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Bradford AGAIN (Merged threads)

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Scubby, Probably because I did not go to University and left school 60 years ago.Just shows that the memory goes as you get older. I actually went to Grammar School, in those days it was G.C.E,s not what they are now,is it G.C S E s or something like that. I actually achieved 3 G.C.E s , English, Maths and Geography. I will take that as a compliment that I posted a 567 word paragraph,or maybe not.

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What figure is that, double the figure of what,please enlighten me. I am sure Johnny can tell me how many full time players there are at Dewsbury. Maybe then I can double it and work out how many there will be at Bradford.

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9 hours ago, fairfolly said:

Northern Eel , I would not profess to know if the £500,000 debt has been run up over the last two years as same as the "keyboard warriors" I am not on the Board of Directors at the Bulls so I am not privy to how the money has been lost. I would however hazard a guess,and it is a guess, that a vast majority of the debt has accrued because of the running costs of Odsal.But I am sure somebody will post on here that they know.Anyway off for my game of golf now. 

It was that first year - 2017. Chalmers took over in January. Central funding was £75k and Odsal rent was £72k. He was asked to honour all the ST’s sold so had very little income. I wouldn’t be surprised if he racked up £500k debt in 2017 and has just maintained that for the next 2 years, without being able to pay it back.

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That seems as it could possibly be the correct assessment.I would think over the next couple of years he must have subsidised the club to keep the debt at that level. That is possibly the reason he was owed a six figure sum that he had actually put into the club,not necessarily all his money,possibly money belonging to Graham Lowe. As I have posted I have no idea but I willl take Mr. Sawyers word for it.

The fans of Dewsbury seem to have nothing but good words for Mark Sawyer, so it seems he is a genuine guy.

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1 hour ago, fairfolly said:

Scubby, Probably because I did not go to University and left school 60 years ago.Just shows that the memory goes as you get older. I actually went to Grammar School, in those days it was G.C.E,s not what they are now,is it G.C S E s or something like that. I actually achieved 3 G.C.E s , English, Maths and Geography. I will take that as a compliment that I posted a 567 word paragraph,or maybe not.

Previously you have posted on other threads that you would stop posting, and that you had had enough, I think that you should do as you as you said, some of your posts in this thread to my mind are embarrassing. You have castigated other people as no nothings, gossip mongering , without inside information, etc. You have admitted in this thread that you are just a "fan", without any real insight/information into Bradford Bulls situation. Please, enjoy your life in Spain, life is too short for trying to defend the actions of other people, from Caisley on, who do not deserve it. 

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6 hours ago, fairfolly said:

Tongue in cheek Gav. You know as well as I do that the vast majority of posters on this forum are not happy unless they are complaining about owners,players, referees,linesmen,anything,unless of course it is their club that is getting the benefit.Without trying to be patronising Gav. I can honestly say you are one of the few who I have never seen belittling anything to do with R.L..I fully understand your point about cynicism concerning the Bulls,I have been a Northern/Bulls supporter since 1950 so believe me I have seen everything concerning the club.Maybe I am one of the unfortunate ones who prefers to give somebody the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. Just one of the last posts is basically calling Mr. Sawyer a liar for saying that Andrew Chalmers is owed a six figure sum which he has wavered,Where has the money come from,he asks,quite probably out of his own family money,why should he have to explain that to anybody,never mind a gossip monger.Then he goes on to say that Halifax are owed monies from the Bulls when once again Mr. Sawyer has quite clearly stated that all clubs except one have been paid.That club is not Halifax,so once again he is calling Mr. Sawyer a liar. One states that next years funds from the R.F.L. have already been paid when once again Mr.Sawyer categorically denies that it is not the case,once again casting aspersions on Mr.Sawyers honesty.So you might possibly see Gav.,that even though the Bulls are far from innocent in all the shenanigans that have gone on in the last 10 years to call a person who is willingly to put his money and his reputation on the line should not be treated the way he is.I doubt very much though that he will take much notice of gossips who have nothing better to do with their lives only moan,moan,moan.On a separate note Gav. it is good to see your club is almost ready to move to your new ground and hopefully I will be able to pay a visit there when I am back in the  U.K. after Christmas. That is if Brexit will allow me Gav..

