Yorkshire decline ?

[owls]

Not sure if this has been covered before but looking at the league table the top Yorkshire team is 7th, has this ever happened before, what has gone wrong the Eastern side of the Pennines,

[Ovenden Grunt]

There's nowt up wi' us️

[The Hallucinating Goose]

What's gone wrong on the western side of the Pennines? All the French teams are above them in the table! 

[LeeF]

Either #TheGamesGone or the solution is to promote the Bulls to SL as that seems to be the default answer to most things. 

[Anita Bath]

Nowt wrong…yorkshire has found its rightful position.

[Whippet13]

The decline has been ongoing since 1485.

[OMEGA]

I think the original post was a genuine one and obviously I don’t mind the banter between East and West of the Pennines but the subject is in fact a very serious one.

There’s been a visible and measurable decline in participation right across the board, specifically in the strongholds of Yorkshire. Places like Castleford, Wakefield and Hull have seen a huge decline in Amateur Clubs and an alarming reduction in the number of teams run in the surviving Amateur clubs. Where Clubs would run teams at all age groups now it’s hit and miss with many of the age groups missing a team, for example, a club might run teams from U7s to U11s but no U12s or U14s and can only run an U15s because they’ve merged 2 teams from two different amateur clubs.

At the same time there’s been a similar reduction in Schools participation with some traditionally strong schools not playing any Rugby League at all.

We often talk about the TV contract and funding as the big issue in the game but no one seems to want to talk about the decline and the REAL participation numbers. It’s no good pretending that they’re OK by including the same Kid 3 times by using his/her participation at school, Amateur Club and Scholarship and pretending it’s 3 players.

In terms of funding, yes include PDRL, Wheelchair, Women’s and Girls and that’s all good but boys and men’s participation is drastically down over the last decade or two and it’s reaching a critical point. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by OMEGA

[froggie]

What a superb post.

[owls]

3 hours ago, OMEGA said:

I think the original post was a genuine one and obviously I don’t mind the banter between East and West of the Pennines but the subject is in fact a very serious one.

There’s been a visible and measurable decline in participation right across the board, specifically in the strongholds of Yorkshire. Places like Castleford, Wakefield and Hull have seen a huge decline in Amateur Clubs and an alarming reduction in the number of teams run in the surviving Amateur clubs. Where Clubs would run teams at all age groups now it’s hit and miss with many of the age groups missing a team, for example, a club might run teams from U7s to U11s but no U12s or U14s and can only run an U15s because they’ve merged 2 teams from two different amateur clubs.

At the same time there’s been a similar reduction in Schools participation with some traditionally strong schools not playing any Rugby League at all.

We often talk about the TV contract and funding as the big issue in the game but no one seems to want to talk about the decline and the REAL participation numbers. It’s no good pretending that they’re OK by including the same Kid 3 times by using his/her participation at school, Amateur Club and Scholarship and pretending it’s 3 players.

In terms of funding, yes include PDRL, Wheelchair, Women’s and Girls and that’s all good but boys and men’s participation is drastically down over the last decade or two and it’s reaching a critical point. 

Yes Omega, it was a genuine question,  i am half Yorkshire half Derbyshire myself, so no hate on Yorkshire, it just seems crazy that Yorkshires top side is in 7th,

Edited August 20, 2023 by owls

[tonyXIII]

I don't think it is strange or that it amounts to a conspiracy. It's simple statistics.

West of the Pennines, there are three teams competing. Warrington, Wigan and St. Helens. If one has a bad year, the other two still compete.

East of the Pennines, there is now only one team which regularly competes at the top of the table, Leeds. Apologies to my friends in West Hull, but FC only compete occasionally these days and Wakefield and Castleford are mid-table at best. Therefore, if Leeds have a bad year, there is no one to pick up the baton. Simple, really.

[Anita Bath]

7 hours ago, OMEGA said:

I think the original post was a genuine one and obviously I don’t mind the banter between East and West of the Pennines but the subject is in fact a very serious one.

There’s been a visible and measurable decline in participation right across the board, specifically in the strongholds of Yorkshire. Places like Castleford, Wakefield and Hull have seen a huge decline in Amateur Clubs and an alarming reduction in the number of teams run in the surviving Amateur clubs. Where Clubs would run teams at all age groups now it’s hit and miss with many of the age groups missing a team, for example, a club might run teams from U7s to U11s but no U12s or U14s and can only run an U15s because they’ve merged 2 teams from two different amateur clubs.

At the same time there’s been a similar reduction in Schools participation with some traditionally strong schools not playing any Rugby League at all.

We often talk about the TV contract and funding as the big issue in the game but no one seems to want to talk about the decline and the REAL participation numbers. It’s no good pretending that they’re OK by including the same Kid 3 times by using his/her participation at school, Amateur Club and Scholarship and pretending it’s 3 players.

In terms of funding, yes include PDRL, Wheelchair, Women’s and Girls and that’s all good but boys and men’s participation is drastically down over the last decade or two and it’s reaching a critical point. 

But 4 of top 6 in NCP are from Harry Ramsden’s county so nowt wrong in a general sense. And your points about participation, TV contracts etc apply equally to ther areas.

Its a phase the game is going through (long may it continue)

 

[gingerjon]

8 hours ago, LeeF said:

Either #TheGamesGone or the solution is to promote the Bulls to SL as that seems to be the default answer to most things. 

I miss the days when 2x10 was going to solve everything.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

3 hours ago, tonyXIII said:

I don't think it is strange or that it amounts to a conspiracy. It's simple statistics.

West of the Pennines, there are three teams competing. Warrington, Wigan and St. Helens. If one has a bad year, the other two still compete.

