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The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)


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My tuppence worth is that Franchising has failed because too many clubs were allowed to get away with underperforming. This comes down to a lack of leadership and strength at the top of the game.

Franchising was supposed to allow teams to up their game over the course of a 3 year licence period without the risks of relegation. What in fact has happened is far too many clubs have seen it as an opportunity to do the bare minimum.

The fact 2nd tier/Championship clubs have not had the same access to the sort of money Superleague clubs have means they've not been able to close the gap as much as they might. Although the gap is not as wide as it should have been because of the failures of Superleague clubs.

Looking forward I'd have preferred to have 2 leagues of 12 with 1 up 1 down but with minimum standards a la RU Premiership. That avoids the convoluted system we've now got where presumably if you can fund 13 players on the pitch pretty much anything else goes.

1 up 1 down with standards means you have to win on the pitch and look after the other bits. I'm not convinced that the 3rd group of 8 is going to add much. Are they really going to have playoffs to determine mid-table mediocrity?

I like the idea with a couple of midlands clubs we can have regionalised National Leagues with hopefully cross "conference" games as well.

It'll certainly be interesting to watch the scramble to avoid the bottom 2 this year and we might see a closing of the playing gap between SL and Championship gap over 3 years so we can hopefully see a 1 up 1 down next time round.

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Sounds like Featherstone are going well and that's very good to hear.

I think the point Martyn is making is that companies that own their own assets are actually more vulnerable when things go wrong. Like if a factory goes bust the taxman can list any machinery they own but not if they rent or lease them. It's not exactly fair but that's how it works.

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My tuppence worth is that Franchising has failed because too many clubs were allowed to get away with underperforming. This comes down to a lack of leadership and strength at the top of the game.

Franchising was supposed to allow teams to up their game over the course of a 3 year licence period without the risks of relegation. What in fact has happened is far too many clubs have seen it as an opportunity to do the bare minimum.

I would agree with that.
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My tuppence worth is that Franchising has failed because too many clubs were allowed to get away with underperforming. This comes down to a lack of leadership and strength at the top of the game.

Franchising was supposed to allow teams to up their game over the course of a 3 year licence period without the risks of relegation. What in fact has happened is far too many clubs have seen it as an opportunity to do the bare minimum.

The fact 2nd tier/Championship clubs have not had the same access to the sort of money Superleague clubs have means they've not been able to close the gap as much as they might. Although the gap is not as wide as it should have been because of the failures of Superleague clubs.

Looking forward I'd have preferred to have 2 leagues of 12 with 1 up 1 down but with minimum standards a la RU Premiership. That avoids the convoluted system we've now got where presumably if you can fund 13 players on the pitch pretty much anything else goes.

1 up 1 down with standards means you have to win on the pitch and look after the other bits. I'm not convinced that the 3rd group of 8 is going to add much. Are they really going to have playoffs to determine mid-table mediocrity?

I like the idea with a couple of midlands clubs we can have regionalised National Leagues with hopefully cross "conference" games as well.

It'll certainly be interesting to watch the scramble to avoid the bottom 2 this year and we might see a closing of the playing gap between SL and Championship gap over 3 years so we can hopefully see a 1 up 1 down next time round.

1 up and down didnt work before (though was better than licensing). One spot didnt allow enough hope and refreshment for teams outside SL. Also the relegated club usually had an excessive parachute payment which put them at the advantage - also remember that RL has far more big clubs than RU outside their respective top flights, so its important to maintain interest for clubs outside SL. Should this new scheme not work (and I think it will), then 2 up 2 down would be a good compromise

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Hi Parky, either Martyn is lying or our board is telling fibs. http://featherstonerovers.net/article.php?id=11501

 

Well done Mr Sadler for highlighting our so called financial problems, it just shows how peeved he his with the recent developments which makes me soo happy :P

 

Didn't get chance to respond yesterday but yes I am looking forward to proper on field Rugby debates. 

 

Both of them were telling the truth.

 

Fev reported a profit.

 

Their current liabilities far exceed their current assets.  Largely due to the huge losses they made in the previous three years.

 

They're not the same thing.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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Martyn, you could not have given a fig about our finances until we started to become a threat to your ideals of how the game should look............... Not one bit.   You are not an accountant and the worst that can possibly happen is that we would end up like 90% of teams and renting.  Our land has hardly been benficial in furthering our cause in the summer era, and now we may get a look in you suddenly become concerned. 

I suggest you arrange a meeting with Mark Cambell and express your concerns to him instead of assuming stuff on here.  Now that would be the right thing to do if you were really concerned.

