4 Oct: Super League Semi-Final: St Helens v Warrington Wolves KO 7.45pm (TV)

[Kenilworth Tiger]

Well amongst all the doom of recent threads, last night showcased once again that we have the best product on show of any spectator sport in the world. To be watching as a neutral and be on the edge of your seat, a bag of nerves,  is testimony to the quality on show last night.

 

Wire showed incredible resilience to win that - I thought the game had gone when Saints edged ahead

 

Well done Wire, brilliant performance and hope we can win tonight set up a cracker at Old Trafford

Thompson MOM was s surprise to me - very very strong runner but doesn't half go missing for big periods

[andyscoot]

1 hour ago, Old Frightful said:

Richardson and Barba might be useful with ball in hand occasionally but they had no interest in stopping Tom Lineham scoring the last try. That was the difference between going to Old Trafford and not going. You'd have thought a bit more effort might have been made.

Richardson was moving across and got done by the inside step. barba however was well positioned to at least make a tackle even if momentum carried him over. He just stuck out a lazy arm like he has been doing a lot recently.

[Desert Skipper]

58 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I have to say I really dislike this “hubcap” jibe. We watch our teams for 8 months, and it is a great achievement to finish top of the league. It doesn’t deserve to be denigrated, it deserves to be celebrated. I think Holroyd has got a huge amount out of Saints, through conditioning, coaching and organisation. When you compare them with how they were up to last Easter, the same group of players has kicked on hugely. What he now has to do is work out how far this group can actually go, how to recruit the talent they need, and how to develop the talent that is already there. He will also have a far better idea of the rhythms of an English season,  and when to peak, which can be an art form. 

Finally, I think they have been over praised at times - which is not their fault at all - if the story had been “wow, look at what Holroyd is getting out of pretty much the same group as struggled last year, with added Barba,” then their season could feel very different from this look at these wall to wall world beaters. 

It’s a fine achievement for Holroyd considering he hasn’t reallly done much since leaving Leeds in the late 90s.   The best comeback since Lazarus.   He’s also smaller and ginger-ish which I didn’t expect.

[Oxford]

Well done to the Wolves and that's part of my prediction come true, though I did that more so Saints wouldn't dominate hope the next one and the one after follow suit.

Warrington were as good as I've seen them though BMM looked out of sorts.

[Faithful1865]

Great result for Wire and well played to them.  Assuming Pies get through tonight I think they will be a much harder proposition than Saints.  They are very much in the mould of Wayne and are certainly more mentally tough. Hope tonight's game is as good as last nights.

[Dave T]

Some of the stats from last night are staggering.

Saints had 47 more carries, effectively 10 more sets of tackles to try and score.

In turn Wire had to make 46 more tackles than Saints.

Wire gave 12 penalties away and got 7. Sustained penalties usually lead to tries.

Despite this, Saints could make only 3 breaks and score one try (and lets be honest, that should have been cleaned up by Ratchford and Brown). 

For a team that has scored more tries than any other team all year, to score only one try with all that dominance is a ringing endorsement of Wire's defence as well as highlighting how bad a showing it was for Saints.

It was a belter of a game, but I actually think there is a lot of improvement required by Wire for next week, whoever they play, as with a bit more composure it could have been a far more convincing win last night despite the extraordinary stats.

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

Great game for the neutral.  Some real drama and see saw action.

Eventually, Saints cumulative mistakes pulled the team down even more than Ratchford's one man disaster show did for Wire.

Still think the winner will come from the 2nd semi though.

[Exiled Wiganer]

52 minutes ago, Desert Skipper said:

It’s a fine achievement for Holroyd considering he hasn’t reallly done much since leaving Leeds in the late 90s.   The best comeback since Lazarus.   He’s also smaller and ginger-ish which I didn’t expect.

Ha - now edited for accuracy! 

[Just Browny]

39 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Some of the stats from last night are staggering.

Saints had 47 more carries, effectively 10 more sets of tackles to try and score.

In turn Wire had to make 46 more tackles than Saints.

Wire gave 12 penalties away and got 7. Sustained penalties usually lead to tries.

Despite this, Saints could make only 3 breaks and score one try (and lets be honest, that should have been cleaned up by Ratchford and Brown). 

For a team that has scored more tries than any other team all year, to score only one try with all that dominance is a ringing endorsement of Wire's defence as well as highlighting how bad a showing it was for Saints.

It was a belter of a game, but I actually think there is a lot of improvement required by Wire for next week, whoever they play, as with a bit more composure it could have been a far more convincing win last night despite the extraordinary stats.

Quite. Posing any sort of threat in the first half is one obvious area we can improve in. We moved the ball wide maybe five times in the game and scored on three of those. There's a template.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Quite. Posing any sort of threat in the first half is one obvious area we can improve in. We moved the ball wide maybe five times in the game and scored on three of those. There's a template.

It's funny because we did try and move it a couple of times in the first half, but we were so slow with it, we posed no threat. We then went into our shell and started drop off passes to forwards for most of the first half.

