Burgess in at Wire (Merged Threads)

[Mapleyther]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

… at the top of SL…

I unashamedly admit this comment about Wire gave me a giggle.

[RayCee]

As long as her realises he may have to come out of retirement to boost the forward pack.

[moorside roughyed]

Gods knows. 

[overtheborder]

2 hours ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

He had no playing experience at the pro level and worked in lower levels, name me any modern coaches who have used the same path. He is doing okay but to try and imply that Wigan didn't take a gamble is simply wrong. You could say it's one of the biggest gambles far more than burgess.

I would agree in general with that had it not been for Wane being involved in the set up, which felt like something of an insurance policy for me. Not knocking Peet there by the way, I'm sure many a coach uses their more experienced allies for advice.

[Moe syszlak]

3 hours ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

So that's Wire in League 1 in a couple of seasons.

Relegated? Well, there's a first time for everything.

[Damien]

3 hours ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

He had no playing experience at the pro level and worked in lower levels, name me any modern coaches who have used the same path. He is doing okay but to try and imply that Wigan didn't take a gamble is simply wrong. You could say it's one of the biggest gambles far more than burgess.

It's not remotely the same as Burgess no matter how you try and frame it.

[Blotto]

I did wonder where Brian Noble would be "Consulting" next season maybe..........?

[ELBOWSEYE]

5 hours ago, Damien said:

It's not remotely the same as Burgess no matter how you try and frame it.

I agree, Peet was more of a gamble.

[Wolford6]

The worrying thing about the Daryl Powell and Sean Long dismissals is is that our game is turning into football ... knee-jerk sacking of managers at the first hiccup in results.

Unlike football, there is not enough  money in the game to adequately compensate  the unfortunate coaches. We can't expect anyone with real promise as a coach to want the job if he has a young family to support.

[Dave T]

I genuinely have no idea how this will go. I have concerns that his coaching CV isn't good enough, but hey ill go along for the ride. 

What it does blow apart though is this whole toxic culture narrative. This appointment wouldn't be the one to sort that if there was one. 

I've made my feelings clear, it is a lazy excuse imo for when we lose a game, and was never mentioned when we were beating Saints at Wembley for example, or battling at the top of the table. 

We had two good managers in Smith and Price for 12 or so years and I find it disrespectful to claim that they had overseen a toxic culture. The only evidence anyone ever presented was that we lost the odd game we were favourites for. Well, that's sport!

Under Powell that seemed to be the narrative, that it was all about overhauling the culture and as an outsider it felt like management from the 1950s and it's broken the team to a level that hasn't been seen during the last couple of decades. 

Would I have chosen Burgess at this stage of his career, no. But I'm excited to see how it goes, but then, I always am! 

[Dave T]

14 minutes ago, Wolford6 said:

The worrying thing about the Daryl Powell and Sean Long dismissals is is that our game is turning into football ... knee-jerk sacking of managers at the first hiccup in results.

Unlike football, there is not enough  money in the game to adequately compensate  the unfortunate coaches. We can't expect anyone with real promise as a coach to want the job if he has a young family to support.

Have you not been paying attention? To either Wire for the last 2 years, or indeed RL for the last few decades? 

[RP London]

14 minutes ago, Wolford6 said:

The worrying thing about the Daryl Powell and Sean Long dismissals is is that our game is turning into football ... knee-jerk sacking of managers at the first hiccup in results.

Unlike football, there is not enough  money in the game to adequately compensate  the unfortunate coaches. We can't expect anyone with real promise as a coach to want the job if he has a young family to support.

I don't think you can say Powell was knee jerk.. he has had that coming for, at least, weeks.. arguably he could have gone at the end of last season or this time last year. 

[hindle xiii]

10 hours ago, Eddie said:

That would be brilliant tbf. 

[Dave T]

32 minutes ago, RP London said:

I don't think you can say Powell was knee jerk.. he has had that coming for, at least, weeks.. arguably he could have gone at the end of last season or this time last year. 

Yup. 

In 2021 Wire had a win % of 68%

In 2022 Wire had a win % of 32%

[Dave T]

One thing I would say on all of this is that this is box office stuff. I make this point regularly, that this is the entertainment business we are in. Sure, the sport element is very important, and winning is entertaining, but I've never been critical of the club going bold with things - whether that be signing Andrew Johns for a few games, or gambling on Inglis etc. 

These things may not work out, but as we've seen, there's no such thing as a sure thing, and always going for the risk averse option isn't as much fun. 

People are gonna be interested in how we go next year, it's a huge story. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Dave T

[GeordieSaint]

Copyright @Gav Wilson on Twitter:

 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

48 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I genuinely have no idea how this will go. I have concerns that his coaching CV isn't good enough, but hey ill go along for the ride. 