VIVA THE FEVOLUTION

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So if i've got this right,some people are saying its ok for wakefield to be in sl and constantly failing and going into admin cos they've got nothing to lose but fev shouldn't be allowed in because they're a cracking club thats well run,makes a profit and owns its own stadium and land?

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I think what is really eating away at some people is the fact the Featherstone Rovers have been pivotal in making this restructure happen.   Blowing Cas out of the water and running wigan close was where it all stared  and having a chairman who has worked with others and brought about a change in attitude.

I will be deadly honest.  I see RL as a tribal sport and I am buzzing at the fact that the likes of Wakefield and Cas may suffer some hardship.  Humans are Selfish................... to a man on here all our views ultimately service our own needs.

 

 

And you been a Wakefield Fan (martyn) can probably see your shiny new stadium and thus future slipping away, because should you get relegated it will be very hard to justify the build.   Good luck

VIVA THE FEVOLUTION

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I'm just wondering - if a club like - say - Sheffield finishes Third in Middle Eight but don't meet minimum standards, will the Middle Eight Play-off be between Fifth and Sixth or Fourth and Fifth ?

 

If it's between Fourth and Fifth, what are they playing for ?

Edited by Griff

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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So if i've got this right,some people are saying its ok for wakefield to be in sl and constantly failing and going into admin cos they've got nothing to lose but fev shouldn't be allowed in because they're a cracking club thats well run,makes a profit and owns its own stadium and land

 

yup thats what the great RL Minds are saying lol

VIVA THE FEVOLUTION

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I'm just wondering - if a club like - say - Sheffield finishes Third in Middle Eight but don't meet minimum standards, will the Middle Eight Play-off be between Fifth and Sixth or Fourth and Fifth ?

 

If it's between Fourth and Fifth, what are they playing for ?

Why on earth do you let your head get clogged up with wondering about all that ######.  

 

Doncaster will take up your mantel now, great stadium, developing team, good structure and management set up, time to start looking over your shoulder in South yorks

Edited by petesmithfan

VIVA THE FEVOLUTION

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My tuppence worth is that Franchising has failed because too many clubs were allowed to get away with underperforming. This comes down to a lack of leadership and strength at the top of the game.Franchising was supposed to allow teams to up their game over the course of a 3 year licence period without the risks of relegation. What in fact has happened is far too many clubs have seen it as an opportunity to do the bare minimum.

 

 

Well again that's an argument that looks fine on the face of it.

 

However why were there such bad academies? Why did clubs have to do the bare minimum, why did many SL clubs not have the same staffing and facilities the big boys had??

 

It was a lack of money simple as that. Licensing was a medium for clubs to succeed in, but many of the clubs did not have the money to meet the licensing requirements fully.

 

Much of the £Millions put in by the Fulton's, Hudgell's, O'Connors, Hughes, Richardson, Wilkinson etc merely went to try to put a competitive team on the pitch. The clubs incomes could not pay for everything licensing demanded.

 

I think your maybe off beam to think the clubs were just lazy?

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I wonder if Martyn could do an interview with Mark Cambel where could pose all the questions that are troubling him about the rovers finances.  Then we can all have the low down,   Seems churlish speculating on here when he has better access to the people with the facts than we do.

Look forward to seeing interview in print.

 

VIVA THE FEVOLUTION

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Doncaster will take up your mantel now, great stadium, developing team, good structure and management set up, time to start looking over your shoulder in South yorks

 

Good luck to them.  Neither Sheffield nor Doncaster is ready for $uperleague just yet.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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I wonder if Martyn could do an interview with Mark Cambel where could pose all the questions that are troubling him about the rovers finances.  Then we can all have the low down,   Seems churlish speculating on here when he has better access to the people with the facts than we do.

Look forward to seeing interview in print.

 

Alvin..... What a fabulous idea!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Go straight to the organ grinder and ask.........

