Where has the Fun gone?

[paulwalker71]

1 hour ago, Chris22 said:

The point has been made earlier, but aside from the Magic Weekend, I cannot think of a double header (or more) that has ever worked. I think we should be moving away from women's matches being warm up events and should now be seen, in their own right.

Some occasions lend themselves to an 'event' feel and others don't. Last night's match feels aimed at the wrong audience to me. With a clued-up RL crowd like in Warrington, the crowd knows that the 'All Stars' lacks authenticity. A crowd in Leigh would know a test match against France will be a walkover.

'England' is a brand that anyone in the country can get behind, it would appeal to an 'event-going' crowd in a way that a domestic match can never. England must play more outside of the heartlands in my view. This year especially in a World Cup year, to build awareness. Last night felt like a missed opportunity.

With a 10,000 crowd in Warrington, I honestly think we could beat that in London, Coventry, Bristol, Newcastle, maybe even Sheffield. And then you could have had 'meet and greet' sessions with England players (non-playing or recently retired), photo opportunities with the World Cup, chances to buy or win tickets for the tournament.

You make a good point. The game really should have been taken to an area that's being used in the World Cup - and I don't mean Warrington or Leigh.

We've got a game in my (new) area - at the Riverside Stadium in Middlesborough. Not that you'd know it. Would it have been better to have the game yesterday at the Riverside - or perhaps a smaller stadium on Teesside. Flood the place with tickets for schools and get a completely new audience who - as you right say - would not have had that cynicism about the CNAS or the makeup of the England team.

I guess like everything it comes down to money

But would 15,000 kids and families in the Riverside have been worth investing in World Cup year to publicise and sell Tonga vs Cook Islands? As it is I've see no publiciy whatever

 

 

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I don't disagree with the point you are making here, but sometimes we should just be able to sell an RL game without it being at a tourist destination. We really should be slick enough to sell 15k tickets for an England game in an RL town surrounded by a handful of other RL towns. 

I have made this point with things like moving the Challenge Cup final about too. I think there is too much emphasis on thinking an event is simply a ###### up in a new location for fans. Yes location and stadium does absolutely matter but there are an awful lot of core failings that need to be fixed regardless of location.

[daz39]

3 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

You make a good point. The game really should have been taken to an area that's being used in the World Cup - and I don't mean Warrington or Leigh.

We've got a game in my (new) area - at the Riverside Stadium in Middlesborough. Not that you'd know it. Would it have been better to have the game yesterday at the Riverside - or perhaps a smaller stadium on Teesside. Flood the place with tickets for schools and get a completely new audience who - as you right say - would not have had that cynicism about the CNAS or the makeup of the England team.

I guess like everything it comes down to money

But would 15,000 kids and families in the Riverside have been worth investing in World Cup year to publicise and sell Tonga vs Cook Islands? As it is I've see no publiciy whatever

 

 

Ys it probably would have but as with most RL stuff it's always aimed at existing customers/fans rather than new ones.

I strongly believe that taking games to new audiences can only encourage new fans, 7,000 current RL fans in Warrington who will go regardless could have been 7,000 new RL fans in Teeside/North Yorkshire or even Nottinghamshire/Derbyshire area.

It's a safety first strategy which will forever hold the game back.

[Dave T]

8 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Women's RL taps into new audiences and needs to be treated with respect and different strategies Playing them in places people would like to make a day of it (but still within access of many clubs) probably helps in many ways. Fun right?

I haven't started my third thread moaning today, about double headers

My wife was really disappointed with the way the women's match was no more than a starter for the men's game... 

[Oxford]

9 minutes ago, daz39 said:

Although i'd love to see it become i but why does a Rugby League match need to be an 'event'?

Surely RL events as such need to be but why would a regular league match have to be? people have always and will probably always go to watch the match, there are thousands of people who are happy to turn up once a fortnight, watch their team then go home, they will do this 13/14 times a year.

I don't get the obsession or fixation with wanting or needing EVERY game of Rugby League to be a big social event, obviously i'd be happy if they were more to game days but surely the big games and the showpieces should be the Events and not the run of the mill league ones?

The obsession or fixation is with marketing, in this sense a product that looks the business.

Knowing that RL is TGG makes us poor candidates for knowing, seeing or selling this.

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Oxford

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I haven't started my third thread moaning today, about double headers

My wife was really disappointed with the way the women's match was no more than a starter for the men's game... 