I get part of that was aimed at me but I can't remember recently saying that Fax were still the team owed money. We were one of the teams owed money though from the cup tie before it all started unravelling and because it was causing cash flow problems for Halifax as well I believe the RFL paid Halifax with an advancement of Bradfords central funding from this season.

So back to AC who when appointed in front of someone who was deemed more suitable by the adminstrator we saw a lot of digging which suggested that AC was not really the money man that most Bradford fans craved. So fast forward till now and we learn that AC has run up what is believed to be a high 6 figure debt helping out a team that he really does not have much affiliation to is shall we say just a tad far fetched. To then go further and say that obviously this could be proved as those figures would have to be shown in the accounts as loans from AC but as of yet the accounts are conspicuous by their abscence which is strange especially as its highly unlikley anyone would even dream about taking over the club without seeing those yet here we have people willing to take over a club that they could essentially get for nothing but instead take it over and despite player sales will start been hundreds of thousands of pounds in debt.

So the question again would be why do it? Especially given that it can't officially go through until all the creditors have been spoken to and agreed a deal. Has that actually happened? Is that what the delay is for? If its not gone through who is stripping the assets and which creditors are getting paid? Do any of those creditors have direct links with any of the people taking over?

Im not doing this to poo stir, I have a lot of friends who are Bradford fans and I love our derbys, Bradford fans have been screwed over time and time again and its not now when they should be burying their heads in the sand its now time for them to be asking tough questions because it looks like rinse and repeat to me and this time its more about covering tracks than it is about protecting the future of Bradford Bulls.

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Maybe someone can go back through the posts on here and find the ones where Bradford fans thought Chalmers had a lot of money to throw at the club. I certainly don’t remember that being the case.

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7 hours ago, fairfolly said:

Tongue in cheek Gav. You know as well as I do that the vast majority of posters on this forum are not happy unless they are complaining about owners,players, referees,linesmen,anything,unless of course it is their club that is getting the benefit.Without trying to be patronising Gav. I can honestly say you are one of the few who I have never seen belittling anything to do with R.L..I fully understand your point about cynicism concerning the Bulls,I have been a Northern/Bulls supporter since 1950 so believe me I have seen everything concerning the club.Maybe I am one of the unfortunate ones who prefers to give somebody the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. Just one of the last posts is basically calling Mr. Sawyer a liar for saying that Andrew Chalmers is owed a six figure sum which he has wavered,Where has the money come from,he asks,quite probably out of his own family money,why should he have to explain that to anybody,never mind a gossip monger.Then he goes on to say that Halifax are owed monies from the Bulls when once again Mr. Sawyer has quite clearly stated that all clubs except one have been paid.That club is not Halifax,so once again he is calling Mr. Sawyer a liar. One states that next years funds from the R.F.L. have already been paid when once again Mr.Sawyer categorically denies that it is not the case,once again casting aspersions on Mr.Sawyers honesty.So you might possibly see Gav.,that even though the Bulls are far from innocent in all the shenanigans that have gone on in the last 10 years to call a person who is willingly to put his money and his reputation on the line should not be treated the way he is.I doubt very much though that he will take much notice of gossips who have nothing better to do with their lives only moan,moan,moan.On a separate note Gav. it is good to see your club is almost ready to move to your new ground and hopefully I will be able to pay a visit there when I am back in the  U.K. after Christmas. That is if Brexit will allow me Gav..

I can't be bothered to read all the posts but Mark Sawyer has been nothing but honest and straightforward over the last 16/17 years at Dewsbury. If he says something, you can believe it.

