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Return of Charity Shield/Origin


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Listened to Simon Johnson on the Forty 20 podcast this lunchtime and he suggested that the Charity Shield and some kind of Origin could be brought back as new events.

The CS would be an interesting game to take on the road,  but doesn't Yorkshire Lancs fail everything its reborn?

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The Charity Shield  was first staged on August 25th 1985 as an "event" between the League Champions (Hull KR) and Challenge Cup winners (Wigan) and was played  at the Douglas Bowl on the Isle of Man and was sponsored by the local brewery Okells as a curtain-raiser to the new season.

The game attracted a crowd of some 3,500 to the Bowl and the First Rodstock War of the Roses took place three weeks later at Central Park, Wigan.

The Charity Shield eventually moved away from the island and taken on the road -  Gateshead International Stadium was the first stopover as I recall - but the concept was killed off after ten years, coincidentally, I'm sure, with the arrival of Super League.  Which, did not find time for such diversiona attracting attendances of a few thousand.

The Wars of the Roses didn't last quite as long because Yorkshire, under the coaching of Peter Fox,who won all the four matches I believe seemed to take it far more seriously than the teams from the other side of the hill. A mixture of Cheshire, Lancashire and Cumbria was not quite the same!

 

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3 hours ago, RigbyLuger said:

Listened to Simon Johnson on the Forty 20 podcast this lunchtime and he suggested that the Charity Shield and some kind of Origin could be brought back as new events.

The CS would be an interesting game to take on the road,  but doesn't Yorkshire Lancs fail everything its reborn?

No thanks

Edited by The Future is League
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3 hours ago, RigbyLuger said:

Listened to Simon Johnson on the Forty 20 podcast this lunchtime and he suggested that the Charity Shield and some kind of Origin could be brought back as new events.

The CS would be an interesting game to take on the road,  but doesn't Yorkshire Lancs fail everything its reborn?

Now a preseason 9's tournament somewhere in Spain might spark the interest of players and fans alike. Especially those ex pats who live in Spain

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5 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

Now a preseason 9's tournament somewhere in Spain might spark the interest of players and fans alike. Especially those ex pats who live in Spain

I know I’m probably in the minority but I don’t see 9s as proper rugby league and I’m not really interested in it. Doing something in Spain would be good though, like having all the opening weekend games in Valencia - at Valencia or Levante’s ground. 

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If an Origin-style match/series was brought back, it can't just be a Yorkshire v Lancashire thing. That just ingrains the perceptions that people have of the game. We've all come across people from the other code jeering that RL is only played in 2 counties and 2 Australian states.

East v West is the best alternative I can think of right now. That gets London players on the pitch for East and Welsh ones for West, plus those who have various other UK places of origin.

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10 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

If an Origin-style match/series was brought back, it can't just be a Yorkshire v Lancashire thing. That just ingrains the perceptions that people have of the game. We've all come across people from the other code jeering that RL is only played in 2 counties and 2 Australian states.

East v West is the best alternative I can think of right now. That gets London players on the pitch for East and Welsh ones for West, plus those who have various other UK places of origin.

You're right that Yorks vs Lancs makes us look parochial, and it even suffers vs Aussie origin, where at least NSW and Queensland make up half the population. 

But East vs West won't catch on either - sport almost always needs identities that people have have real connection to. 

Of course, in the UK we potentially have something even better than origin - the home nations, just about the oldest sporting rivalries in the world. We should never give up on somehow trying to find a way to make that work. 

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3 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Now a preseason 9's tournament somewhere in Spain might spark the interest of players and fans alike. Especially those ex pats who live in Spain

Isn’t this actually rumoured to be happening? Sure it was mentioned on a French thread 

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8 hours ago, welshmagpie said:

Isn’t this actually rumoured to be happening? Sure it was mentioned on a French thread 

I saw that too. Did a bit of googling.

Valencia, assuming they exist in any meaningful form, signed up to the "Alicante 9s" which were (are?) due to take place in the first week of October. This was on Valencia's twitter and the Spanish rugby league twitter.