What it does blow apart though is this whole toxic culture narrative. This appointment wouldn't be the one to sort that if there was one. 

I've made my feelings clear, it is a lazy excuse imo for when we lose a game, and was never mentioned when we were beating Saints at Wembley for example, or battling at the top of the table. 

We had two good managers in Smith and Price for 12 or so years and I find it disrespectful to claim that they had overseen a toxic culture. The only evidence anyone ever presented was that we lost the odd game we were favourites for. Well, that's sport!

Under Powell that seemed to be the narrative, that it was all about overhauling the culture and as an outsider it felt like management from the 1950s and it's broken the team to a level that hasn't been seen during the last couple of decades. 

Would I have chosen Burgess at this stage of his career, no. But I'm excited to see how it goes, but then, I always am! 

Spot on, the whole “toxic culture” thing became a self-feeding myth from a couple of years ago after a bad run of results back then. It’s just lazy.

Burgess has 3 years coaching experience, Wayne Bennett rates him as a coach, and he has always led the sides he’s in from a young age so will absolutely bring that Shaun Wane style “follow me over this hill” mindset. I think this is a good left-field, imaginative and disruptive choice, why not be bold? 
 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Hull Kingston Bronco
Typo

[RP London]

15 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Spot on, the whole “toxic culture” thing became a self-feeding myth from a couple of years ago after a bad run of results back then. It’s just lazy.

Burgess has 3 years coaching experience, Wayne Bennett rates him as a coach, and he has always led the sides he’s in from a young age so will absolutely bring that Shaun Wane style “follow me over this hill” mindset. I think this is a good left-field, imaginative and disruptive choice, why not be bold? 
 

indeed.. this could go horribly wrong but if it doesnt then its a great move that could really pay off.

TBH this is one of those things that "being safe" is supposed to help.. a left field appointment that is "risk free" becuase relegation isn't really there (Warrington should have enough points elsewhere) but if it works is arguably actually good for the game in England as a whole (another good English coach). Its something thrown at football that young managers arent given the opportunity becuase its dangerous to do so. We need to think the same with the players too that young, English, players should be given the opportunity ahead of aging aussies and the risk if they dont come off is less with no relegation. 

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I genuinely have no idea how this will go. I have concerns that his coaching CV isn't good enough, but hey ill go along for the ride. 

What it does blow apart though is this whole toxic culture narrative. This appointment wouldn't be the one to sort that if there was one. 

I've made my feelings clear, it is a lazy excuse imo for when we lose a game, and was never mentioned when we were beating Saints at Wembley for example, or battling at the top of the table. 

We had two good managers in Smith and Price for 12 or so years and I find it disrespectful to claim that they had overseen a toxic culture. The only evidence anyone ever presented was that we lost the odd game we were favourites for. Well, that's sport!

Under Powell that seemed to be the narrative, that it was all about overhauling the culture and as an outsider it felt like management from the 1950s and it's broken the team to a level that hasn't been seen during the last couple of decades. 

Would I have chosen Burgess at this stage of his career, no. But I'm excited to see how it goes, but then, I always am! 

Its more about managing ego’s.  I think SB will inspire these players to up their game now.

TBH a good pro like Vaughan must wonder wtf he has got himself into.

[dkw]

Currently he`s Schrodinger's Coach, until we open the box and see him as head coach this could either be a stroke of genius or a massive mistake. Good on them for taking a risk in my opinion rather than bricking it and looking to a known "solid" coach.

[ELBOWSEYE]

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

Currently he`s Schrodinger's Coach, until we open the box and see him as head coach this could either be a stroke of genius or a massive mistake. Good on them for taking a risk in my opinion rather than bricking it and looking to a known "solid" coach.

Who or what is Schrödinger's 

[RP London]

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

Currently he`s Schrodinger's Coach, until we open the box and see him as head coach this could either be a stroke of genius or a massive mistake. Good on them for taking a risk in my opinion rather than bricking it and looking to a known "solid" coach.

Also i think if he was born and bred in australia with the coaching record that he has and the coaches that are saying nice things about him the headlines would be more around "super move", "worth the risk", "potentially great coach" etc etc as we have seen before. 

[RP London]

1 minute ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Who or what is Schrödinger's 

google "schrodingers cat"

Cat in a box.. it could be dead, it could be alive but until you open the box you dont know basically.

[ELBOWSEYE]

Just now, RP London said:

google "schrodingers cat"

Cat in a box.. it could be dead, it could be alive but until you open the box you dont know basically.

Cheers 

[dkw]

2 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Who or what is Schrödinger's 

Famous thought experiment Schrodinger used to explain Quantum theory. Basically a cat is in a box with a bit of radioactive substance. Until we open the box we dont know what has happened so its easy to hypothesise the cat is in 2 states at one time, both dead and alive.