Newcastle thunder

[Eddie]

28 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

I'd be surprised if the game didn't go ahead, players will want to be putting themselves in the shop window now to try and find deals for next year

Some may be happy to go part time with Newcastle too, and many of their contracts will be running out at the end of this season anyway so no change in reality. 

[The Blues Ox]

27 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

I'd be surprised if the game didn't go ahead, players will want to be putting themselves in the shop window now to try and find deals for next year

Its a huge risk for them to play, its a game they are likely to get hammered in anyway and without something lined up for next season the last thing you want is an injury. Bearing in mind most teams are already quite far down the line with their squads for next season as well.

[Dallas Mead]

3 hours ago, Derwent said:

I was at a function in Newcastle a few weeks ago on the same table as Semore Kurdi. I asked him what his plans were for Thunder and he just shrugged and said "they serve a purpose in absorbing some of the stadium overheads". On the subject of SL he said if a place were offered as part of a restructure/licensing arrangement then he would take it, but that he was not prepared to spend the sums that other Championship clubs are to get there by competitive promotion. In his view the sum required to build a team to win the Championship isn't worth it, SL income does not offer a decent risk/reward ratio to make it a viable investment in his opinion.

He did also say that he was cutting the Falcons playing budget by 20% for the next couple of years as well given the 3 year moratorium on P&R in RU.

His most telling comment was "with KP stadium and the hospitality company I would have a very good business if it wasn't for the 2 rugby teams !".

Rugby League at the top level in a nutshell folks, not enough money to make the gamble to get there worthwhile.  Who knew eh.  #ScrapTheCap

[Ragingbull]

1 hour ago, Jughead said:

They did it in fine in 2021 and 2019 and 2018…

2018 and 19 where they couldnt even get promoted out of league 1.

 

2021 they had he seeling point to players of kowing they were going to be paid full time wages this year, no such carrott this time. Obviously the cost of living has gone through the roof since  those contracts were signed at the end of 2020

Favourites for relegation next year in my book and any other perils that come with that.  Like i said previously, i hope im wrong.

[Jughead]

2 minutes ago, Ragingbull said:

2018 and 19 where they couldnt even get promoted out of league 1.

 

2021 they had he seeling point to players of kowing they were going to be paid full time wages this year, no such carrott this time. Obviously the cost of living has gone through the roof since  those contracts were signed at the end of 2020

Favourites for relegation next year in my book and any other perils that come with that.  Like i said previously, i hope im wrong.

And what’s wrong with competing in League One? You’re changing the goalposts. Players travelled and played for them prior to going full time. I suspect some will travel to play for them next year. 

[Toby Chopra]

59 minutes ago, Eddie said:

They’re building a strong community game in the north east, that will of course take time, but once it’s been going for 10-15 years there’ll be plenty of open age players with years of experience, and who will be their local pro / semi pro club? 

That's fine, and indeed welcome, but that club won't be in the Championship.

The London/SE rugby league system -  which at its peak was bigger than the NE one - didn't produce enough semi-pro players to be competitive in the championship. The best youngsters turned pro and either went into Broncos full-time system or went north. Those that stay semi pro, as we've seen this year, just isn't enough. Not a criticism of the efforts of those players or those that developed them, it's just a question of numbers. We can't overstate how deep the heartland pool is and therefore the odds of finding quality is so much better.

If Newcastle really are going PT and just relying on local players, it's back to L1 for them. And that's ok, and the RFL should support their efforts, as they add to the pathway.   

Edited August 17, 2022 by Toby Chopra

[Archie Gordon]

17 minutes ago, Ragingbull said:

...

2021 they had he seeling point to players of kowing they were going to be paid full time wages this year, no such carrott this time. 

...

Are you saying that the 2021 squad - that did ok in the Champ - was put together with the players knowing they would be FT in 2022?

[Archie Gordon]

15 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

...

The London/SE rugby league system -  which at its peak was bigger than the NE one - 

...

It still is bigger!

[Scubby]

Maybe they are being told the route to SL is no longer going to be through promotion and relegation? If that is they case, why would you be signing players on full time contracts who would only be good enough for the Championship. 

It seems pretty obvious that the model for promotion in 2022 was just sign 17 overseas players on one year deals and go for it. After this year it is certain the loophole will be closed.

Could you imagine the vitriol they would have got on here if it had been Thunder that did this in 2022?

[RigbyLuger]

If they're getting paid, which no-one is saying they are not, why wouldn't the game this weekend go ahead?

[Tubby]

15 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Maybe they are being told the route to SL is no longer going to be through promotion and relegation? If that is they case, why would you be signing players on full time contracts who would only be good enough for the Championship. 

It seems pretty obvious that the model for promotion in 2022 was just sign 17 overseas players on one year deals and go for it. After this year it is certain the loophole will be closed.

Could you imagine the vitriol they would have got on here if it had been Thunder that did this in 2022?

Just so I understand, which club are you referring to here? And when you say it’s certain the loophole will be closed, do you mean the limit on overseas players? And is that certainty based on some knowledge from within the RFL? If that is the case, it would make sense for the limits to be more aligned between SL and championship, although I’m not sure they need to be identical at this stage (IMO). 

