Haven approached the RLF to discuss a merger quite a few years ago and were told the only funding they would get from them would be double central funding for 1 year, which would equate to 80k this season based on what Haven say they got.

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

On 12/07/2023 at 09:25, Barley Mow said:

You say that they don't have to walk that tightrope, but it seems to me that the tightrope in question is semi-pro rugby league. If they aren't walking this tightrope, they don't exist.

There may be things they can do to increase income, but their outgoings seem to just cover what is necessary to run as a middle of the road championship club.

Spend less and there's a big risk of being in L1, where there are increased travel costs, less central funding and only 9 home league matches to gain match day income - potentially leaving them in a worse position even if able to reduce player payments, etc.

Which of our semi-pro clubs (without a benefactor) are in a significantly better position, where a bad season or two wouldn't result in financial problems?

What risk (tightrope) are you suggesting they can step back from and still continue to operate?

you keep throwing your argument at the 'semi-pro' clubs but how many of their super league compatriots would still be full time professionals without a benefactor?

Its a classic chicken and egg conundrum, super league clubs need a vibrant championship, league one and community game in order to maintain the profile of the sport, not to mention the player pool and interest in the game to either watch, play or subscribe to Sky Tv or whoever to fund the sport.

Whitehaven may have over budgeted and overspent this season, but they are still victims of the overall mess the RFL finds itself in as they claim that their central funding levels weren't cut until after the season had started.

Yes, you could argue that Whitehaven and the other clubs in the championship and league one shouldn't have given any contracts out until the funding was agreed for this season, but you and I and everyone else on this forum knows that isn't how clubs at any level operate.

  

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

21 hours ago, OttO said:

Cumbria was not abolished, Cumbria is still a very much a county....... What happened earlier this year was the district councils were abolished and new councils were set up as Cumberland Council + Westmoreland & Furness Council, as the level bellow Cumbria County Council.

Cumbria County council is no more pal - it was absorbed with the other local district councils and split to form Westmorland & Furness and Cumberland Council

[LeeF]

2 hours ago, dkw said:

40 is definitely doable from lillyhall, in fact it's pretty much a standard time really unless there's an accident or other problems obviously.

It can be more during the holidays but I've never really had many problems.

Fair enough as you probably do that journey more than me these days but for a summer sport in the peak holiday season playing on the busiest day ie Sundays etc. 

As for the rest of his “suggestion” it’s all pie in the sky and not even a starter for numerous reasons not least it’s unworkable and there is no money available. 

[LeeF]

13 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

you keep throwing your argument at the 'semi-pro' clubs but how many of their super league compatriots would still be full time professionals without a benefactor?

Its a classic chicken and egg conundrum, super league clubs need a vibrant championship, league one and community game in order to maintain the profile of the sport, not to mention the player pool and interest in the game to either watch, play or subscribe to Sky Tv or whoever to fund the sport.

Whitehaven may have over budgeted and overspent this season, but they are still victims of the overall mess the RFL finds itself in as they claim that their central funding levels weren't cut until after the season had started.

Yes, you could argue that Whitehaven and the other clubs in the championship and league one shouldn't have given any contracts out until the funding was agreed for this season, but you and I and everyone else on this forum knows that isn't how clubs at any level operate.

  

Fair points. By most accounts/ comments central funding was confirmed in November last year which was later than in previous years. It was also over £100k down on the previous year. 

[Barley Mow]

17 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

you keep throwing your argument at the 'semi-pro' clubs but how many of their super league compatriots would still be full time professionals without a benefactor?

Its a classic chicken and egg conundrum, super league clubs need a vibrant championship, league one and community game in order to maintain the profile of the sport, not to mention the player pool and interest in the game to either watch, play or subscribe to Sky Tv or whoever to fund the sport.

Whitehaven may have over budgeted and overspent this season, but they are still victims of the overall mess the RFL finds itself in as they claim that their central funding levels weren't cut until after the season had started.

Yes, you could argue that Whitehaven and the other clubs in the championship and league one shouldn't have given any contracts out until the funding was agreed for this season, but you and I and everyone else on this forum knows that isn't how clubs at any level operate.

  

I don't think I keep throwing any argument at semi-pro clubs. As far as I recall that was the only comment I've made about them in this thread.

My post must have come across wrong anyway, because I was trying to say that I don't think Haven have done anything out of the ordinary for Championship clubs and point out how difficult it can be for such clubs in general.

[Griff]

5 hours ago, LeeF said:

The usual complete and utter rubbish from someone, as evidenced by the opening paragraph, who knows nothing. North isn’t West by any definition and as for the 40 minutes - good luck with that

It's at least 50.

[Derwent]

An ex-Haven chairman has posted on Facebook that the reason they are skint is that they took a short term loan of £104,000 from the RFL in 2021 and now it’s having to be paid back they are struggling.

[dkw]

16 hours ago, Griff said:

It's at least 50.

Its not.

[donald]

It's 50 minutes from whitehaven to penrith so will be 40 from Lillyhall 

[sheddingswasus]

I hope Whitehaven survive this. 

A lot of this goes back to the RFL having the expansion mindset at the detriment of the heartlands clubs. 

i have always maintained that we must have a strong “heart” to the game for any expansion to occur and this is not the case. 

Cumberland has produced some amazing players over the years and still continues to do so. 

if we lose the tree we will lose the roots which in this case is the local league players. Lose these and future growth is lost. 

investment is needed in the heartlands to grow the game. Growth from within is the best firm of growth. 

