The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Dave T 18,546]

20 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

156 pages on here, most hits on total RL ever, decent sky tv ratings when Toronto are on, SBW in Super League, and your saying Toronto are not worth as much to Super League as Wakefield and Salford? 

Its not good business sense refusing Toronto an equal share because it results in them leaving the game and been replaced by a similar club to Wakefield and Salford.

Super League got all of that without spending a penny on Canada expansion. Just stop for a second and think about that. We constantly complain that we don't get enough outside investment that is exactly what we got here, somebody else paid for it. 

 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield 2,360]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Super League got all of that without spending a penny on Canada expansion. Just stop for a second and think about that. We constantly complain that we don't get enough outside investment that is exactly what we got here, somebody else paid for it. 

 

If we give Toronto an equal share of the sky money it will still be outside investment paying for the likes of SBW, he’ll just have a SL team to play for in 2021.

[Dave T 18,546]

18 minutes ago, Scubby said:

TWP are very much to blame IMO. Their model was vulnerable to being cocooned in the UK and then essentially commuting to Canada. So effectively it made their business seasonal. It has worked in the short term (and in the lower leagues) but it should have been the reverse model to grow the business so players, coaches, key staff etc. are accessible to the Canadian end much more.

The annoying part from my point of view is that SL was effectively given this extra dimension to its business for free (which created amazing publicity and excitement) and still wanted to treat it like dog ####. Umming and arrring in October before saying okay you can be promoted was a clear example of this. That is why the extra share of Sky money is important because all the clubs wanted to do was look at the short term fix rather than the long term benefits. Now they can't see that Toronto not being there in 2021 could cost them even more in future TV deals.

On a pure business level Scubby, we could either pay a couple of million pound a year to contribute to running a team in Canada, or we can secure external funding to pay for it for us.

I find it odd that people are so determined to spend money they don't need to. TWP were a well funded operation (they have spent millions so far), until Coronavirus came along. 

[Man of Kent 7,860]

30 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

See ya.

But the Championship won't survive without those from the better supported clubs, with due respect London are not one of those do you will do just fine.

I’m no one-eyed fan, Harold. I’m not even a London fan.

Licensing will come back now, I think it’s inevitable. 

[Dave T 18,546]

1 minute ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

If we give Toronto an equal share of the sky money it will still be outside investment paying for the likes of SBW, he’ll just have a SL team to play for in 2021.

What would we get for the £2m?

[Scubby 11,970]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

On a pure business level Scubby, we could either pay a couple of million pound a year to contribute to running a team in Canada, or we can secure external funding to pay for it for us.

I find it odd that people are so determined to spend money they don't need to. TWP were a well funded operation (they have spent millions so far), until Coronavirus came along. 

It is not black or white, they could have ring fenced that money for anything that would have grown the business. 

In the end they decided to split it among themselves like a divvy up. They had the same choice with Bradford not getting TV money and did the same. Things won't change - even with an opportunity in front of their eyes.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Scubby

[The Rocket 1,486]

11 hours ago, The British Lion said:

Honestly. If RFL fail again in expansion teams, and vision (i appreciate its a hard time right now) I am done with RL regularly

 

I`ve felt that way over here in the past ( especially when the NRL have handed down ######-weak sanctions to players that continuously trash the games image) and then I try to watch another code.....

[fcl 344]

53 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

A real audience? We’re the 8000 Lamport regulars cardboard cut out? 

I maintain that the crowds were exaggerated to serve as an argument and legitimize the project.
Oriented shots, choice of camera layout, well-orchestrated communication. Everything was done to give the impression that the club was breaking records ...
It was very good attendance (probably around 5000) with free entries, shows around with the famous beer garden but we are far from the 8000 spectators on average.

[Scubby 11,970]

5 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I’m no one-eyed fan, Harold. I’m not even a London fan.

Licensing will come back now, I think it’s inevitable. 

How long are we giving him??  

[Eddie 4,179]

The relative silence from SL in this mess is staggering. I sometimes wonder if anyone is leading the game at all. 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield 2,360]

9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

What would we get for the £2m?

All that we get from giving Wakefield £2m and much much more

[Dave T 18,546]

4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

It is not black or white, they could have ring fenced that money for anything that would have grown the business. 

In the end they decided to split it among themselves like a divvy up. They had the same choice with Bradford not getting TV money and did the same. Things won't change - even with an opportunity in front of their eyes.

You won't get me arguing against that point, I do think we should be properly funding a central function, and this could have gone towards that. I'm not even against the principle of funding Toronto (and making it conditional on player development), but I'm just frustrated that people are bringing it full circle to bash the UK game here, when the main reasons for failure here are the decisions of TWP and the Coronavirus.

I mean let's be honest here, since this announcement, people have just got angry against the RFL and SL (even McCrone on Twitter), putting TWP and Coronavirus in the background. It is no less than propoganda. 

[Dave T 18,546]

3 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

All that we get from giving Wakefield £2m and much much more

Worst business case I have heard. 

This is the issue - whenever this question is asked, a tangible benefit is never presented. 

But hey, slag off Wakefield, that'll please the crowd. Let's trash our own game, history, clubs, players, development etc. but don't dare say a word against TWP.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Dave T

[Dave T 18,546]

5 minutes ago, Eddie said:

The relative silence from SL in this mess is staggering. I sometimes wonder if anyone is leading the game at all. 

What are you hoping to be said? They released a joint statement.

