Now is the time to bring back franchising

[The Daddy]

We are at a phase in the sport where several Championship clubs are applying to SL via a franchising process. Also the NRL have shown interest in buying into Super League along with rumoured interest from private equity firms. My take is that it has given people in the sport pause for thought, especially people actually running clubs about what the standards must be for being a club that operates in SL. 

I know this debate has been had many times before but I'm adamant that given the regional nature of the sport, the standards in place for reaching SL just simply cannot be through promotion/relegation. In my view there are several clubs in SL that do not add commercial value to the competition and are living mainly off TV deal money just to survive, these type of clubs limit the potential of the sport because they are regional, local entities and their long term potential as a business and to attract new viewers to RL is very limited.

I do think that if the NRL buy in is to be completed or any other entity buys into the sport they will want franchising as a provision of any deal, so it's coming anyway and the current round of franchising has really got people thinking about what we should expect from a top level club.

The main reason for going back to franchising is, there are now several clubs outside the competition that offer greater immediate or long term value to the sports overall health, while the situation with the current set of clubs isn't good. 

Toulouse, London, Newcastle, York and Bradford offer greater commercial value than many SL clubs and need to be given a shot for varying reasons, obviously with franchising if they fail to add value they can be replaced. But now is a good time to ask is promotion/relegation really working in the interests of our sport

 

[Man of Kent]

I believe we should be building where rugby league is actually played. Players are all too rarely mentioned in expansion threads, but no players, no rugby league.

That’s not just the M62 corridor but also SW France, London and Newcastle/NE England, and if it was up to me that’s where expansion would be focused in the medium term. 

I can see the merits of a licensed Super League of the current 11 plus Bradford, London, Toulouse, York and Newcastle.

If the NRL does take over Super League then it wouldn’t be hard to imagine a 16-team comp, 25 rounds (12 home & away + Magic) with top 8 playoffs. No P&R and a single Championship division beneath. There could be review points to replace a failing club from SL if necessary.

[Scubby]

We can have P&R and franchising. We need to create an elite standard ranking based on all the usual stuff that is important to franchising. If it is out of 100 then any club that is over 75/100 is eligible to play in the top flight and be eligible to be promoted to the top flight. Those that fall below are essentially automatically put in the relegation place in the following year and replaced by the promoted 75/100 club from the championship. If that is 2 clubs then 2 clubs go down. It would soon sort out the ###### stunts pulled by a number of hand to mouth clubs and create an open and transparent ranking score for all.

[Pulga]

P&R is holding the game back in a big way.

[Man of Kent]

1 minute ago, Pulga said:

P&R is holding the game back in a big way.

It does.

Take Leigh Centurions. I like Leigh but they’ll never be the biggest club in their own backyard, never mind anywhere else.

I’m sure even the staunchest Leyther wouldn’t want them to hold back rugby league in this country.

[Harry Stottle]

26 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

We are at a phase in the sport where several Championship clubs are applying to SL via a franchising process. Also the NRL have shown interest in buying into Super League along with rumoured interest from private equity firms. My take is that it has given people in the sport pause for thought, especially people actually running clubs about what the standards must be for being a club that operates in SL. 

I know this debate has been had many times before but I'm adamant that given the regional nature of the sport, the standards in place for reaching SL just simply cannot be through promotion/relegation. In my view there are several clubs in SL that do not add commercial value to the competition and are living mainly off TV deal money just to survive, these type of clubs limit the potential of the sport because they are regional, local entities and their long term potential as a business and to attract new viewers to RL is very limited.

I do think that if the NRL buy in is to be completed or any other entity buys into the sport they will want franchising as a provision of any deal, so it's coming anyway and the current round of franchising has really got people thinking about what we should expect from a top level club.

The main reason for going back to franchising is, there are now several clubs outside the competition that offer greater immediate or long term value to the sports overall health, while the situation with the current set of clubs isn't good. 

Toulouse, London, Newcastle, York and Bradford offer greater commercial value than many SL clubs and need to be given a shot for varying reasons, obviously with franchising if they fail to add value they can be replaced. But now is a good time to ask is promotion/relegation really working in the interests of our sport

 

 

10 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I believe we should be building where rugby league is actually played. Players are all too rarely mentioned in expansion threads, but no players, no rugby league.

