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So IF Catalans win the GF, what will be the after effect?


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1 minute ago, Mumby Magic said:

Will it be a Sheffield 98 or even a London 99 with regards to lost opportunities. Can they capitalise on it? Will they consistently get 5 figure crowds? 

If Toulouse join them,  huge for the sport in France.   If just Dragons win, probably another game in Barcelona and thats it.

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9 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

If Toulouse join them,  huge for the sport in France.   If just Dragons win, probably another game in Barcelona and thats it.

Tend to agree. Catalans winning the GF isn’t a gamechanger and promotion of Toulouse could have more profound impact, eg French TV and other media coverage, attendances, player development. 

Also, I really want to do a Super League road trip from/ending in Toulouse & Perpignan (with Carcassonne in between)!

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15 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

If Toulouse join them,  huge for the sport in France.   If just Dragons win, probably another game in Barcelona and thats it.

I think Toulouse winning their Grand Final will be bigger for French Rugby League than Catalans winning their Grand Final. Neither are a magic bullet but both would certainly give the sport a boost both in the regions and across the country. 

Is there a World Club Challenge game due to take place in 2022? It’d be great to have Penrith play in Perpignan, or even better if they can get another game at the Nou Camp and hold it there. 

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8 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Tend to agree. Catalans winning the GF isn’t a gamechanger and promotion of Toulouse could have more profound impact, eg French TV and other media coverage, attendances, player development. 

Also, I really want to do a Super League road trip from/ending in Toulouse & Perpignan (with Carcassonne in between)!

Biggest impact could be end of stupid restructure to ten teams in SL and regular Eng vs France game . Once SL teams see a game every week in France plus three massive games no way the big clubs are going to dump that to massively overpay Championship clubs.  

One home game a week for French TV,  plus away feed,  plus Challenge Cup games,  plus three massive all French games and England vs France every season?  Even Elstone could get a TV deal for that in France.  

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2 hours ago, Gav Wilson said:

I hope they get to take another game to the Nou Camp! 

If Toulouse are there next year why not them.

"It involves matters much greater than drafting the new rules...the original and existing games have their own powerful appeal to their players and public and have the sentiments which history inspires"  - Harold 'Jersey' Flegg 1933

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."  - Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

Si tu( Remi Casty) devais envoyer un fax au Président Guasch? " Un grand bravo pour ce que vous avez fait,et merci de m 'avoir embarqué dans cette aventure"

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May sound a daft comparison, but reminds me sightly of Hull in 2006.

FC made the Grand Final (also against Saints) on the back of a recent CC win. KR won the (then) National League 1 to gain promotion.

The interest in Hull grew substantially over the next few years. FC's crowds rose from 10k to 14k on average and never dipped below 12k for a number of years. Hull KR went through a renaissance, attracted some quality players, invested in their ground and obviously crowds grew too.

I can see something similar happening in the South of France.

However, one other similar thing I can see happening is the initial harm it could do to Catalans' playing strength. A lot of the young French players will see Toulouse as another option and so their strength in depth will weaken. Even the odd established player could venture over and that may have a bigger impact - think Paul Cooke to Rovers and the damage that did to FC (took us nearly a decade to recover from the half back issues!).

Overall though, can only be positive for the game there.

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3 hours ago, Mumby Magic said:

Will it be a Sheffield 98 or even a London 99 with regards to lost opportunities. Can they capitalise on it? Will they consistently get 5 figure crowds? 

I think they get good crowds already and are now regarded as in the top 6 SL clubs (and hold the SL record crowd dont forget).

The main benefits will be to French RL, French TV deals and the French national team.

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5 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:
5 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

 

I think Toulouse winning their Grand Final will be bigger for French Rugby League than Catalans winning their Grand Final.

 

I agree !

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6 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:
6 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

I think Toulouse winning their Grand Final will be bigger for French Rugby League than Catalans winning their Grand Final.

 

I agree !

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If Catalans win the GF there will be a boost locally in crowds and sponsors of course. If Penrith decide to go to France for the WCC that could be pretty huge.

However, if Catalans win the GF and Toulouse get promoted - it could be an absolute game changer. 

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We need to stop hoping for a silver bullet. People talk about things like this being the biggest thing to happen in RL history. It isn't. But it is a positive that can help to move the dial. There is nothing that is onstabtky going to transform the game, we just need to keep creating these positives, and then not blowing them, and then creating more and more, and capitalising on those. 

In terms of the positives specifically on this one, a successful Catalans should be looking to drive player development, sponsorship increases, tv interest, media coverage etc. which all then help the status of the game in France and hopefully support the World Cup chances. 

In terms of for SL, it can help to change some views about the game, we are nowhere near as insular as many (inside and outside the game) would have us believe and this supports that view. 

I hope they win, and I hope Toulouse make SL and I hope we have the confidence to stick to 12 teams ongoing. That feels like progress from 25 years ago. 