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10 minutes ago, fairfolly said:

Blues Ox, 

                   Read his statement this morning in the T&A. Then believe it or do not.You will get the answers to most of your questions there.

It really doesn't answer much unless Im reading the wrong article. If anything if I were a Bradford fan Id be even more worried after reading that. Still won't be long until those accounts are available.........

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1 hour ago, The Blues Ox said:

It really doesn't answer much unless Im reading the wrong article. If anything if I were a Bradford fan Id be even more worried after reading that. Still won't be long until those accounts are available.........

What are you expecting to find in a set of abridged small company accounts?

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14 hours ago, TrueBull said:

It was that first year - 2017. Chalmers took over in January. Central funding was £75k and Odsal rent was £72k. He was asked to honour all the ST’s sold so had very little income. I wouldn’t be surprised if he racked up £500k debt in 2017 and has just maintained that for the next 2 years, without being able to pay it back.

If he knew there was a lack of income why did he continue with a full time operation surely he needed to cut back so outgoings matches income?

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17 hours ago, fairfolly said:

I have to admit I am one who is happy to give the benefit of the doubt to anybody who is willing to put their money and their reputations on the line.I also admit that it could backfire, I have not known any of the previous owners personally but I did know somebody who worked for Green who did say he was not to be trusted,he was right,I was wrong. As for Khan, I did know he was a dodgy character as it was general knowledge concerning his business ventures and his accomplice who bankrupt up to six companies,It seems his accomplice was basically a professional conman.added to that I also knew the councillor involved with the debacle.I thought he was a genuine bloke,and still do, but he was conned into the venture and was still regretting being conned to this day.So, no,I was not convinced by this chap. As far as the new takeover, once again I do not know Mr,Sawyer but base my opinion on the fact that he is the Chairman at Dewsbury and has been for a while,so I think he can be trusted, I may be wrong but I doubt it very much. As for Nigel Wood,I have known him since his school days. My son was in the same form as he was and I have met and spoke to him several times.I have not agreed with lots of the decisions he has made and I think he knows that but he is paid to make the decisions not me.As for some people saying he has not got any money, they do not know what they are talking about, Nigel Wood is not short of money by a long way and once again it has been common knowledge for a couple of years now by "people in the know" that he was destined to be involved at Bradford in the not to distant future.As for Andrew Chalmers,I know nothing about the fellow only his past involving Salford and N.Z.R.L but whether he has the money or not I do not know. However I will take Mr Sawyers word for it that he was owed a six figure sum which he has waived. Why would Mr Sawyer say that if it was untrue. So ,no I have not been in agreement with all that has gone on at Bradford in the last 10 years,far from it, but I will take the word of Mr Sawyer before the guesswork of a lot of the posters on here. And just to contradict the idiot who has posted that Bradford will be a full time team next year,absolute nonsense, John Kear has been given a basic budget,no way in this world can any club run a full time squad,a reserve team, an academy and a womens team on a basic budget. What the budget is has still not been announced but I can assure the poster that there will not be 10 players on £25000 per season has he implies. As far as Wolford is concerned,being a Bulls supporter he never has a good word to say about the club, knocks the players and the coach,so why he calls himself a supporter I do not know. And as I have said in previous posts I have supported, sponsored, been a Vice President etc,etc, since 1950 so believe me I have seen it all at Bradford.

Just one point: despite what many have said on here I haven't seen any statement saying that AC has "waived" the debt that lies on Bradford's books. It has been said that he is not currently pursuing it but that is not the same at all. No business person would waive such a debt, even if only for tax reasons.


Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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16 hours ago, fairfolly said:

What figure is that, double the figure of what,please enlighten me. I am sure Johnny can tell me how many full time players there are at Dewsbury. Maybe then I can double it and work out how many there will be at Bradford.

Testing out your O Level maths here FF but there are no FT players at Dewsbury. So, twice zero is....................?


Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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3 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Testing out your O Level maths here FF but there are no FT players at Dewsbury. So, twice zero is....................?

