2024 attendance thread

[sweaty craiq]

29 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

There is a definite problem with the NW as a venue for England games - over and above whether a series is fashionable or not.

Please can we stop taking England games there.

There is always a problem in the first test especially a couple of weeks after the GF in half term week when clubs are marketing season tickets. A family probably blew £300-500 on the GF and have £800-1000 of season tickets to buy and Christmas not far off. They will select G2 or 3 as they matter more, Yorkshire should be fine as they have had 6 weeks without RL

[Archie Gordon]

1 minute ago, sweaty craiq said:

There is always a problem in the first test especially a couple of weeks after the GF in half term week when clubs are marketing season tickets. A family probably blew £300-500 on the GF and have £800-1000 of season tickets to buy and Christmas not far off. They will select G2 or 3 as they matter more, Yorkshire should be fine as they have had 6 weeks without RL

Indeed, that's one strand of the point I'm making.

[Dave T]

20 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

I have said this for years. It’s the RFL pushing for Test Series. Nobody else. We need to move on. Again, we are being left behind as nostalgia is getting in the way of development. 

Partly. The RFL led the way with the tri and four nations and when they had influence with the international board they were set to grow it to 6 nations, then 8. The only time we held test series was when the Aussies had a year off. 

The Lions tour was a bad idea, but it was based around an Ashes tour which could still be a huge asset for the sport. It has a rich history. There was no need to make it GB though.

England are staging test series simply because we are being thrown scraps by an aggressive 'partner'.

The growth of the PN tournament is great, but it is really a little self-serviced NRL international comp that can be run with minimal costs and effort.

[Just Browny]

35 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

There is always a problem in the first test especially a couple of weeks after the GF in half term week when clubs are marketing season tickets. A family probably blew £300-500 on the GF and have £800-1000 of season tickets to buy and Christmas not far off. They will select G2 or 3 as they matter more, Yorkshire should be fine as they have had 6 weeks without RL

The sales for game 3 are currently appalling.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

14 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

The sales for game 3 are currently appalling.

I blame the RFL's ticketing strategy

[Just Browny]

1 minute ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I blame the RFL's ticketing strategy

Yes there are large sections of the stadium that haven't been put on sale yet, not sure what they are waiting for.

[gingerjon]

52 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

There is always a problem in the first test especially a couple of weeks after the GF in half term week when clubs are marketing season tickets. A family probably blew £300-500 on the GF and have £800-1000 of season tickets to buy and Christmas not far off. They will select G2 or 3 as they matter more, Yorkshire should be fine as they have had 6 weeks without RL

Yes.

We absolutely need to stop selling games to the exact same people over and over again.

[N2022]

4 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I think the success of the Pacific tournament is something to be massively welcomed. These games form a perfect backdrop to a 2026 World Cup already looking like being the sort of tournament we always thought the Aussies could put on. The level of joined up thinking and media push from the NRL this year has been beyond anything we have ever seen. Look at the huge viewing figures for the Kangaroos game. There is vast vast potential for our game down there. 

As far as NH games are concerned, we know there is absolutely massive appetite for a kangaroos series or a World Cup and loads of interest to watch the Kiwis. If we can break even while giving vital experience to our players with tours against Samoa and Tonga then that’s great and progress which would have been unimaginable pre 2013. 

We have literally never had it even close to being this good internationally across the globe. 
 

 

Either an NRL agent charged with spreading disinformation, or the most glass-half-full person on the planet. If it's the latter, I'm looking forward to your next post on why the future has never been so bright for London Broncos.

[Exiled Wiganer]

44 minutes ago, N2022 said:

Either an NRL agent charged with spreading disinformation, or the most glass-half-full person on the planet. If it's the latter, I'm looking forward to your next post on why the future has never been so bright for London Broncos.

I have re read this and can’t see what you’re finding fault with. Everything I assert is based on measurable evidence. The inferences are my own.
 

I will give you a few examples of the basis for this:

- England have had historically vast crowds for our last 2 world cups;

- the last New Zealand and Australia series had historically excellent crowds. 
 

Hence, the proposition that in the NH we can run successful world cups and tours is demonstrably true. 
 

What is different and unique in the NRL era about this PNs is that is being run and promoted by the same people as run and promote the NRL. We have seen this in their media feeds and the coverage on Fox. This has been reflected in excellent crowds and huge viewing figures. These same people will be running and promoting the 26 World Cup which will be the first modern era SH World Cup integrated within the NRL system. That is something which the game has been crying out for. 
 

if you can think of a more successful era for our game globally, then please feel free to argue the case. 
 