East of the Pennines, there is now only one team which regularly competes at the top of the table, Leeds. Apologies to my friends in West Hull, but FC only compete occasionally these days and Wakefield and Castleford are mid-table at best. Therefore, if Leeds have a bad year, there is no one to pick up the baton. Simple, really.

KR have just been one drop kick from winning the challenge cup 

I suspect FC are due a period of success and can see it happening soon 

[sam4731]

22 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I miss the days when 2x10 was going to solve everything.

@superten ... you have been summoned.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, sam4731 said:

@superten ... you have been summoned.

OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE

[tonyXIII]

41 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

KR have just been one drop kick from winning the challenge cup 

I suspect FC are due a period of success and can see it happening soon 

Well done to both finalists! But you are still among the 'lesser lights' from either side of the hills, as are my lot, even after two finals in the last five years. It still leaves Wigan, Saint Helens, Warrington (except this year, it seems) and Leeds as the real title contenders.

As for your second paragraph, may I suggest a visit to Specsavers? 

Disclaimer. My posts offer no intended offence to anyone.

[LeeF]

42 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE

That’s a 7 day ban coming in for you if the Mods read this thread

[bigbaldnmad]

10 hours ago, OMEGA said:

We often talk about the TV contract and funding as the big issue in the game but no one seems to want to talk about the decline and the REAL participation numbers. It’s no good pretending that they’re OK by including the same Kid 3 times by using his/her participation at school, Amateur Club and Scholarship and pretending it’s 3 players.

First of all, a first class post, highlighting the issues the game has, and how we are burying our heads in the sand.

And what a surprise.

I have been arguing this for years, as long as we think the way to develop the game is from the top down we will fail. If the grass roots isn't given more attention then the pool for the pro game diminishes, as will the quality.

The funding for the grass roots has largely been left to community clubs augmenting any income with grants from sport England, which was reduced significantly (or was when I was treasurer at my local community club) leading up to the Olympics in 2012, and subsequently in favour of legacy Olympic sports. While there is the current drive towards funding  girls football, I sense anyone expecting RL to get an equal slice of the cake will, I feel, be sadly disappointed.

So, baring in mind the academy structure isn't open to all clubs, the biggest ones (Saints, Wigan, Warrington and Leeds) attract all the best talent into their structures, and only convert a smallish  proportion to SL  standards. Frequently we hear the comments, Leigh lad, Halifax lad, Fev lad.... all teams that don't have an academy structure to bring local lads though.

The game is dying, and to pretend that expanding to big cities will get kids in Wakey, Cas, Fev and Hull, away from social media and playing the game is farcical those kids want local hero's, not just a team name.

I said RL will die, as a meaningful sport in this country, within 20 years if we don't change. I fear we may not have that long.

[bobbruce]

4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE

It’s fine I think it’s like Candyman and you have to say it 3 times. 

[Wolford6]

Today,  the Bulls and Newcastle had players with 41 and 40 on their shirts. Newcastle couldn't raise a team for the programmed reserves fixture.

The Bulls have had a steady stream of loan signings, with Leeds semingly stipulating that their loanees had to play. We've done better under the temporary coaching recime but we are still buying new players in.

The Championship is getting as bad as Speedway with its "guest riders". For Bulls fans, Dual Registration stinks and the young kids we develop never get a game. How can you identify with a team when every week it's being propped up or diminished by journeymen maintaining their fitness and loanees who are inferior to our own  young kids?

None of the incomers come from Bradford; a city with a 500,000 population. The club gave away 15,000 tickets to schoolkids but they don't turn up ... presumably because no adult wants to pay ~£20 to accompany them.

The ground is a wreck; the pitch isn't fit for Superleague. The Council owns the ground but rash expenditure has nearly exhausted City Hall's financial reserves. The current regime is building secondary schools without playing fields.

The Government is unlikely to fund a new stadium, especially not by handing money directly to Bradford Council. Going to Bradford City didn't work previously and City pay £1million rent per annum to their ground's owner ... we probably couldn't afford our share of the rent.

The only way forward has to be to pool resources with another club ... we bring an academy of really good young players and a minimum 3000 fans and they have a stadium. Halifax or Huddersfield would be the obvious options.

Neither the current state of the club, nor its foreseeable future does the sport of Rugby League any favours.

 

[GeordieSaint]

Wigan, Saints, Warrington and Leigh are well run rugby clubs, with good facilities, strong foundations (at least with the first 3), and relatively forward thinking and pragmatic leadership. This has bred success on the field. How many of the Yorkshire clubs can say the same? 

Salford are the outlier West of the Pennines but have got it right on the field. 

[Agbrigg]

I live in Wakey and to be honest I have no knowledge of the state of local amateur clubs in my area. However I do know that many have disappeared during my time. I also know that many schools that used to play the game no longer participate.

Regarding the junior setups from what people are saying the numbers attending are obviously declining. However when I get around the place especially on Sundays I see huge amounts of kids on football fields. I also drive past Sandal Rugby Union club on Sunday mornings and the amount of young kids turning up there is very impressive. So other sports seem to be doing things right with junior participation. 

[sam4731]

10 hours ago, bobbruce said:

It’s fine I think it’s like Candyman and you have to say it 3 times. 

@superten @superten @superten

No regrets

[17 stone giant]

12 hours ago, bigbaldnmad said:

as long as we think the way to develop the game is from the top down we will fail. If the grass roots isn't given more attention then the pool for the pro game diminishes, as will the quality.

I disagree slightly with your first sentence. I think it has to be both, but if I look at other sports like rugby union, cricket, and even to a certain extent football, it's getting it right at the top end that generates the money that allows you to do what you want at grass roots level.

If you don't make the most of things at the top end, you can have all the plans you want for grass roots, but there's no money there to do anything.

[muckymunksy]

Yorkshire clubs stick to salary cap Lancashire clubs pay cleaners 100k a year.