................ less than the number of FT players already signed up by Bradford.

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17 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Just one point: despite what many have said on here I haven't seen any statement saying that AC has "waived" the debt that lies on Bradford's books. It has been said that he is not currently pursuing it but that is not the same at all. No business person would waive such a debt, even if only for tax reasons.

From the piece in the T & A it mentions somethig about sponsorship so maybe he has wiped it out in exchange for free sponsorship. I doubt that would be allowed to happen but it would raise more questions if it did. Nigel Wood allowing his good pal AC to advertise for free in exchange for wiping out an alleged 6 figure debt........

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17 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Testing out your O Level maths here FF but there are no FT players at Dewsbury. So, twice zero is....................?

Its his English comprehension that needs testing since my post clearly referred to 1st team budget.

I also notice that it's been reported that MS has stated that the Bulls will get ca£300k central funding next year. That doesn't sound right since before the restructure 5th only got about £250k and amounts have supposedly gone down?

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14 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

From the piece in the T & A it mentions somethig about sponsorship so maybe he has wiped it out in exchange for free sponsorship. I doubt that would be allowed to happen but it would raise more questions if it did. Nigel Wood allowing his good pal AC to advertise for free in exchange for wiping out an alleged 6 figure debt........

Apparently Nige isn't the largest shareholder. Numbers published elsewhere are that MS has 24% and is the biggest (new?) shareholder, the Woods family 33% (so presumably Nige <24%), leaving 43% or so that are probably still owned by Orcas Rugby League.

Edited by Les Tonks Sidestep

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5 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Apparently Nige isn't the largest shareholder. Numbers published elsewhere are that MS has 24% and is the biggest (new?) shareholder, the Woods family 33% (so presumably Nige <24%), leaving 57% or so that are probably still owned by Orcas Rugby League.

So not really a change of ownership at the moment then?

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13 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

So not really a change of ownership at the moment then?

Biggest shareholder appears unchanged, although no longer holding a majority - ca43% (typing quickly while pretending to work doesn't help my maths). The 'consortium' do seem to hold a controlling stake between them.

Edited by Les Tonks Sidestep

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34 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Apparently Nige isn't the largest shareholder. Numbers published elsewhere are that MS has 24% and is the biggest (new?) shareholder, the Woods family 33% (so presumably Nige <24%), leaving 43% or so that are probably still owned by Orcas Rugby League.

Mick Gledhill claiming that the numbers quoted in the article I'm referring to are wrong. Now it is MG so who knows?

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Johnny, Quote from Andrew Chalmers statement ,

 

                      " it is also the reason I have WAIVED monies owed to me and provided sponsorship to the club".

Once again you can believe it or not, .He also states he can not believe why people believe everything on Twitter and on the Rugby League Forum is fact when it is nowhere near fact. Now I would like to read where it has been reported that Mark Sawyer has claimed that Bradford will get £300000 from the R.F.L. next season or has that come from twitter. 

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1 hour ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Mick Gledhill claiming that the numbers quoted in the article I'm referring to are wrong. Now it is MG so who knows?

He may be a secret shareholder ready to fund them back to SL

 

 

 

 

or maybe not 😜

Edited by Spidey

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4 minutes ago, fairfolly said:

Johnny, Quote from Andrew Chalmers statement ,

 

                      " it is also the reason I have WAIVED monies owed to me and provided sponsorship to the club".

Once again you can believe it or not, .He also states he can not believe why people believe everything on Twitter and on the Rugby League Forum is fact when it is nowhere near fact. Now I would like to read where it has been reported that Mark Sawyer has claimed that Bradford will get £300000 from the R.F.L. next season or has that come from twitter. 

OK FF, I hadn't seen this quote previously. Why anyone would actually waive a debt rather than leaving it with a pledge not to call it in baffles me, but prety well everything assocaited with this saga baffles me, so nothing new there then.

For information MS doesn't do social media etc.

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Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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