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Well just appearing in the Final has some effect.

It should increase interest, support, sponsorship, participation and media exposure in the short term.

It make the Grand Final seem an European contest rather than purely a Pennine one.

A victory would not be a permanent game changer, but an opportunity for-

Expansion of French clubs in the Summer competition.

Stabilisation of the French winter league. 

An annual France-England international match (Bastille Day or week.)

Greater Gallic presence within the senior officialdom. "Bonsoir Monsieur Caddick"

A TV/media deal.

More competitive National side

Bi lingual officialdom.

Magic en France.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

May sound a daft comparison, but reminds me sightly of Hull in 2006.

FC made the Grand Final (also against Saints) on the back of a recent CC win. KR won the (then) National League 1 to gain promotion.

The interest in Hull grew substantially over the next few years. FC's crowds rose from 10k to 14k on average and never dipped below 12k for a number of years. Hull KR went through a renaissance, attracted some quality players, invested in their ground and obviously crowds grew too.

I can see something similar happening in the South of France.

However, one other similar thing I can see happening is the initial harm it could do to Catalans' playing strength. A lot of the young French players will see Toulouse as another option and so their strength in depth will weaken. Even the odd established player could venture over and that may have a bigger impact - think Paul Cooke to Rovers and the damage that did to FC (took us nearly a decade to recover from the half back issues!).

Overall though, can only be positive for the game there.

Thanks for such a thoughtful and perceptive post, Wellsy.  The comparison with Hull 15 years ago had not occurred to me, but sounds persuasive and your account of what happened then - and subsequently - is very interesting.

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6 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

May sound a daft comparison, but reminds me sightly of Hull in 2006.

FC made the Grand Final (also against Saints) on the back of a recent CC win. KR won the (then) National League 1 to gain promotion.

The interest in Hull grew substantially over the next few years. FC's crowds rose from 10k to 14k on average and never dipped below 12k for a number of years. Hull KR went through a renaissance, attracted some quality players, invested in their ground and obviously crowds grew too.

I can see something similar happening in the South of France.

However, one other similar thing I can see happening is the initial harm it could do to Catalans' playing strength. A lot of the young French players will see Toulouse as another option and so their strength in depth will weaken. Even the odd established player could venture over and that may have a bigger impact - think Paul Cooke to Rovers and the damage that did to FC (took us nearly a decade to recover from the half back issues!).

Overall though, can only be positive for the game there.

It was a proper buzz to watch the Hull derbies back then - and the Paul Cooke twist in the tale! Mad. Looked like sell out crowds at both FC and KR home games. I too hope this would be the case for French RL with both Catalans and Toulouse in SL

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8 hours ago, Mumby Magic said:

Will it be a Sheffield 98 or even a London 99 with regards to lost opportunities. Can they capitalise on it? Will they consistently get 5 figure crowds? 

Certainly more younger people taking up the game

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I've been doing a series on French RL at my blog and learning along the way. While the sport has suffered greatly at the hands of RU apologists, there has been so many destructive actions from within. Like all opportunities, there needs to be shrewd governance to take full advantage of it. Hopefully that's now in place. 

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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The presence of two top Teams in the Super League will also likely help in shifting perceptions about other cities as viable. 

There is evidently alot of money to be found in France as is seen at times in Union. Alot of this money is not from rusted on "union" guys but businessmen who want the prestige of being an owner or key figure. 

In my opinion, the best thing Super League and the RFL could do is change the way teams in France / Europe are in. If English Rugby League fans / clubs want a viable income source in France etc. France needs more teams not less to produce such. 

I would give them four spots with criteria and give them an annual participation fee or financial agreement that goes into the Super League. French TV contracts in regard to Super League in Europe then actually become the domain of the French teams and FRL. 

 

Edited by Izmir Zaferi
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9 hours ago, bratman said:

I think they already do

 

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There's only one figure on there that is 5-figures, and I'm pretty certain that was boosted massively by the Barcelona game. I wouldn't call that consistently 5-figures just yet.

 

Out of interest, does anyone know when the stadium project there will be completed? They were meant to be rebuilding the stand opposite the camera to match the other 2 stands weren't they? It's been over a decade since anything was done there.

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5 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

There's only one figure on there that is 5-figures, and I'm pretty certain that was boosted massively by the Barcelona game. I wouldn't call that consistently 5-figures just yet.

10k average is good enough for me!

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There is far more upside for the game if Catalans win, than if they lose. We will get more spectators watching the game. Their already good crowds would grow again, while Saints’ so so crowds won’t get any bigger. I can’t see Penrith travelling given that they are pure “there is no such thing as rugby league, there’s only NRL”, which is a shame for the game. But maybe South’s could be persuaded? 

A win for Toulouse would be far more significant, though, for the reasons already covered. I will then get myself down to William Hill and put a pony on the Brev for Man of Steel next year. 

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