This isn’t a “fervent traditionalist” rant, but a hope that the powers that be realise we need to build on our strengths 

[OriginalMrC]

24 minutes ago, sheddingswasus said:

I hope Whitehaven survive this. 

A lot of this goes back to the RFL having the expansion mindset at the detriment of the heartlands clubs. 

i have always maintained that we must have a strong “heart” to the game for any expansion to occur and this is not the case. 

Cumberland has produced some amazing players over the years and still continues to do so. 

if we lose the tree we will lose the roots which in this case is the local league players. Lose these and future growth is lost. 

investment is needed in the heartlands to grow the game. Growth from within is the best firm of growth. 

This isn’t a “fervent traditionalist” rant, but a hope that the powers that be realise we need to build on our strengths 

How has expansion caused cash flow problems at Whitehaven? I'd love to know 

[sheddingswasus]

It hasn't now, i agree, but the lack of investment generally in the heartlands certainly has contributed tom many clubs problems

 

[OriginalMrC]

28 minutes ago, sheddingswasus said:

It hasn't now, i agree, but the lack of investment generally in the heartlands certainly has contributed tom many clubs problems

 

But yet nearly all funding has gone to heartlands clubs. A small percentage overall has gone to expansion clubs. Some heartlands clubs have used the money wisely but many haven't. Expansion cannot be blamed for mismanagement and cash flow issues at heartlands clubs. 

[Griff]

2 hours ago, donald said:

It's 50 minutes from whitehaven to penrith so will be 40 from Lillyhall 

Depends what you're driving.  AA routes says 49 minutes for a car so it'll be more in a bus with a speed limiter.

[Toby Chopra]

2 hours ago, sheddingswasus said:

I hope Whitehaven survive this. 

A lot of this goes back to the RFL having the expansion mindset at the detriment of the heartlands clubs. 

i have always maintained that we must have a strong “heart” to the game for any expansion to occur and this is not the case. 

Cumberland has produced some amazing players over the years and still continues to do so. 

if we lose the tree we will lose the roots which in this case is the local league players. Lose these and future growth is lost. 

investment is needed in the heartlands to grow the game. Growth from within is the best firm of growth. 

This isn’t a “fervent traditionalist” rant, but a hope that the powers that be realise we need to build on our strengths 

Lol, the RFL (which IS the clubs by the way) do NOT have an expansion mindset. If only they did. 

[RP London]

4 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

But yet nearly all funding has gone to heartlands clubs. A small percentage overall has gone to expansion clubs. Some heartlands clubs have used the money wisely but many haven't. Expansion cannot be blamed for mismanagement and cash flow issues at heartlands clubs. 

And yet it is always the excuse that gets brought out when a heartlands club is in trouble and its always proven to be tosh..

 

[dkw]

10 hours ago, Derwent said:

An ex-Haven chairman has posted on Facebook that the reason they are skint is that they took a short term loan of £104,000 from the RFL in 2021 and now it’s having to be paid back they are struggling.

If that's true and they haven't budgeted for that then as harsh as it may sound this situation is all of there own making 

[ATLANTISMAN]

6 hours ago, sheddingswasus said:

I hope Whitehaven survive this. 

A lot of this goes back to the RFL having the expansion mindset at the detriment of the heartlands clubs. 

i have always maintained that we must have a strong “heart” to the game for any expansion to occur and this is not the case. 

Cumberland has produced some amazing players over the years and still continues to do so. 

if we lose the tree we will lose the roots which in this case is the local league players. Lose these and future growth is lost. 

investment is needed in the heartlands to grow the game. Growth from within is the best firm of growth. 

This isn’t a “fervent traditionalist” rant, but a hope that the powers that be realise we need to build on our strengths 

Totally agree and i am 100% expansionist 

Cumbria clubs + the likes of Oldham Rochdale and others need 100% support 

[RP London]

15 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Totally agree and i am 100% expansionist 

Cumbria clubs + the likes of Oldham Rochdale and others need 100% support 

But they get as 100% as they would get with no expansion clubs in the mix.. one of the big issues with expansion is that they don't get extra help

[donald]

6 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

But yet nearly all funding has gone to heartlands clubs. A small percentage overall has gone to expansion clubs. Some heartlands clubs have used the money wisely but many haven't. Expansion cannot be blamed for mismanagement and cash flow issues at heartlands clubs. 

Nearly all funding as gone to heartland clubs but it's all a load of ######. 

Super league at a guess get 2.3 million each

League 1 30k each ( probably less )

Championship large payments 750k for the elite  clubs then staggered payments down to 40k for the paupers . 

Totally unfair how they do it years ago it used to be level payments in the Championship 

[OriginalMrC]

22 minutes ago, donald said:

Nearly all funding as gone to heartland clubs but it's all a load of ######. 

Super league at a guess get 2.3 million each

League 1 30k each ( probably less )

Championship large payments 750k for the elite  clubs then staggered payments down to 40k for the paupers . 

Totally unfair how they do it years ago it used to be level payments in the Championship 

Championship and League 1 get even less than that. Agree that it needs to be more even. A stronger championship and league 1 is in the interests of Superleague who appear to be relient on academies that aren't necessarily giving them the players they want 

[Phil W]

It's never good to see any club in trouble and hopefully Whitehaven pull through.

Has there been some financial miss-management? Possibly.

But as has been said given the players produced through Cumbria the game needs Cumbria and other areas.

For me, in order to make the game overall is this where IMG come in? Working with club's on their weaknesses to improve them and in turn improving rugby league, but club's should also stick to what they can afford to do.