Edited by Robin Evans

"I love our club, absolutely love it". (Overton, M 2007)

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Why could Championship teams like Fev, Fax and Sheffield afford or want to run academy teams at a number of levels but SL clubs saying they couldnt afford? Was it not Huddersfield who failed more than once to fulfil academy fixtures at U20 level? SL Clubs have been lazy often and looked for short term benefits. With no relegation for 3 years it was an ideal time for clubs to look to spend money on the academy and give more youngsters a chance at SL. Some clubs did it but many didnt. The decision to get rid of the U20s was short term thinking and down to lazyness. The likes of Bradford, Wakey, Cas, London, Hudds, Salford (before Koukash) had money to waste on no name overseas players but often couldnt be bothered to properly fund a reserve/U20s team and voted to get rid. The money is there if clubs wanted to run a reserve/U20s but would rather waste it on signing first grade players in the hope of reaching the playoffs. The 3 year licences didnt solve anything as clubs were prepared to bust the bank to be in the playoffs and think short term. Dual regs was again short term and lazy thinking. A number of players have either walked away from the game or gone to Australia because of this. The game has since forever got down the short term thinking route and made decisions based on yesterday instead of looking at the future and making decisions which will reap benefits later. People will make excuses for clubs like not having enough money etc, but how much has Bradford, Salford, Wakey received from Sky money over the years and I bet much of that was wasted. Its poor management that has let SL down from both clubs and the RFL. It would be good if the game actually grew up and took some responsibilty for its state rather than forever looking elsewhere for the source of its problems

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Just seems the sensible thing for a Journalist to do Robin ;) ;) ;)

 

What amazes me is its clear to see where any investment or directors loans have gone at Fev,  Stand, refreshment kiosks, floodlights (hull kr to be installed)  centre of excellence, club house refit, all of which are expected to see a return over a period.   Gound improvements will increase capacity = more revenue, refreshment kiosks = more revenue,  floodlights meet criteria meaning chance of promotion = more central funding,  centre of excellence = better players = better results = more transfer income. Stand = business units = more revenue,  stand = disabled gym = diversity.  Club house refit= more functions (weddings etc) = more revenue.

the diversity of our business also = more sponsors= more revenue.

Its not like we have just thrown it all at the team.   Our liabilities represent great value in the medium to long term, where as the liabilities of say Bradford or Wakefield represent  very poor value in the short , medium and long term.

Edited by petesmithfan

VIVA THE FEVOLUTION

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Well again that's an argument that looks fine on the face of it.

 

However why were there such bad academies? Why did clubs have to do the bare minimum, why did many SL clubs not have the same staffing and facilities the big boys had??

 

It was a lack of money simple as that. Licensing was a medium for clubs to succeed in, but many of the clubs did not have the money to meet the licensing requirements fully.

 

Much of the £Millions put in by the Fulton's, Hudgell's, O'Connors, Hughes, Richardson, Wilkinson etc merely went to try to put a competitive team on the pitch. The clubs incomes could not pay for everything licensing demanded.

 

I think your maybe off beam to think the clubs were just lazy?

 

Key would be to have better incentives for developing and retaining self grown academy talent. I think there seems to be a start with something that limits the salary allocated against the salary cap, no matter how much the salary is.  They should go further so that you gain significant advantage against salary cap for self developed academy players, say for a period of 5 years for an individual player, etc, anyway with more thought could come up with an approach that is a major incentives.  Could even extend to players from your academy playing in first team elsewhere and the academy producing clubs get some salary cap relief,

Edited by redjonn
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I must say that I have found all this bickering and petty points-scoring a bit too much over recent weeks. My Dad is bigger than your Dad syndrome is tiresome.

 

All the while the NRL clubs are eyeing up our top talent and creaming them off at will. Who can blame players for wanting to jump ship from a competition that settles on a format with 3 weeks to go to the season opener. Stability brings success - if you were thinking about putting money into club RL at the moment you would definitely need nerves of steel.

Edited by Scubby
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I must say that I have found all this bickering and petty points-scoring a bit too much over recent weeks. My Dad is bigger than your Dad syndrome is tiresome.

 

All the while the NRL clubs are eyeing up our top talent and creaming them off at will. Who can blame players for wanting to jump ship from a competition that settles on a format with 3 weeks to go to the season opener. Stability brings success - if you were thinking about putting money into club RL at the moment you would definitely need nerves of steel.

What is so galling is its perpetuated by our own media.......... we hark on about national media not giving us a fair ride.  But our own RL press are continually decisive  and undermining.  They say they care and its their duty blah blah blah.  They could do much more to SELL the sport to different groups!  More stuff on players lifestyles, stuff that appeals to the younger fan.

I would like our Media to become the next big expansion area and bee more independent.   Instead of a couple of blokes in brighouse running lifestyle business off the back of our sport. 

 

There are some very good modern RL Jurnos out their, they are been held back bye their dinosaur editors.  And that is from the horses mouth so as to speak and why many are turning to creating web based media themselves.  We are on the cusp of a media revolution in League and the old guard no it !!!

 

Edited by petesmithfan

VIVA THE FEVOLUTION

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