The three tries we scored were beauties with some beautiful handling. 

I must admit, looking at the stats, I was stunned to see that according to the SL website, we are the 2nd best attack in the league, just behind Saints. I know Hull helped us there, but even so, it hasnt felt like that at times!

[Dave T]

41 minutes ago, Wollo Wollo Wayoo said:

Great game for the neutral.  Some real drama and see saw action.

Eventually, Saints cumulative mistakes pulled the team down even more than Ratchford's one man disaster show did for Wire.

Still think the winner will come from the 2nd semi though.

Another stat to add in, Saints made 7 errors to Wire's 11. 

How the hell did they lose that game!

 

[Dave T]

And one final point (maybe), I'd like to give a huge rap to Toby King. I'm not his biggest fan, and tbh he was a liability at the last game at Langtree Park - but I thought he was outstanding in defence against Percival (which lost us the first game). Brilliant effort from him.

[Desert Skipper]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I must admit, looking at the stats, I was stunned to see that according to the SL website, we are the 2nd best attack in the league, just behind Saints. I know Hull helped us there, but even so, it hasnt felt like that at times!

I think the reason we don’t stand out in attack is we are not spectacular.   We just stick to the basics and play to our own strengths without any showboating.   I’d love to have a bit of flair in the halves, and I’m surprised Roberts hasn’t taken the line on more often like he did in the NRL, but we do shift the ball well structurally and Roberts has a decent kicking game.

Despite the attacking stats, it’s Price’s non-panic defence that will be the key if we win at OT.   He’s not a tactician, he just asks the players to keep sticking to the basics and hope that Charnley and Lineham can finish the moves off in the corner.   The main thing we need to improve on from that first half last night though is quick play the balls for Clark.

[Rupert Prince]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

Interestingly if you listen to the commentators Saints were great, full of stars, the selection of roby at interchange was a masterstroke etc.

They did seem a touch confused at half time.

They did manage to get Thompson the mom though.

I think you make a good point. Commentstors make their own narrative before the start and are happy to twist the truth to that during the game.  It's certainly the same on Football.  Who was it in the ManU v Hammers match? He always does it... he is appalling.  He makes it up as he goes on.    So to me it's not just RL.

And re comment by Saintslass... shame some players have copped a few injuries, they have caught up with the rest of the league .

[Rupert Prince]

2 hours ago, Wolford6 said:

I didn't have a dog in the fight, neither did I watch the game, nor have I followed this thread.

However, this is what happens when the winner of a league is decided by a cup.

Its the winner of a playoff.  Just like the European Cup is the winner of an elite playoff (albeit it runs in the following season).    Our GF is analogous to that. But sadly our competition is much much smaller, and thus far shorter.

Despite the hype about finishing top in the Football Premiership,  the big prize, and the big money going with it, is finishing in top 4, and to a lesser extent top 6. 

The FA Cup had prestige and money, but it's the winning of it and the entry into Europe that is the big thing. 

Maybe... any extra place, 6th, could be added for the CC winner, or loser, or best semi loser, into the play offs.      Just an off the wall suggestion.

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

31 minutes ago, Dave T said:

And one final point (maybe), I'd like to give a huge rap to Toby King.

Could easily be given the oft used title of Most improved player in Super League this season.

[Angelic Cynic]

11 hours ago, Saintslass said:

We needed Theo Fages.  The coach has made the same mistakes in our big games: gone with four forwards on the bench, the game plan has been a mystery, no offloads, nobody on anybody's shoulder, barging up the middle.  Theo Fages has had this dynamic effect on the team when he has come on and we desperately needed that in the second half.  On top of that he tackles like a demon and has this habit of squirming under the big men, making life difficult.  Few out there for Saints made life difficult for Wire; some made it difficult for their team mates though.  I don't think our coach knows how to coach for knock out games.  Hopefully he will learn in the off season but I think knock out games could be his weakness.  Mind you it would have helped if our fullback hadn't gone missing yet again.

   Was Sean Long at the game? I din't notice him and I sometimes see him sat next to Holbrook.

   Sean Long is an admirer of Theo Fages.

[Barry Badrinath]

3 hours ago, Saintslass said:

It was a disappointing end to the season for us but I felt more gutted by losing the Challenge Cup semi final than last night and since the game I have learned that we lost Peyroux to injury, and Lomax played on with a compound fracture, something he wouldn't have needed to do had our coach put Fages on the bench of course.  We also had Makinson on one leg after the early ankle injury and Roby played injured.  That isn't good for a semi final and doesn't help the cause yet in spite of all that we lost by a converted try.

We won the LLS which we deserved because we were the best team in the comp over a gruelling 30 game season.  I celebrated that win as did many other fans.  Not only that but I thoroughly enjoyed watching us play this year up until the CC semi, after which we lost our mojo slightly.  But we scored some fabulous tries, played some wonderful rugby and were a joy to watch.  That makes me happy.