[Scubby 11,970]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You won't get me arguing against that point, I do think we should be properly funding a central function, and this could have gone towards that. I'm not even against the principle of funding Toronto (and making it conditional on player development), but I'm just frustrated that people are bringing it full circle to bash the UK game here, when the main reasons for failure here are the decisions of TWP and the Coronavirus.

I mean let's be honest here, since this announcement, people have just got angry against the RFL and SL (even McCrone on Twitter), putting TWP and Coronavirus in the background. It is no less than propoganda. 

I watched how the NRL dealt with the virus and the Warriors and then this. The integrity of the NRL competition was put above everything, they threw millions to accommodate the Warriors because they couldn't play in their home country. The rest of the clubs were grateful that the Warriors sacrificed things to give the NRL a season.

What did we do to support the 2 overseas teams in Catalans and TWP? I understand Catalans wanted to play at home to crowds (because they could) and were met with resistance. TWP wanted support in a once in a lifetime crises and SL let them walk away. We get the August competition we deserve.

The NRL was 100% about protecting its brand. SL is self-preservation.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Scubby

[Dunbar 10,059]

There have been some good parts to the Toronto experiment and some poorly managed one's.

But here are a few things that I would like to point out.

* While we chat away on here about what is best for our sport and how great it is, someone else was spending millions of pounds of his own money bringing professional Rugby League (and biggest rugby name on the planet) to a new continent.

* Thousands of Canadians were supporting their team in the lower divisions and they were just about to experience the top level of the sport in Northern hemisphere.

* All of this has been disrupted by a global pandemic which has massively impacted the global economy and some sectors (leisure and travel being among them) in an unprecedented fashion.

For anyone saying how the Wolfpack should be punished, I will be delighted to hear you explain how you have managed your multi million pound international enterprise through this period.

Lives are being lost.  Livelihoods are being lost.  Let's grab a little perspective here.

[Tommygilf 7,786]

20 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I’m no one-eyed fan, Harold. I’m not even a London fan.

Licensing will come back now, I think it’s inevitable. 

I've said before, fans of ambitious Championship clubs should be rooting for Toronto in SL. They are the flag bearers for lower league RL in the top flight. 

Now, one of the conclusions some cynical Super League clubs will make is that it doesn't matter how much money a Championship club has, they won't make a super league team.

[The Lad 124]

I feel sorry for Toronto Wolfpack but it seams a lot of people blaming covid for 100% of this. Why?, they were late paying their players for months there were problems way before the pandemic. I know there is no promotion and relegation this year but is there a decision on whether they can go straight back to super league in 2021?, they shouldn't how can a team that didn't finish the season be allowed to stay in the league?. Send them back to championship with point points penalty.

[Hela Wigmen 2,802]

4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I watched how the NRL dealt with the virus and the Warriors and then this. The integrity of the NRL competition was put above everything, they threw millions to accommodate the Warriors because they couldn't play in their home country. The rest of the clubs were grateful that the Warriors sacrificed things to give the NRL a season.

What did we do to support the 2 overseas teams in Catalans and TWP? I understand Catalans wanted to play at home to crowds (because they could) and were met with resistance. TWP wanted support in a once in a lifetime crises and SL let them walk away. We get the August competition we deserve.

The NRL was 100% about protecting its brand. SL is self-preservation.

You’re well aware that you’re comparing two vastly different organisations, don’t you? I’m not really sure they’re comparable at all. 

I’m also unaware of NZ Warriors failing to pay wages on time or at all for the previous 6-7 months, failing to pay people on time in the past and stumbling from one visa issue to the next, amongst a list of issues. 

[Harry Stottle 4,227]

38 minutes ago, Damien said:

Why wont it survive? All clubs need to do is live within their means. Currently clubs near the bottom of the table, some of which get pretty low crowds anyway, already survive on a fraction of the money that the clubs that finish towards the top of the table get.

Fine, lets see how it all pans out then.

[Robin Evans 4,727]

1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

What about if your team is at the top table? You’ll do nothing and you’ll still attend. 

We've done this argument over and over ten years ago.

If licencing returns.... I'm done. Thats it. I'm through with the game.... regardless of where my team sit.

The licencing argument has been done to death.... im not in any mood for further protraction

[Scubby 11,970]

Just now, Hela Wigmen said:

You’re well aware that you’re comparing two vastly different organisations, don’t you? I’m not really sure they’re comparable at all. 

I’m also unaware of NZ Warriors failing to pay wages on time or at all for the previous 6-7 months, failing to pay people on time in the past and stumbling from one visa issue to the next, amongst a list of issues. 

How the NRL supported the Warriors will probably be kept in house and will have cost millions. SL needed its competition back asap. You get the competition back and deal with the fall out at the end of the season. People will not remember TWP dropping out in August/Sept, they will just see the gaps in the fixture list and Challenge Cup QFs with a bye in it. 

[Hela Wigmen 2,802]

Just now, Robin Evans said:

We've done this argument over and over ten years ago.

If licencing returns.... I'm done. Thats it. I'm through with the game.... regardless of where my team sit.

The licencing argument has been done to death.... im not in any mood for further protraction

You won’t be off. You’ll moan mercifully about it and still attend your club, if your a season ticket holder, as that’s what you’ve always done. 

[The Rocket 1,486]

4 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Toronto Wolfpack, a club that has cost the game £0,

That says it all.

What more can you ask from an expansionist venture?

[Eddie 4,179]

14 minutes ago, Dave T said:

What are you hoping to be said? They released a joint statement.

Just one statement, that leaves as many questions as it answers. If this was football, cricket or Union they’d be all over it.