(on the Broncos having spent thousands of pounds supporting them over the 30 odd years I have lived in the south, candidly I don’t understand their purpose in a fragmented events driven London: I would rather we committed to more major league events in London, as you could get more for Leeds - Hull KR properly marketed than the Broncos would ever get. And if Hughes’ money had been spent on southern development officers the game would be in vastly better shape…)

Edited October 19 by Exiled Wiganer

[Hopie]

1 hour ago, GeordieSaint said:

I have said this for years. It’s the RFL pushing for Test Series. Nobody else. We need to move on. Again, we are being left behind as nostalgia is getting in the way of development. 

Test series are a valid part of a wider program, when it comes to it if we had enough matches there would be space for tournaments, series and one off matches, but there is so much more going on here that to say the RFL are pushing for a series and nobody else is? Did you miss all the people saying the 2 matches we get aren't enough?

1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:

There is always a problem in the first test especially a couple of weeks after the GF in half term week when clubs are marketing season tickets. A family probably blew £300-500 on the GF and have £800-1000 of season tickets to buy and Christmas not far off. They will select G2 or 3 as they matter more, Yorkshire should be fine as they have had 6 weeks without RL

Last year's series attracted the highest crowd to match 3, match 1 outsold match 2. Historically the third test sold more tickets after the series began, especially if it was a decider, so the first test should be the better selling game all other things being equal, the first test isn't the problem here.

The theme of your post about matches being the wrong time of year, or too close to together is the mindset of someone who we really shouldn't be aiming for, we shouldn't be trying to get someone who comes along if they have enough money in their pocket on the day of the game, it should be an anticipated event that people set money aside for when the match is announced, and we also need people who are coming to this game because it is a premium event, the pinnacle of the game, not a freebie they get on the back of another purchase or a groupon discount.

 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:

There is always a problem in the first test especially a couple of weeks after the GF in half term week when clubs are marketing season tickets. A family probably blew £300-500 on the GF and have £800-1000 of season tickets to buy and Christmas not far off. They will select G2 or 3 as they matter more, Yorkshire should be fine as they have had 6 weeks without RL

The rugby league spectator pool isn’t so small that most people who’ll go to an England game also went to the grand final. 

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

The rugby league spectator pool isn’t so small that most people who’ll go to an England game also went to the grand final. 

It's undoubtedly a factor when the game is at Wigan, whose fans you'd expect to make up a fair proportion of the crowd.

[Eddie]

9 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's undoubtedly a factor when the game is at Wigan, whose fans you'd expect to make up a fair proportion of the crowd.

Maybe, but plenty of football fans in the north west would go to two big games in consecutive weeks, I don’t think it’s an economy thing. 

[N2022]

1 hour ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I have re read this and can’t see what you’re finding fault with. Everything I assert is based on measurable evidence. The inferences are my own.
 

I will give you a few examples of the basis for this:

- England have had historically vast crowds for our last 2 world cups;

- the last New Zealand and Australia series had historically excellent crowds. 
 

Hence, the proposition that in the NH we can run successful world cups and tours is demonstrably true. 

What is different and unique in the NRL era about this PNs is that is being run and promoted by the same people as run and promote the NRL. We have seen this in their media feeds and the coverage on Fox. This has been reflected in excellent crowds and huge viewing figures. These same people will be running and promoting the 26 World Cup which will be the first modern era SH World Cup integrated within the NRL system. That is something which the game has been crying out for. 

if you can think of a more successful era for our game globally, then please feel free to argue the case. 
 

Not unreasonable, but I take issue with some points in there, or at least bits linked to your observations that went unmentioned. 

The RLWC crowds in Eng were as you say pretty decent but we hoped we would kick on from there. Instead we had France pull out of hosting - not an encouraging reflection of the international game's profile or profitability. Aus then picked it up and have shrunk it back to a 10-team format. Worse still, I suspect they would rather see future iterations at just 8 than drive expansion of the competition back up to 12 or more. You highlight their involvement as key and integration with their calendar as a huge step forward. For me, this puts too much on their terms and while I get that it's hard to have it any other way when they are by far the main player, it just feels precarious. NRL willing to run overseas games rather than WCC to me says something about their attitude to English (and by extension European) rugby. I do feel they'd happily never see another RLWC or Ashes take place if they thought by cutting the international game they could in some way boost SOO or their commercial value.