We have a noobie halfback in Richardson who may or may not grow into the role.  We had a fullback who decided he didn't like being in the UK after all and took his foot off the gas when he wanted to go home.  He scored and helped to score some great tries but I'm glad he's gone.  I want a fullback who will at least attempt to defend on our line otherwise we are always playing with 12 men in defence which is just unfair.

We also have some other debutants this season, one of whom has grown as the season has progressed: Regan Grace.  Then there are others, the forwards, who have a lot of promise and who will hopefully get the chance to grow next season.

Warrington played well.  We were not quite good enough.  That's the way of sport.  

Peyroux  came back on in the second  half

[Davo5]

1 minute ago, Barry Badrinath said:

Peyroux  came back on in the second  half

Yeah but was only 98% fit and that's why saints lost,honestly.

[Dave T]

Another final point.

Watching the highlights and I think it is clear that Richardson still has a lot to learn. Now I know on another day his dg's  would be celebrated, but tbh they pretty much kept Wire in it when Saints had dominant spells.

On the first he got suckered in a bit. Wire went for a drop goal on the back of a mistake so Ratch played what was in front of him, and missed. That seemed to put it in Richardson's head then and he wanted to be the big man, despite the fact that Saints had marched 80m up the field and had 3.5 minutes to get a score. 

On the second, fine he levelled the score, but with possession and time on your side, there was no urgent need for a Dr.

On the final one, great, they took the lead, but with 10 mins left, it was unlikely to be the winner. It once again left Wire not having to defend a last play close to their line.

Contrast the tactics and Wire went for tries more and were rewarded with 3. 

With 7 minutes to go and Wire attacking Saints, we didn't go for the 1 pointer, It is clear that Richardson would have done so.

I think he has let some of the plaudits go to his head tbh.  He has plenty to learn.

[glossop saint]

9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Another final point.

Watching the highlights and I think it is clear that Richardson still has a lot to learn. Now I know on another day his dg's  would be celebrated, but tbh they pretty much kept Wire in it when Saints had dominant spells.

On the first he got suckered in a bit. Wire went for a drop goal on the back of a mistake so Ratch played what was in front of him, and missed. That seemed to put it in Richardson's head then and he wanted to be the big man, despite the fact that Saints had marched 80m up the field and had 3.5 minutes to get a score. 

On the second, fine he levelled the score, but with possession and time on your side, there was no urgent need for a Dr.

On the final one, great, they took the lead, but with 10 mins left, it was unlikely to be the winner. It once again left Wire not having to defend a last play close to their line.

Contrast the tactics and Wire went for tries more and were rewarded with 3. 

With 7 minutes to go and Wire attacking Saints, we didn't go for the 1 pointer, It is clear that Richardson would have done so.

I think he has let some of the plaudits go to his head tbh.  He has plenty to learn.

I agree with a lot of this and said so at the time.  He wasn't the reason saints lost and I hope he learns from it and becomes a better player as a result. 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, glossop saint said:

I agree with a lot of this and said so at the time.  He wasn't the reason saints lost and I hope he learns from it and becomes a better player as a result. 

I think sometimes a player can get a bit caught up in their own head, we have seen Lee Briers do it before with drop goals, but I think the better tactics last night were to keep pushing for tries.

Strangely, in the first game at Saint I felt Wire lost because we kept letting Saints off the hook by taking the two, and it was almost the reversal of this last night.

[DavidM]

35 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Another final point.

Watching the highlights and I think it is clear that Richardson still has a lot to learn. Now I know on another day his dg's  would be celebrated, but tbh they pretty much kept Wire in it when Saints had dominant spells.

On the first he got suckered in a bit. Wire went for a drop goal on the back of a mistake so Ratch played what was in front of him, and missed. That seemed to put it in Richardson's head then and he wanted to be the big man, despite the fact that Saints had marched 80m up the field and had 3.5 minutes to get a score. 

On the second, fine he levelled the score, but with possession and time on your side, there was no urgent need for a Dr.

On the final one, great, they took the lead, but with 10 mins left, it was unlikely to be the winner. It once again left Wire not having to defend a last play close to their line.

Contrast the tactics and Wire went for tries more and were rewarded with 3. 

With 7 minutes to go and Wire attacking Saints, we didn't go for the 1 pointer, It is clear that Richardson would have done so.

I think he has let some of the plaudits go to his head tbh.  He has plenty to learn.

Totally agree . 3 drop goals was it ? It can be read as an admission that you’re not really backing yourself or have the mindset you had all season 

[CiderWire]

Aaaaand breathe. What a great advert for our game. I honestly thought Wire were going to implode, as they often do, in the second half but calm heads and a self belief installed by a passionate coach got them through. Unlucky Saints, you were by far the best team this season but I'm chuffed we made it to the GF........ bonus is, I'm back in the UK next week

[Loiner]

14 hours ago, Amber Avenger said:

I'm sure that nutter from Leeds that only posts once a year has set his alarm for Tuesday lunchtime, this might bring it forward a bit though. 

Well done Wire, top effort. 

Which nutter might that be ? Please enlighten us ?