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12 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

See you all next year when we'll again enter some random bloke from the pub singing a rubbish song and then cry politics when he doesn't do well. 

Than a load of plastic clad nobodies who couldn't sing a truly rubbish song ( if that's what it could be called ) 

It is the Eurovision SONG contest 

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As I have to listen to Radio 2 at work (not that bad sometimes) I have heard this song umpteen times and it's at best poor. 

It's not my cup of tea win lose or draw but every year the same argument is set out....'we need a stronger song... should take it more serious... political voting..Yadda yadda' And the next year it's exactly the same. 

The Brexit argument doesn't hold water either as the first zero points one was years back in the early 00's. 

IMO it's terrible but if people enjoy it, fair enough. 

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57 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

The Brexit argument doesn't hold water either as the first zero points one was years back in the early 00's

I think this is the first double zero, though, as the separate jury and public vote announcements were only introduced 2 or 3 years ago.

Edited by Futtocks

"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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54 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

I think this is the first double zero, though, as the separate jury and public vote announcements were only introduced 2 or 3 years ago.

Thanks, I wasn't even aware such a thing existed. If I was involved with the uk set up I'd definitely be taking my bat and ball home. 

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2 hours ago, Johnoco said:

As I have to listen to Radio 2 at work 

try listening to boom instead- loads of radio2 listeners are jumping ship due to them playing more and more pap pop not to mention their presenters knowing naff all about music 

did the bloke who invented the phrase "one hit wonder" invent anything else?

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Who exactly is responsible for picking our entries? Is it a consistent team, or have we chopped and changed because whoever it is it clearly isn't working. Since we got our first nul points in 2003, we have finished in the top-half of the draw twice. Our previous worst entry was 16th/24.

In those 18 years, we've come last 5 times and in the bottom 5 11 times. I'm hearing a lot of lazy analysis blaming it on Brexit, but 8 of those times were pre-Brexit. The stark reality is that if we had to qualify the final, we almost never would.

This is actually part the reason for our extremely bad showing in the final. 21 of those songs have had to qualify to get there, meaning they have to have at least some connection with the audience. This process has separated out the other worst songs. I don't think it's coincidence that 3 of the big 5 were in the bottom 5 last night and that the semi-finals were introduced in 2004, coinciding with our terrible period.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Johnoco said:

As I have to listen to Radio 2 at work (not that bad sometimes) I have heard this song umpteen times and it's at best poor. 

It's not my cup of tea win lose or draw but every year the same argument is set out....'we need a stronger song... should take it more serious... political voting..Yadda yadda' And the next year it's exactly the same. 

The Brexit argument doesn't hold water either as the first zero points one was years back in the early 00's. 

IMO it's terrible but if people enjoy it, fair enough. 

I used to be in a pop band, and actually knew one of the guys in our infamous 2003 entry. I also happen to quite like a lot of the songs in Eurovision, but I genuinely can't remember the last time I actually liked a British entry. I've thought it was OK before, but there's never been one I've thought was a really good song.

I think we do take it seriously, but whoever is responsible for picking the artists are so out of touch with Eurovision it's almost laughable. How the most successful musical country in Europe can't find a decent or credible artist when its charts are full of decent and credible artists is somewhat bemusing.

Look at our last two/three entries, are they in any way representative of the British music scene of any genre?

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16 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Who exactly is responsible for picking our entries?

Over the years, we've had 11 different formats, ranging from public vote to panel selection. Of course, the initial shortlist is down to a panel. Currently, it is an internal selection process, by a panel combining BBC selections and people from the record company BMG, who get to sign the UK sacrificial lamb.

Edited by Futtocks

"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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1 minute ago, Futtocks said:

Over the years, we've had 11 different formats, ranging from public vote to panel selection. Of course, the initial shortlist is down to a panel. Currently, it is an internal selection process, by a panel combining BBC selections and people from the record company BMG, who get to sign the UK selection.

Whoever does it is failing and it needs to be given to somebody else. The stark reality is that if we had to qualify, we might have only made the final 2/3 times in the last 18 years.

Last year's effort was also due to be by James Newman and the song was released but actually failed to chart in the British charts. So we went and gave him another crack!

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3 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Last year's effort was also due to be by James Newman and the song was released but actually failed to chart in the British charts. So we went and gave him another crack!

In almost every case, the artist who was due to represent their country in 2020's cancelled contest was given another go for 2021. Just a handful of countries ran a second "Song for Europe" competition.

Whether we send a good or a bad song to Eurovision 2022, let us at least make it memorable, even if it is memorably bad. James Newman's effort was almost totally forgettable.

"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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7 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Whoever does it is failing and it needs to be given to somebody else. The stark reality is that if we had to qualify, we might have only made the final 2/3 times in the last 18 years.

Last year's effort was also due to be by James Newman and the song was released but actually failed to chart in the British charts. So we went and gave him another crack!