That’s not just the M62 corridor but also SW France, London and Newcastle/NE England, and if it was up to me that’s where expansion would be focused in the medium term. 

I can see the merits of a licensed Super League of the current 11 plus Bradford, London, Toulouse, York and Newcastle.

If the NRL does take over Super League then it wouldn’t be hard to imagine a 16-team comp, 25 rounds (12 home & away + Magic) with top 8 playoffs. No P&R and a single Championship division beneath. There could be review points to replace a failing club from SL if necessary.

And you guy's say that fans of some clubs in the North are insular in their thinking, Jaysus wept.

Just how long is this failing argument that London has so much potential going to kept rolled out.

[Eddie]

2 minutes ago, Pulga said:

P&R is holding the game back in a big way.

In what way mate? I have a lot of time for what you have to say but I don’t get it at all when people say that. P&R is what British league systems are all about. 

[Rupert Prince]

14 or 16 is fine, where is the money to come from.  Do you abolish the Cap?  Limit the income to players and the best will take the money to the NRL.  

One only sees the interest about Bevan French to see that from a fan and attendance point of view we need star players. 

The point about a Cap is that it limits the wealthy clubs, thus there ought to be competition.  This is all very well in theory, but if the cap levels clubs then that inevitably would mean a club could get relegated even if othetwise sound.  But once relagated its good players disappear.

The only way a Cap can work is if there is no relegation.  Only then can clubs be free to pause and regroup as the ebb and flow of competitiveness works it's way through.  If we have true P&R, the survival of the fittest, then spend away ... effectively as the football industry do ... and let the devil take the hindmost as the dregs of the division fight it out.

NRL have a Cap, no relegation, and we see more teams in the Grand Final.

[Oxford]

18 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

I have done this to death before.

[Wire quin]

Let's see what the future sponsorship/NRL buy out/Sky money is before we make any long term decisions to shape the future.

[sweaty craiq]

You don’t grow by exclusion or killing the bigger non SL clubs by illlogical emotions. 
We have a small elite of Leeds Hull Wire Saints and Wigan. We have Catalans  and Cas stuck below one with potential to grow the other at its peak. We have Wakey HKR Hudds and Salford that are no better or bigger than the Championship wannabees, and it would be interesting to see them after 20 years outside SL.

Bradford Fev Leigh London Toulouse and Widnes could replace the bottom 6 in SL and in 2 years of franchising would be as big.

I am into FT licensing by inclusion with min spends and standards. Clear goals of expansion, get TW back get a third French club get Newcastle in the structure, look to expand the set up as clubs show they can afford and contribute

Simply let’s create a true SUPER LEAGUE, and a FT structure below that allows transition on circumstance without a death penalty, we are too small to exclude

[Pulga]

Just now, Eddie said:

In what way mate? I have a lot of time for what you have to say but I don’t get it at all when people say that. P&R is what British league systems are all about. 

Would you sponsor a team that could be relegated next year? Would you pay for the TV rights of a competition that could lose a team with a large audience next year? Would you sign for a club that could be relegated next year?

There is no certainty to bank on. 

Teams need to be there on commercial viability. Not being relegated isn't enough. It's a race to the (second) bottom.

 

 

 

[sweaty craiq]

6 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

It does.

Take Leigh Centurions. I like Leigh but they’ll never be the biggest club in their own backyard, never mind anywhere else.

I’m sure even the staunchest Leyther wouldn’t want them to hold back rugby league in this country.

Why would a financial strong club with fantastic facilities hold back RL

[sweaty craiq]

6 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

14 or 16 is fine, where is the money to come from.  Do you abolish the Cap?  Limit the income to players and the best will take the money to the NRL.  

One only sees the interest about Bevan French to see that from a fan and attendance point of view we need star players. 

The point about a Cap is that it limits the wealthy clubs, thus there ought to be competition.  This is all very well in theory, but if the cap levels clubs then that inevitably would mean a club could get relegated even if othetwise sound.  But once relagated its good players disappear.