[Jughead]

24 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Maybe they are being told the route to SL is no longer going to be through promotion and relegation? If that is they case, why would you be signing players on full time contracts who would only be good enough for the Championship. 

It seems pretty obvious that the model for promotion in 2022 was just sign 17 overseas players on one year deals and go for it. After this year it is certain the loophole will be closed.

Could you imagine the vitriol they would have got on here if it had been Thunder that did this in 2022?

Even so, full time professionalism just isn’t sustainable within the Championship based on the central funding received, crowds and TV income. Yes, there’s a couple of clubs with owners willing to throw their own money at it, which is entirely within their right, but ultimately it’s not something that can work at that level. 

And yes, I’m aware that Super League teams rely heavily on owners. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Jughead

[Stirlin]

Still waiting for Shropshire Bull to bring out his Crystal Ball on this one.

[V02]

2 hours ago, Cowboy said:

I think this is more of a title change then anything.

Hearing they only train 3 times a week as a 'full time' outfit which isn't any different to most 'part time' Championship clubs,some would be doing 4 sessions a week I'd imagine with captains run.

Don't think their wage bill would be overly high for this season either to be fair.

I think this shows a bit of a misunderstanding of what full time is.

Super League club players aren't in 40 hours a week. It would typically be 3-4 days per week, so 3 training days doesn't sound unreasonable.

The difference comes with the provision of everything around the main field session. Strength and conditioning supervised and as a squad, team and individual video preview/review led by the coaches, wrestle, hand-eye coordination, eating together as a squad. Part time teams will be able to tick some of those boxes, but not all of them and not with as much focus. The actual field sessions probably don't look too much different - there's still physiological and psychological limits on what training is productive.

[crashmon]

6 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

Abysmal planning. Three quarters of a season and alredy giving it up. Im not sure what they were expecting in this first season and if they thought just putting a few full time players together would make it a doddle to get in to the playoffs. 

They have been taking lessons from David Hughes on how to destroy a RL Team...
Lets hope  they don't employ a bottom 3 L1 Team coach, and staff the club with bottom 3 L1 players, as we all saw how that worked out for London

[Gav Wilson]

14 minutes ago, crashmon said:

They have been taking lessons from David Hughes on how to destroy a RL Team...
Lets hope  they don't employ a bottom 3 L1 Team coach, and staff the club with bottom 3 L1 players, as we all saw how that worked out for London

Who ironically, are one place above Newcastle in the table...

[crashmon]

Just now, Gav Wilson said:

Who ironically, are one place above Newcastle in the table...

More luck than judgement, Mike Eccles has proven to be a great find, but that is not owing to DH finding him. Of course there is no decision on whether London will keep Eccles on as Head coach, or keep the better players they have now.

London's improvement has nothing to do with DH, he just got very lucky with his temporary coach

[Scubby]

42 minutes ago, Tubby said:

Just so I understand, which club are you referring to here? And when you say it’s certain the loophole will be closed, do you mean the limit on overseas players? And is that certainty based on some knowledge from within the RFL? If that is the case, it would make sense for the limits to be more aligned between SL and championship, although I’m not sure they need to be identical at this stage (IMO). 

I am an admirer of those in the Championship who figured it out and benefitted not bitter about it. Good on them - it was a really smart move. Newcastle have shown the organic route is very long and painful.

[yipyee]

6 hours ago, Dave T said:

This doesn't work. 

People can think something is destined to fail without actually being happy about it failing. 

We could launch an SL team in Krakow and I'd be certain it'd fail, but I'd love to be proved wrong. 

It is strange that most anger does seem to be pointed at those who turn out to be right. 

The negativity is like the scene in the matrix with the vase...

[Toby Chopra]

1 hour ago, Archie Gordon said:

It still is bigger!

I thought it might be but didn't know for sure. Good to hear! 

[The Blues Ox]

1 hour ago, RigbyLuger said:

If they're getting paid, which no-one is saying they are not, why wouldn't the game this weekend go ahead?

It probably will but I can see a few not been too happy about it. If you were Ollie Roberts and had just been told your longterm contract is going to be torn up basically making you unemployed for next season, I can't see him been too happy to put his body on the line risking injury that could stop him taking up a contract at another club next season.

[Scubby]

6 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

It probably will but I can see a few not been too happy about it. If you were Ollie Roberts and had just been told your longterm contract is going to be torn up basically making you unemployed for next season, I can't see him been too happy to put his body on the line risking injury that could stop him taking up a contract at another club next season.

Have they said they are not honouring full time contracts or just not resigning full time players on one year deals next year? It is highly plausible that they will be essentially a part time club with a small number of full time players. This has historically happened at a few championship clubs.

[Mumby Magic]

Damned whatever they do. They are hardly expansion now. They were thrown a sink or swim franchise from our decision makers the RFL. No matter in what guise or variation they are still here.

On to topic they have made a conscious business decision which should be commended. **Looks around at other Championship clubs**

[gazza77]

How does this decision impact their academy? 

[The Future is League]

6 minutes ago, gazza77 said:

How does this decision impact their academy? 

Hopefully they keep it going.

Junior development is the games future, not has been's and never was players from the NRL