If we are talking about fun and events then purely from that angle then its not many people's idea of fun to sit there for 4 hours to watch 2 RL games. Just piling more on isn't creating an event.

That is even before any discussion about undermining the women's game.

[Davo5]

3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Which game?

Wigan Athletic V Accrrington Stanley 1958.

[glossop saint]

I agree with the idea about taking this game in particular but also any international (especially those that are likely to be one sided in England's favour) to none traditional areas. 6k watching in Bristol or Coventry or Newcastle would be more productive than 6k watching in Warrington.

I would also think that you could get more than in the heartlands as well. Look at some of the attitudes on this forum. That is likely mirrored in the heartlands towns. However playing England vs 'The All Stars' in somewhere that wouldn't accuse the all stars of being a 3rd choice team or only made up to give England a game is more likely to create a sense of excitement, especially when combined with a good PR campaign of interviewing the CNAS coach on local radio/TV in the weeks before etc.

How many went to the 2013 WC game in Bristol which was such a success. Surely they would at least consider going again to see the national team, to the general public that is the highest standard and biggest pull. We RL fans might know/moan about the ineptitude of the RFL and England team but to most people England themselves are a huge draw.

[daz39]

13 minutes ago, glossop saint said:

I agree with the idea about taking this game in particular but also any international (especially those that are likely to be one sided in England's favour) to none traditional areas. 6k watching in Bristol or Coventry or Newcastle would be more productive than 6k watching in Warrington.

I would also think that you could get more than in the heartlands as well. Look at some of the attitudes on this forum. That is likely mirrored in the heartlands towns. However playing England vs 'The All Stars' in somewhere that wouldn't accuse the all stars of being a 3rd choice team or only made up to give England a game is more likely to create a sense of excitement, especially when combined with a good PR campaign of interviewing the CNAS coach on local radio/TV in the weeks before etc.

How many went to the 2013 WC game in Bristol which was such a success. Surely they would at least consider going again to see the national team, to the general public that is the highest standard and biggest pull. We RL fans might know/moan about the ineptitude of the RFL and England team but to most people England themselves are a huge draw.

Absolutely correct, to non RL fans the idea of an England national team playing in your local town/area could be a pull in itself to families/general sports fan. The element of intrigue would surely also play a part, why not try somewhere like Bristol again, yes it RU territory but surely and England side playing rugby there could be a pull.

Personally i like the idea of Middlesbrough but also i think the East Midlands area could be worth a crack - Nottingham, Derby, Leicester etc.

Problem is we probably won't try these places simply because of the criticism it'll receive from Bob in Castleford or George in Leigh etc who will moan it's not a hotbed of rl and a stupid decision rather than encouraging the game to try things.

I'd also like to see England play Scotland in Glasgow or Edinburgh or Ireland in Dublin or Belfast, something away from the usual places etc and try and get some interest in other cities, again the pull of their national team playing England may just be a wise move.

Edited June 19, 2022 by daz39

[redjonn]

Whilst agreeing that clubs should strive to improve the overall match day experience I just don't see about pepping up non rugby activity during a game. OK before and at half time but how do you pep up fun for those whom have probably been taken with no real interest in the game.  I still remember the Leeds NZ game pre world cup in which the players engaged with the youngsters post game and the great impact that had on those youngsters all staying behind to have photos taken with players... Sonny Bill being a great example staying for what seemed up to an hour post game.

If you buy into one side or another and involve them in cheering on their selected side, getting engaged in the crowd support and singing together with the big hands and try cards then I don't see how you achieve other fun aspects outside of the game on the pitch during the game on the pitch. Maybe cheer leaders to encourage the youngsters and their parents to engage with the crowd maybe and the players making great efforts to engage with youngsters post game.

Yep I can see things that can done done pre, half time and post game but unless you change the format of the game how do you achieve it.   Of course focus on the star players and improve the entertainment on the game but even then youngsters will get bored anyway unless engaged with the crowd.

[Superb Chops]

3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

My last game was Wigan Athletic beating Man City in the Cup about 4 years ago , previous to that was Wigan Athletic beating Man City in the FA cup final at Wembley 9 years ago 

As a Latics and Wigan RL supporter, I would buy Gubrats a football season ticket if I wasn’t such a big tightwad. City’s owner is, however, more likely to spend more keeping Mr G away from future clashes.