The only way a Cap can work is if there is no relegation.  Only then can clubs be free to pause and regroup as the ebb and flow of competitiveness works it's way through.  If we have true P&R, the survival of the fittest, then spend away ... effectively as the football industry do ... and let the devil take the hindmost as the dregs of the division fight it out.

NRL have a Cap, no relegation, and we see more teams in the Grand Final.

Are you suggesting a full application from all clubs to be decided by an independent panel? In that process it would be very likely Cas Wakey HKR Salford would be out of SL on facilities and finance

[The Daddy]

3 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Are you suggesting a full application from all clubs to be decided by an independent panel? In that process it would be very likely Cas Wakey HKR Salford would be out of SL on facilities and finance

If it's got to be, then it's got to be 

[yipyee]

19 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

And you guy's say that fans of some clubs in the North are insular in their thinking, Jaysus wept.

Just how long is this failing argument that London has so much potential going to kept rolled out.

London does have potential, just because they are not rwalising the potential doesnt mean its not there

[yipyee]

9 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Are you suggesting a full application from all clubs to be decided by an independent panel? In that process it would be very likely Cas Wakey HKR Salford would be out of SL on facilities and finance

I agree get them out.

They are holding the gameback.

They have hqd long enough to get their houses in order

[PEANUT HEAD]

53 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

We are at a phase in the sport where several Championship clubs are applying to SL via a franchising process. Also the NRL have shown interest in buying into Super League along with rumoured interest from private equity firms. My take is that it has given people in the sport pause for thought, especially people actually running clubs about what the standards must be for being a club that operates in SL. 

I know this debate has been had many times before but I'm adamant that given the regional nature of the sport, the standards in place for reaching SL just simply cannot be through promotion/relegation. In my view there are several clubs in SL that do not add commercial value to the competition and are living mainly off TV deal money just to survive, these type of clubs limit the potential of the sport because they are regional, local entities and their long term potential as a business and to attract new viewers to RL is very limited.

I do think that if the NRL buy in is to be completed or any other entity buys into the sport they will want franchising as a provision of any deal, so it's coming anyway and the current round of franchising has really got people thinking about what we should expect from a top level club.

The main reason for going back to franchising is, there are now several clubs outside the competition that offer greater immediate or long term value to the sports overall health, while the situation with the current set of clubs isn't good. 

Toulouse, London, Newcastle, York and Bradford offer greater commercial value than many SL clubs and need to be given a shot for varying reasons, obviously with franchising if they fail to add value they can be replaced. But now is a good time to ask is promotion/relegation really working in the interests of our sport

 

Isn't that what they are doing with the 12th place.

[The Daddy]

1 minute ago, PEANUT HEAD said:

Isn't that what they are doing with the 12th place.

They need to do it with the 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th places 

[Robin Evans]

Another thread on licencing. Wow.

[Snowys Backside]

If they bring back licencing now we will have 4 new teams in SL next year, never mind 1 !  

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

33 minutes ago, Pulga said:

Would you sponsor a team that could be relegated next year? Would you pay for the TV rights of a competition that could lose a team with a large audience next year? Would you sign for a club that could be relegated next year?

There is no certainty to bank on. 

Teams need to be there on commercial viability. Not being relegated isn't enough. It's a race to the (second) bottom.

 

 

 

If any of that were true quite a few teams in SL would currently have no sponsors, no players and there wouldn't have been a Sky deal.

[Scotchy1]

3 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

If any of that were true quite a few teams in SL would currently have no sponsors, no players and there wouldn't have been a Sky deal.

Or that risk is built in to the deals we do have. 

 

[Southerner]

Franchising allows clubs to grow and plan for the future. Our sport is unlike soccer where clubs can more easily deal with the financial ramifications of relegation.

If we want our sport to grow then we need our clubs to grow. 

We’re not going to attract a significantly larger TV deal until we start growing. 

[Smudger06]

42 minutes ago, Wire quin said:

Let's see what the future sponsorship/NRL buy out/Sky money is before we make any long term decisions to shape the future.

Seems that will be spent on settling litigation