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Any reason St Helens and Hull Fc don't have any second name?


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16 minutes ago, Tattersfieldtreiziste said:

Doncaster RLFC will always be the Dons, a title they share with MKDons and AberdeenFC.

On one of the occasions they went bust, 'rag' was inserted to differentiate as they became Dragons but worse was to  come when they became Doncaster Lakers after the nearby Lakeside shopping outlet. Not only is the name artificial  but so too is the lake.

 

I thought Doncaster Dragons would have been a better marketing tool and a way to get away from the being the Dons and all the negativity that goes with the name over the years, fresh name fresh start especially with the local amateur clubs.

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Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

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I always thought the most ridiculous was Wakefield's.  Why add a third word to an already excellent and historically relevant name?  Dropping 'Wildcats' was an excellent move!

We've been here before but here goes: Catchy names are easier to sell. You can't market a 'Wire' or a 'Northern' or a 'Glassblower' or a 'Roughyed' or a 'Loiner' to a new audience. Therefore it m

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17 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

A nickname ought to have some geographic and or historical significance.  But no matter what... the main point is to be a marketing tool.  Such things really are or ought to be important.   I mean as an analogy I suggest the point that regiments have flags, or 'colours'. On a more mundane level, companies have logos and sometimes have a 'tag line'. (anybody remember Makeson?) So the issue really is marketing.

Those reasons must have been the downfall of Mansfield Marksmen then.

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1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

A nickname ought to have some geographic and or historical significance.  But no matter what... the main point is to be a marketing tool.  Such things really are or ought to be important.   I mean as an analogy I suggest the point that regiments have flags, or 'colours'. On a more mundane level, companies have logos and sometimes have a 'tag line'. (anybody remember Makeson?) So the issue really is marketing.

Not at all. Look at many world famous American sports teams names have no connection to the Town or City. Look at SLs most successful teams all have a nickname or moniker. Coincidence? Marketing to a junior audience want their pic with a Bronco Bull or Rhino. Its what they love. Do you think a 7 year old gives a ###### about relevance to the area?

"Daddy daddy I dont want my picture taken with that Bull. Is anybody dressed up as a wool merchant from the 1800s daddy." Do me a favour.

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48 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

Not at all. Look at many world famous American sports teams names have no connection to the Town or City. Look at SLs most successful teams all have a nickname or moniker. Coincidence? Marketing to a junior audience want their pic with a Bronco Bull or Rhino. Its what they love. Do you think a 7 year old gives a ###### about relevance to the area?

"Daddy daddy I dont want my picture taken with that Bull. Is anybody dressed up as a wool merchant from the 1800s daddy." Do me a favour.

Indeed. Little kids have no concept of geography, but they can and do latch onto a colourful icon on a shirt or a cartoon mascot, making them a lifelong fan of a team long before they discover that team is nowhere near to where they are.

But perish the thought RFL copy the Americans. What do the Yanks know about sports marketing?

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Mansfield's 'Marksmen' wasn't just an exercise in alliteration, but a naming deal with Mansfield Brewery, makers of a lager called Marksman, ( in turn i think some kind of Robin Hood archery reference).

The fear some have around 'branded' sports teams is their portability and ability to move to a new city with a bigger market, as in NFL.

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As regards "Hull FC", for the umpteenth time on here, Hull were the first professional sports club in the city and so, were able to call themselves "Hull Football Club" as a business, hence "Hull FC".

That was in 1865 and Hull KR followed in 1888 with those latecomers Hull City in 1904.

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7 hours ago, Damien said:

I remember reading various articles at the time saying that it was and a couple of years later actually spoke to Peter Deakin at Bradford, Dave Swanson at Wigan the person over marketing at Leeds, whose name escapes me, quite extensively on what they had implemented and why as part of my dissertation. Peter Deakin was great and the Leeds person was great. Both full of great ideas and plans and it was fairly obvious why those clubs had the success with the name change and associated marketing that they had. I cant say I was that impressed with Dave Swanson or what Wigan were doing and it perhaps shows that it was never embraced there in the same way.

I'd love to know what Leeds claimed they were doing to bed the name down. It was a 100% Ronnie the Rhino strategy, beyond that it just happened - and they were lucky that it coincided with three seasons of improving fortunes which helped rebuild crowds.