In respect of the original question, I don’t know a proper answer but I get the sentiment and guess the sport’s lack of monumental events, progression and heroes is at the heart of my dwindling love affair for RL.

It could also be due to me turning 50.

Excellent subject OP. I sincerely hope there’s a conclusion within reach.

[redjonn]

1 hour ago, Chris22 said:

I would quite like to see the women's World Cup Final. But there's no way I'll be sitting for 5+ hours at Old Trafford in November.

I'd suggest you could get more people watching in person as its own event. But like you say, cost is an issue.

Not so sure cost is an issue, assuming you mean cost to fans.

Surely the women's could be at an affordable price (i.e. less then men's), plus could include a combination cost if it was on different days and within same city or not far to travel between the two,

Surely the RL/WC would be looking "in the main" for a different demographic to attend and grow an interest, even better if interest goes across both men and women's game. 

It does seem wrong to always feel as if we have to combine the women's with the main. It tells me we have no confidence in the women's game growing significantly.

[GUBRATS]

15 minutes ago, Superb Chops said:

As a Latics and Wigan RL supporter, I would buy Gubrats a football season ticket if I wasn’t such a big tightwad. City’s owner is, however, more likely to spend more keeping Mr G away from future clashes.

In respect of the original question, I don’t know a proper answer but I get the sentiment and guess the sport’s lack of monumental events, progression and heroes is at the heart of my dwindling love affair for RL.

It could also be due to me turning 50.

Excellent subject OP. I sincerely hope there’s a conclusion within reach.

Son is a Latics season ticket holder as are 2 others in our cul de sac , one older than me , one a teenager , my first game at Springfield park being an FA cup replay against Shrewsbury Town in 1975 , I've probably only watched them a dozen times since 

[GUBRATS]

15 minutes ago, redjonn said:

Not so sure cost is an issue, assuming you mean cost to fans.

Surely the women's could be at an affordable price (i.e. less then men's), plus could include a combination cost if it was on different days and within same city or not far to travel between the two,

Surely the RL/WC would be looking "in the main" for a different demographic to attend and grow an interest, even better if interest goes across both men and women's game. 

It does seem wrong to always feel as if we have to combine the women's with the main. It tells me we have no confidence in the women's game growing significantly.

I'd suggest he means the cost of hiring a stadium , being open 3 hours earlier is cheaper than hiring a completely separate venue for a day 

Can the women's game pay its way yet ? , Bearing in mind there are many like me with no interest in it at all 

[Superb Chops]

3 hours ago, Damien said:

I think this is a good point. As with most things comparisons with Football are just pointless.

Big crowds just have a snowball effect in Football and create the event and atmosphere. We occasionally see the same in RL but unfortunately not to the same extent or often enough.

I think the lock down showed what a different game Football is and feels like with no crowds. It was completely different and stripped of all the hype and fervor. The games seemed substantially poorer. If Football had RL type crowds things would be viewed very differently. As is the big crowds and atmosphere are the event, nothing else is really needed.

Agree with your closing paragraph Damien, in that what you describe was sterile and, for me, had all the attraction of giving up my free time to visit Ikea.

But I do, respectfully, disagree with the rest as I have enjoyed starting to follow Golcar United for the past three years.

This non-league football club has only had crowds of 200-700 when I’ve been but regular attendance has been more exciting than any individual RL match in that time. There is ‘something happening’ around this small football club that makes want to go.

For RL matches, I have had the feeling ‘maybe I should go’ for a long time and then routinely leave a bit underwhelmed. While I am probably in the minority for this, I think some others may think the same.

For those who still have passion for RL, that is great. 

[GUBRATS]

4 hours ago, barnyia said:

For NFL games a lot of the fans are there for the entertainment more than the game!!! When I went to see Tampa bay I found myself more interested by the sideline entertainment, the music, the dance camera, the catching competition etc etc. Same for rugby union internationals people speak about the atmosphere, the anthems, the Piper on the roof, the picnic before the game, 

Having seen pictures of the Tampa Cheerleaders I can see what you mean

[Scubby]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Having seen pictures of the Tampa Cheerleaders I can see what you mean

Saying Tampa and Cheerleaders in the same sentence seems wrong however you put it.

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

Your post could be written by the old blokes attending a County Cricket game on a Thursday resisting change years back. 