I think a key area we get wrong every time - regardless of how good or bad the song is - is the staging. Compare the British entry in any recent year to literally any other performance in the final and we are light years behind. The same was true last night.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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8 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I think a key area we get wrong every time - regardless of how good or bad the song is - is the staging. Compare the British entry in any recent year to literally any other performance in the final and we are light years behind. The same was true last night.

Certainly the case. Technically, Eurovision is a song contest, not a performer or presentation contest. But the voting fans really don't give a toss and will reward the most entertaining entry, for whatever reason.

Even if it's a bit hokey, like the (rather gorgeous) Greek girl's green-screened backing dancers, which looked almost like a retro affectation.

Just letting the music speak for itself only works when you have a song that genuinely grabs people on its own merits. Salvador Sobral pulled off that for Portugal a few years ago, but he's the recent exception to the rule.

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"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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1 hour ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I used to be in a pop band, and actually knew one of the guys in our infamous 2003 entry. I also happen to quite like a lot of the songs in Eurovision, but I genuinely can't remember the last time I actually liked a British entry. I've thought it was OK before, but there's never been one I've thought was a really good song.

I think we do take it seriously, but whoever is responsible for picking the artists are so out of touch with Eurovision it's almost laughable. How the most successful musical country in Europe can't find a decent or credible artist when its charts are full of decent and credible artists is somewhat bemusing.

Look at our last two/three entries, are they in any way representative of the British music scene of any genre?

It reminds me of Labour after another election defeat and a promise of root and branch review. 

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In the global music scene, the contest does not matter one jot. Its merely a trivial side show at a huge circus.  The popular music scene is entirely dominated by US and UK performers, management, media etc. £££££ $$$$$  Yes, there are individual performers, groups  etc from other countries who are successful globally, but they represent a tiny proportion of the market. The ESC is a chance for no hopers to take the stage one day out of 365. Only one group from one country has ever gone on to greater things, and that only because they pointed out that "Napoleon did surrender."😀

The ESC is , though, great entertainment, something for everyone in there somewhere.  

To shed the Millwall shoulder chip, we need to be much more innovative. How about if for once we deliberately set out to lose rather than win? Maybe a Florence Foster Jenkins tribute, for example? Or a Tiny Tim sound-alike?  Or John Redwood singing the Welsh national anthem? 

Edited by JohnM
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“If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.” Zen Proverb

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12 hours ago, Futtocks said:

Certainly the case. Technically, Eurovision is a song contest, not a performer or presentation contest. But the voting fans really don't give a toss and will reward the most entertaining entry, for whatever reason.

Even if it's a bit hokey, like the (rather gorgeous) Greek girl's green-screened backing dancers, which looked almost like a retro affectation.

Just letting the music speak for itself only works when you have a song that genuinely grabs people on its own merits. Salvador Sobral pulled off that for Portugal a few years ago, but he's the recent exception to the rule.

I've been a little unfair in the past by saying we put an ugly bloke up singing an average song.

My point is basically that most other countries acknowledge the shallow advantage in using beautiful people. Greece and Bulgaria were two such examples.

It's amazing what a bit of eye candy can forgive!

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11 hours ago, JohnM said:

 

To shed the Millwall shoulder chip, we need to be much more innovative. How about if for once we deliberately set out to lose rather than win? Maybe a Florence Foster Jenkins tribute, for example? Or a Tiny Tim sound-alike?  Or John Redwood singing the Welsh national anthem? 

We should enter some old bloke singing a Jake Thackray song like On Again ! and just confuse the hell out of them. 
 

Then again we’d probably win as these trendy entertainment types would probably applaud it as postmodern irony with deep philosophical meaning. I’d love to see the Armenian jury get their heads around “it’s the tongue, the tongue, the tongue on a woman that ruins the job for me”.

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I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally

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11 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I've been a little unfair in the past by saying we put an ugly bloke up singing an average song.

My point is basically that most other countries acknowledge the shallow advantage in using beautiful people. Greece and Bulgaria were two such examples.

It's amazing what a bit of eye candy can forgive!

I don't know specifically about those countries but in a fair number of European countries the idea of (especially women) performers not being both stunningly attractive and using every inch of that attraction to the limit *at all times* just does not compute.

I'm a big fan. It's very empowering.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Amazon buys MGM - keep your eyes peeled for new content on Prime Video: https://variety.com/2021/digital/news/amazon-buys-mgm-studio-behind-james-bond-for-8-45-billion-1234980526/ 

"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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ITV4 have a blockbuster double-bill this afternoon, with 'The Sting' followed by 'The Towering Inferno'. Starting at 1pm.

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"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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I've only just caught up with last Monday's Inside No.9. A really good episode.

"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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5 hours ago, Futtocks said:

I've only just caught up with last Monday's Inside No.9. A really good episode.

the hotel one?

did the bloke who invented the phrase "one hit wonder" invent anything else?

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40 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

the hotel one?

Yes. I keep missing the actual broadcast, and catching up several days later.

"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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