Yes, there's a decent PN taking place, but what progress is being made in Europe? Certainly little anywhere near the top table. Eng v Samoa cut to 2 games is another and stars staying home for a wedding. We play France, but scheduled as a clash with club match so they are without some of their best players. Just so far from a sustainable, progressive elite set-up in my opinion. Some progress in Balkans but meanwhile Sco, Wal, Ire get no closer to top tier standard. 

Has there been a better time for international RL? I don't know the game's history well enough to say, less still pinpoint an era, but that doesn't mean that it's necessarily in great health or on a good trajectory now.

May end up agreeing to differ, perhaps I am being too cynical. Just put some thoughts and will be interested to see what others add.

Edited October 19 by N2022
Typo

[Leyther_Matt]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

The rugby league spectator pool isn’t so small that most people who’ll go to an England game also went to the grand final. 

Sadly I actually think it is that small for any England games that aren’t at event venues tbh. 

[Forever Trinity]

8016 at Wakefield this evening

[DoubleD]

3 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Sadly I actually think it is that small for any England games that aren’t at event venues tbh. 

Which is part of the problem. Casual fans will be thinking, do I want to make a weekend of it in Wigan? No thanks. Leeds is a better destination. So you’re left with local fans which is a saturated market.

The RFL really need to cotton on about value rather than cost. People want experiences and events, not just a run of the mill game at a SL ground. The atmosphere at the games last year were poor, mainly because the setup was so uninspiring. I’ll be going next week, haven’t got my ticket yet but really struggling to entice others along to it 

[DoubleD]

6 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

I have said this for years. It’s the RFL pushing for Test Series. Nobody else. We need to move on. Again, we are being left behind as nostalgia is getting in the way of development. 

It comes down to cost. The cost of putting up 3 teams for a 4 nations is clearly a lot more than a single nation. Hotels, travel, food etc. 

[Eddie]

14 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

I have said this for years. It’s the RFL pushing for Test Series. Nobody else. We need to move on. Again, we are being left behind as nostalgia is getting in the way of development. 

I’m probably in the minority but I like a three match test series, there’s something traditional about it and when it’s 1-1 going into the last game it offers more than a one off match can. 

[Archie Gordon]

27 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I’m probably in the minority but I like a three match test series, there’s something traditional about it and when it’s 1-1 going into the last game it offers more than a one off match can. 

I don't think you're in a minority. 

[gingerjon]

13 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I don't think you're in a minority. 

Not sure what any data would say but my feeling is that people would prefer three match series over two matches or one off games - but all of those fall behind a 3-4 team tournament set up.

Edited October 20 by gingerjon

[Archie Gordon]

Just now, gingerjon said:

Not sure what any data would say but my feeling is that people would prefer three match series over two matches or one off games - but all of those fall behind a 3-4 tournament set up.

I think you make the point in your first few words. It's the data that count and they don't really show that a series is less popular than a 4 nations. People just like well-promoted prestigious international games. We aren't delivered them.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Archie Gordon said:

I think you make the point in your first few words. It's the data that count and they don't really show that a series is less popular than a 4 nations. People just like well-promoted prestigious international games. We aren't delivered them.

Indeed. It's a bit like asking "what is more popular: Great Britain or England", when the answer, really, is 'neither'.

[Sports Prophet]

20 hours ago, gingerjon said:

I can very quickly see a situation where England are either part of the tournaments down under or simply not playing games at all.

Apart from an Ashes tour which probably continues for a while, I can only see England enticing big nations over if they are to play in a tournament.

I would love to see the RFL and FFRXIII go bold and joint host a six nations, with or without a final. It’s the only way I see the likes of the Pacific Islands caring to travel to the NH in the future (outside a WC obviously).

[sweaty craiq]

21 hours ago, Eddie said:

The rugby league spectator pool isn’t so small that most people who’ll go to an England game also went to the grand final. 

You would expect 10k from Wigan to form the base of the crowd - guaranteeing 20k imo. I am posting from Lanzarote and I know plenty who are away at present with Kids. Wigan is an end of line town and I know connections aren’t great East to West. We are off to Wigan with 10 but tbh the fixture doesnt excite me, Aus and NZ are the be all and end all imo