Applications to League 1 Open

[del capo]

7 hours ago, yipyee said:

Whats wrong with being semi pro AND a community club, why either or..

You can do both but it is not easy. The Aussies manage it and so do 'local' R U clubs.

Both Preston Grasshoppers and Rossendale in Lancashire , hardly movers and shakers, offered NCL players £ 150 a game last year. Same happens in Yorkshire.

Our game needs to think wider but to do that you have to have administrators/ volunteers  with  special talents - we just don't have enough of them.....

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, del capo said:

You can do both but it is not easy. The Aussies manage it and so do 'local' R U clubs.

Both Preston Grasshoppers and Rossendale in Lancashire , hardly movers and shakers, offered NCL players £ 150 a game last year. Same happens in Yorkshire.

Our game needs to think wider but to do that you have to have administrators/ volunteers  with  special talents - we just don't have enough of them.....

Preston Grasshoppers offered people £150 a game to play?? 
 

Edit - I assumed they were an amateur RL team, not Union.   

Edited June 2, 2024 by Eddie

[RP London]

19 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

SCL should just be 1 of various "League 2"/Step 4 level Leagues IMO.

They need to "formalise" a pyramid as they did back in the days of NL3 and the RLC Premier... 

NL3 split north and south but with cross over games was still the best idea they had IMHO.

[RP London]

13 hours ago, gingerjon said:

All it needed was another five years of investment (in my view) and you would have seen enough clubs put down roots to justify the expenditure. There has been no greater act of self sabotage in the game's history. Our current, contracted, diminishing, state is entirely down to losing the money and then throwing what little we had elsewhere at dead ends instead.

And, back to this, I can't see anything from any of the clubs putting their names forward - kudos for doing so nevertheless - to say it'll be anything other than disastrous for them.

(It's Sunday so this seems an apt response.. )

Ahmen to that!!

[groundhopper]

I think we need to look at the clubs that have tried from non heartlands areas and there have been some very good ones with very good ideas.

Hemel and Skolars set the bar for what has to be exceeded. The first developed the game throughout their immediate area, with a youth development league in neighbouring towns built up over many years before and playing in tough leagues including the conference and national 3. They were able to augment with London based Australians and KIwis and developed their own ground. It could be easily argued they did much more for the game then some of the existing heartlands teams with a policy of other clubs cast offs and renting stadiums and no youth development or even an A team. Yet Hemel failed to make it for the same reason as Skolars. 
 

There is still minimal RL heritage in London ie ex players connected with their former club as coaches, kitmen and even encouraging their kids to play the game as soon as they can run and no schools. Even the most skilled players are at a disadvantage and the distances the enthusiasts drive the kids for an under 11s festival is astounding. 
 

It is not the lack of enthusiasm that is the problem, it is the small pool of people. 
 

As a result Hemel had to bring in northern players to be competitive, no team has managed to be so, with locals however hard they have tried. 
 

Coventry Bears were another wonderful set up, supporting and developing community clubs and encouraging players through the university system and went into schools. Ultimately the RL cut the funding and the new owners have rightly decided for the team to grow, they need to use Northern Players. On the field results are improved.

South Wales always looked to have the potential but unless heavily funded it cannot succeed. The area is parochial. I was at a village called GIlfach Goch yesterday to watch the local team play Rhondda Outlaws in an 8 team Welsh RL league. 200 turned up because it was a game in the village, but I doubt more than a handful would have considered travelling to Llanelli or Cardiff to watch a game. There is some but little anti RL prejudice in the area and probably more anti Cardiff overall, at least in sporting terms.

Cornwall is the latest to try and again what they have managed to do is amazing but they have sought out the best talent in an area where people thought there may be none. For the most part they have however found exiled northerners who are missing the game. They have the best there is.

I went to the first game at Penryn and the train from Plymouth picked up RL fans in replica shirts at most stops and there was a large group on the local from Truro. Many were already RL fans as replica shirts showed, What is unclear is how they can improve significantly on what they have done. The losses mentioned above suggest an imminent problem. Crowds are excellent but notably lower when I revIsited. 

All of the above clubs are much better than the 80’s versions where a club chairman thought there was easy money and they lasted a season or slightly more, Southend, Scarborough, Bridgend etc.

No one has so far broken the facts that summarise all of the above, you need Northern players and will not get the crowds to support the costs which are higher than if you are based in the heartlands. 

If this sound negative apologies, I have watched the clubs looking to move up and do see the possibility at Goole because of where it is and the possibility of being the beat team in the town.

Do I have useful suggestions, I am not sure, the southern conference needs a revamp but the strength is London sides whose players are mostly social players, a good day out on a coach yes, but not travelling to Yorkshire every week.