Personally I still dislike the Rhinos name intensely and have never and probably will never use it.

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6 hours ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

True, but 'Holy' or 'Unholy'!

Wholly.

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17 minutes ago, M j M said:

I'd love to know what Leeds claimed they were doing to bed the name down. It was a 100% Ronnie the Rhino strategy, beyond that it just happened - and they were lucky that it coincided with three seasons of improving fortunes which helped rebuild crowds.

Personally I still dislike the Rhinos name intensely and have never and probably will never use it.

It wasn't just the name change it was the entire marketing side. I lived about 100 yards from Headingley for 4 years and knew a number of the Rhino's staff, one of my best mates actually knew the guy who did Ronnie the Rhino quite well. Coming from Wigan I actually found the stuff they where doing leaps and bounds above what Wigan were doing at that time. As you say it may well have been something of a perfect storm where everything was falling into place at just the right time, marketing and name changes are certainly much easier in that environment. It was 20 odd years ago now so I cant remember the specifics that much I'm afraid. It did feel like they fully embraced that though where as I never got that impression from some of the other clubs I spoke to.

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On 30/04/2020 at 21:53, M j M said:

A better question is why half the teams in the league do have second names when they barely bother to do anything with them apart from employ someone in a mascot costume. It was a fad which misunderstood what made 'Bulls' and 'Cougars' successful and has left an ugly scar on the names of a host of our most famous team.

Presumably the Rhinos are the exception that proves the rule? 

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40 minutes ago, John Rhino said:

Presumably the Rhinos are the exception that proves the rule? 

I don't think the Leeds club would have been any more or less successful in terms of trophies, crowds or profitability had they not adopted the Rhinos name.

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Hull did as has been mansplained... and dumped it amidst the altruistic gesture of merging with Gateshead taking an unfeasibly large cheque and their best players... along with a lenient version of the overseas quota rules.

 

St Helens does have a second name.... it’s Helens. 

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8 hours ago, MADREDNIGE said:

I can remember Fev were gunna be called The Pirates which  wasn't well received but there was plenty of merchandise with the Pirate logo on them. 

Wasn’t that more a play on ‘Rovers’ rather than a desire to change the name? I know their badge of the early 2000’s was along that theme and they had a pirate mascot until the last 5 years or so when it was replaced by the pit pony. 

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1 hour ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Wasn’t that more a play on ‘Rovers’ rather than a desire to change the name? I know their badge of the early 2000’s was along that theme and they had a pirate mascot until the last 5 years or so when it was replaced by the pit pony. 

The Board, in the early years of Summer Rugby were quite keen to go with Pirates instead of Rovers, but there was opposition from the fans as you would expect. So the compromise was using a Pirate as a logo and Mascot.

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Fair point those talking about mascots, marketing tactics and wanting to appeal to kids etc.  I think you can still have all the necessary mascots, gimmicks and whatever else you want, without having to rename an entire club though.

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On 01/05/2020 at 18:04, Mumby Magic said:

Not at all. Look at many world famous American sports teams names have no connection to the Town or City. Look at SLs most successful teams all have a nickname or moniker. Coincidence? Marketing to a junior audience want their pic with a Bronco Bull or Rhino. Its what they love. Do you think a 7 year old gives a ###### about relevance to the area?

"Daddy daddy I dont want my picture taken with that Bull. Is anybody dressed up as a wool merchant from the 1800s daddy." Do me a favour.

Don't i say its a marketing tool?

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On 01/05/2020 at 21:56, Damien said:

It wasn't just the name change it was the entire marketing side. I lived about 100 yards from Headingley for 4 years and knew a number of the Rhino's staff, one of my best mates actually knew the guy who did Ronnie the Rhino quite well. Coming from Wigan I actually found the stuff they where doing leaps and bounds above what Wigan were doing at that time. As you say it may well have been something of a perfect storm where everything was falling into place at just the right time, marketing and name changes are certainly much easier in that environment. It was 20 odd years ago now so I cant remember the specifics that much I'm afraid. It did feel like they fully embraced that though where as I never got that impression from some of the other clubs I spoke to.

They were quite bold in that their first shirt after rebounding had RHINOS  across the chest instead of a traditional shirt sponsor

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