As per my opening post - if all you are interested in is the Rugby, you are catered for, that's great. 

People expect more. 

David, I was just pointing out the reality of the situation that some other 'attractions' are not reliant on diversity to attract punters through the gates but seemingly some deem it is a necessity to boost attendances in Rugby League in this country, yes I am well catered for in my needs albeit I have no issues if the match day starts 3 hours before and finishes 3 hours after the final whistle if it increases attendances I will still saunter up and leave at my usual time.

Be honest please Dave, do you consider that the "match day experience" will put appreciably more bums on seats for regular games and if so why is it not being pursued by club Owners/CEO's etc or is it just for Occasion games that it should be utilised?

[Damien]

30 minutes ago, Superb Chops said:

Agree with your closing paragraph Damien, in that what you describe was sterile and, for me, had all the attraction of giving up my free time to visit Ikea.

But I do, respectfully, disagree with the rest as I have enjoyed starting to follow Golcar United for the past three years.

This non-league football club has only had crowds of 200-700 when I’ve been but regular attendance has been more exciting than any individual RL match in that time. There is ‘something happening’ around this small football club that makes want to go.

For RL matches, I have had the feeling ‘maybe I should go’ for a long time and then routinely leave a bit underwhelmed. While I am probably in the minority for this, I think some others may think the same.

For those who still have passion for RL, that is great. 

I was talking more top level stuff but its a good point.

I know what you mean though about that feeling that you can't always quantify. RL gets does get that too with clubs, the likes of Barrow this year and other clubs in the past. At the 2013 RLWC England had that too with full houses against the like of Fiji and Ireland but its all too rare at the big events.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Damien

[Bobby123]

A drawback throughout, is the fact, IMO, that the world is overwhelmed with choice, be it food, cars, clothing and of course, sport. The fact that the game was no great shakes did not help the cause.

[Damien]

19 minutes ago, Bobby123 said:

A drawback throughout, is the fact, IMO, that the world is overwhelmed with choice, be it food, cars, clothing and of course, sport. The fact that the game was no great shakes did not help the cause.

Whilst true does that not just mean the sport has to work harder to attract fans? It cannot just assume that fans will turn up because they always have or because their parents did.

Other sports have still managed to increase their attendances whilst RL's have stagnated and declined. If they have done it then why can't RL?

[ELBOWSEYE]

5 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Last time I went to a football game it was no different to a RL game ' event ' wise 

Football is a one off no other sport gets the backing these days and its a constant never really changes. We embraced the need to create events then just gave up and nothing in RL is constant other than the need to change. 

[Dave T]

44 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

David, I was just pointing out the reality of the situation that some other 'attractions' are not reliant on diversity to attract punters through the gates but seemingly some deem it is a necessity to boost attendances in Rugby League in this country, yes I am well catered for in my needs albeit I have no issues if the match day starts 3 hours before and finishes 3 hours after the final whistle if it increases attendances I will still saunter up and leave at my usual time.

Be honest please Dave, do you consider that the "match day experience" will put appreciably more bums on seats for regular games and if so why is it not being pursued by club Owners/CEO's etc or is it just for Occasion games that it should be utilised?

Yes, I do think it will put bums on seats. Its why loads of events do it.

I accept your point about the theatre for example, but the whole point here is how we sell empty seats. The theatre is thriving, its attractive and has modest sized venues. 

The reason why people are reluctant is because it involves investment and it isn't guaranteed. 

But we have loads of evidence of repackaging products to grow crowds. Loads. 

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I accept your point about the theatre for example,

Bookending at theatre is fairly common. Making an evening of it with a meal beforehand or a drink afterwards (or at the interval) which, it's quite usual, for the theatre itself to offer. West End theatre packages usually also include accommodation and the like too.

Pre-performance talks, post-show Q&As, additional content you can access with your ticket are all standard as well.

And, from the theatre itself's POV, they will be looking to get people in who aren't actually going to the theatre. I was at that Royal Shakespeare Company in Stratford the other day and it was making a killing from people who were happy to soak up the vibe in the very nice bar but who didn't have tickets for any performance.

[Jeff Stein]

When I wander around town, there are always posters up advertising forthcoming productions at our local theatre. I would assume that most theatres don't just put plays on and assume people will turn up without publicity. Can one say the same for rugby league clubs?

Edited June 19, 2022 by Jeff Stein