Outside of London, something else is required and that is name opposition. Keighley are at Hurricanes later today and it is great to see such opposition in the West MIdlands, I am sure it would be the same at say All Golds, Bedford or in Norfolk but the clubs cannot be compared. Without this even if in Norwich, Hammersmith Hill Hoist will never be a draw.

Two other thoughts. The NCL is a superb league doing what is does well. The majority of teams are within 3 miles of a semi pro of pro side and have nothing to gain especially if having to travel the long distances of League One. I hope none apply.

My final criticism is directed against our new lords and masters, who seem to be taking money out of the game and not investing enthusiasm or ideas. At my level ie amateur they are not even adding to the pool of money needed to assist development. 

 

[Derwent Parker]

On 30/05/2024 at 10:08, Anita Bath said:

Has anyone considered the game might not be able to support 36 professional teams? 

Its sad to say that it will be cheaper?

the current 35 [SL12, CH14 and L1 - 9] = 35

With 3 x 12 = 36 

2 Champ teams will go in L1 and will each lose far more CF [central Funding] than the Pittance the new L1 team will receive - therefore cheaper?

[Anita Bath]

10 hours ago, yipyee said:

The game or the same small pot..

Presuming the idea is to expand to create a larger pool/ pot so its all supported.

If the game was looking to add in the same old fails or teams on each others doorsteps then I would agree but this looks different.

It looked different when it was Hemel, Gloucester, Bristol, Oxford, Kent…….

[del capo]

7 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

It looked different when it was Hemel, Gloucester, Bristol, Oxford, Kent…….

You can add to that list. The common thread was that they all tried to run before they could walk - Carlisle, Scarborough, Mansfield etc.

And none of them were looked after properly by the Governing Body.

[Mumby Magic]

2 hours ago, del capo said:

You can add to that list. The common thread was that they all tried to run before they could walk - Carlisle, Scarborough, Mansfield etc.

And none of them were looked after properly by the Governing Body.

The last sentence is key.

It's always been a hhtow as much mud as you can and see what sticks. With minimal support. I alway feel we are on the periphary of success and common sense but alas.......

My optimism of neatly 40 years is starting to wane.

[gingerjon]

4 hours ago, del capo said:

You can add to that list. The common thread was that they all tried to run before they could walk - Carlisle, Scarborough, Mansfield etc.

And none of them were looked after properly by the Governing Body.

Carlisle lasted 17 years. Bit different to some of the others.

[Gomersall]

2 hours ago, Mumby Magic said:

My optimism of neatly 40 years is starting to wane.

You and me both.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

3 hours ago, Mumby Magic said:

My optimism of neatly 40 years is starting to wane.

Since I've been following the game there's never been any proper strategy to expand the footprint of the sport - the RFL have just relied on rugby league missionaries to spread the gospel for them. The introduction of several expansion teams in to League 1 a few years back allowed them to put some pins in a map and claim that they were doing something, when in reality they just threw some money at the teams and left them to sink or swim. They even included the areas of Oxford, Gloucester, Coventry and Hemel as 'emerging affinity areas' in one of their 'strategic plans': https://www.rugby-league.com/uploads/docs/RFL-Rugby League Strategic Plan 2014-2021.pdf

These areas were only included because of the League 1 clubs that were based there, despite having next-to-no infrastructure underpinning them, and all of these areas have since disappeared from the pro game. It would be nice to know who is accountable for what has happened to these areas and why they have disappeared from subsequent RFL Strategic Plans. Moreover, reading about the 'Features of the Emerging Affinity areas', it appears that much of this has collapsed and/or never happened, and no sustained and meaningful support for these areas was ever provided.

This current desire for a new League 1 club is a classic case of tail wagging the dog, and I fully expect the same mistakes of previous years to be repeated yet again.

[Mumby Magic]

5 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Since I've been following the game there's never been any proper strategy to expand the footprint of the sport - the RFL have just relied on rugby league missionaries to spread the gospel for them. The introduction of several expansion teams in to League 1 a few years back allowed them to put some pins in a map and claim that they were doing something, when in reality they just threw some money at the teams and left them to sink or swim. They even included the areas of Oxford, Gloucester, Coventry and Hemel as 'emerging affinity areas' in one of their 'strategic plans': https://www.rugby-league.com/uploads/docs/RFL-Rugby League Strategic Plan 2014-2021.pdf

These areas were only included because of the League 1 clubs that were based there, despite having next-to-no infrastructure underpinning them, and all of these areas have since disappeared from the pro game. It would be nice to know who is accountable for what has happened to these areas and why they have disappeared from subsequent RFL Strategic Plans. Moreover, reading about the 'Features of the Emerging Affinity areas', it appears that much of this has collapsed and/or never happened, and no sustained and meaningful support for these areas was ever provided.

This current desire for a new League 1 club is a classic case of tail wagging the dog, and I fully expect the same mistakes of previous years to be repeated yet again.

100 percent right. Couldn't have put it better myself. Its sad really

[Hemel Rugby League]

The support Hemel Stags received from the RFL in its path towards joining  the then Championnship 1 was outstanding. Once accepted, in 2012, we received additional support to employ a full time Community/Commercial Manager,  as well as other support, so much so that when we ran out on the field in 2013 for our first C1 match we had £26k on our shirts as well as another £85k guaranteed from the RFL.  The other clubs - Oxford, Uni of Gloucestershire All Golds, Coventry  - received similar support. And the four clubs had the additional support of a RFL Club Support Officer - Andy Lindley - who had the specific brief of supporting those 4 clubs.

What happened after that is a different story, though.....

[Henson Park Old Firm]

I'm going to throw my hat into the ring and start my own club for League 1

 

Edinburgh Ironmongers  RLFC

[yipyee]

22 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

The two types of club have completely different functions with limited or no overlap in personnel, skillsets, finances, facilities, or expertise required. You can't grow a community club into a professional outfit - you'd have to start almost everything from scratch.

And nor, I think, should you want to. One of the biggest threats to community clubs is overreach. Unless you are bringing in a whole new set of people and £££, the people currently running the community side will find themselves overwhelmed - and if you are bringing in a completely new set of people, let them set up a new entity that is separate from the community club.

So your saying you can't pay a match fee to the amateur players because it will overwhelm the admin team ?!

And you are saying if volunteers who can make this happen are knocking around the club they are not welcome and should go and set up a new club on the doorstep?

 

Your post is everything that is wrong with RL

[yipyee]

22 hours ago, Gomersall said:

I don’t see how adding one team to League 1 is going to grow the pot? 

Well if you add a team in this will bring in extra revenue that wasn't there before. Extra sponsorship that wasn't there before, so new money into the game. New players from a new area etc..

[yipyee]

21 hours ago, del capo said:

You can do both but it is not easy. The Aussies manage it and so do 'local' R U clubs.

Both Preston Grasshoppers and Rossendale in Lancashire , hardly movers and shakers, offered NCL players £ 150 a game last year. Same happens in Yorkshire.

Our game needs to think wider but to do that you have to have administrators/ volunteers  with  special talents - we just don't have enough of them.....

Or as another poster put it they are not welcome and should set something up themselves 

[yipyee]

18 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

It looked different when it was Hemel, Gloucester, Bristol, Oxford, Kent…….

Learning lessons you would say Hemel failed because they imported players from the North and even played games in the North? So they moved away from being the club that initially applied.

Gloucester didn't seem a sustainable model based around students ?

Bristol never in league1? Or Kent?

Oxford were successful to a point, not sure why they failed.

Midlands struggled when the funding for development officers were cut. Funny then when sports England pulled the funding which was supposed to go to fund the Midlands development officers and there was uproar..

[Gomersall]

3 hours ago, yipyee said:

Well if you add a team in this will bring in extra revenue that wasn't there before. Extra sponsorship that wasn't there before, so new money into the game. New players from a new area etc..

My take on growing the pot is everyone benefits not just a single team. That could be said for every club in the RFL leagues.

[Impartial Observer]

3 hours ago, yipyee said:

 

Oxford were successful to a point, not sure why they failed.

 

I think Oxford failed as most of the their players were based around Castleford and the only time they went to Oxford was for a home game.  

[Damien]

7 minutes ago, Impartial Observer said:

I think Oxford failed as most of the their players were based around Castleford and the only time they went to Oxford was for a home game.  

And this is why I think turning League 1 into more of a development type league is the way forward. If you have 12 teams all facing the same issues and playing at a similar standard then there is no need for clubs to feel they have to ship in players from the North just to compete. We have seen this with various expansion sides and it never bodes well and usually ends with the death of the club.

[Guest]

You're pretty much guaranteed to lose 90% of your games as a southern expansion side unless you have a rich owner or  investment to fund paying decent players from the north or down under.  Not sure this can work for any of the southern clubs unless they have some exceptional financial backing. And if they don't they'll just be on the back foot from day 1 with tiny crowds.

[Guest]

Just now, Damien said:

And this is why I think turning League 1 into more of a development type league is the way forward. If you have 12 teams all facing the same issues and playing at a similar standard then there is no need for clubs to feel they have to ship in players from the North just to compete. We have seen this with various expansion sides and it never bodes well and usually ends with the death of the club.

But where would it end up? We'd have a 3rd tier "pro" league with teams of a lower quality than the top few amateur leagues below it.  What's the point?  

[Damien]

Just now, Tre Cool said:

But where would it end up? We'd have a 3rd tier "pro" league with teams of a lower quality than the top few amateur leagues below it.  What's the point?  

We already have it with 4 development style teams anyway, and a few more that have fell by the wayside because League 1 doesn't suit either heartland teams or development teams. NCL is a completely different setup with different aims. It is not a pathway to the professional game for any aspiring side, nor should it be.