Can't find anything else with further details but then my clumsy googling keeps just bringing up deals for flying to Alicante.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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We play too many club games as it is and, as a result, can't seem to find any space for internationals. Why would we react to that by re-introducing a parochial fixture that excludes most of the country and has been tried and failed several times previously? Even worse, is to do this at a time when the game outside the heartlands feels like it is in serious peril.

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26 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I saw that too. Did a bit of googling.

Valencia, assuming they exist in any meaningful form, signed up to the "Alicante 9s" which were (are?) due to take place in the first week of October. This was on Valencia's twitter and the Spanish rugby league twitter.

Can't find anything else with further details but then my clumsy googling keeps just bringing up deals for flying to Alicante.

I’m sure it was ATLANTISMAN (Paul) and I’m sure he alluded to Girona with 12 SL clubs plus 4 French teams.

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Pretty sure I heard Johnson or Rimmer muttering something about East v West on a recent podcast, it won't work. No historical rivalry, no regional identity to build on, it would take away a slot for full internationals and the SL chairman will absolutely hate it and pull players like happened for the All stars this year as it'll be a mid-week game, which will be at a small stadium in front of 4k tucked away on Sky. Mad idea. Lancs v Yorks is marginally better, but not by much.

Get a proper International weekend on instead: Eng v France, Ireland v Jamaica, Wales v Scotland, plus equivalent womens & wheelchair at the same time and no Sky fixtures to compete against. Have a 9s run on the same weekend with the all stars in it (for whom the concept is ideal). Turn it into a full event/ festival weekend and then build on it annually. There is are loads of things they could do better than East/Yorks v West/Lancs. International, not regional, RL is the future.

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22 hours ago, Eddie said:

I know I’m probably in the minority but I don’t see 9s as proper rugby league and I’m not really interested in it. Doing something in Spain would be good though, like having all the opening weekend games in Valencia - at Valencia or Levante’s ground. 

I just mentioned it hoping it gets the name RUGBY LEAGUE out there in virgin Rugby League territory and is something different for the players, playing a 9's tournamount overseas and at the same time increasing their fitness and create some Rugby League interest for the ex pats and perhaps even the locals to look at.

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22 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

You're right that Yorks vs Lancs makes us look parochial, and it even suffers vs Aussie origin, where at least NSW and Queensland make up half the population. 

But East vs West won't catch on either - sport almost always needs identities that people have have real connection to. 

Of course, in the UK we potentially have something even better than origin - the home nations, just about the oldest sporting rivalries in the world. We should never give up on somehow trying to find a way to make that work. 

When will RL wake up and realise Lancs v Yorks is hugely parochial and dead? Even as a Warrington lad, I have zero affinity to support Lancashire. Est v West - who identifies with that in England?! No one.

Couldn't agree more @Toby Chopra The Home Nations is the way to go. Yearly championship between the Home Nations and France. I don't care if the home nations use heritage players for the time being so long as The RFL / Euro / International Federation comes up with a strategy to build these nations playing credibility. And big fat NO to England Knights being the included team for England. Genuine, top tier level comp. Use heritage players and build from there, yearly!

Then , use this comp as selection for Great Britain Selection for overseas tours..... oh wait, Union already had this sorted. Sad to say, we are so far behind our friends in Union. 

Edited by The British Lion
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19 minutes ago, The British Lion said:

When will RL wake up and realise Lancs v Yorks is hugely parochial and dead? Even as a Warrington lad, I have zero affinity to support Lancashire. Est v West - who identifies with that in England?! No one.

Couldn't agree more @Toby Chopra The Home Nations is the way to go. Yearly championship between the Home Nations and France. I don't care if the home nations use heritage players for the time being so long as The RFL / Euro / International Federation comes up with a strategy to build these nations playing credibility. And big fat NO to England Knights being the included team for England. Genuine, top tier level comp. Use heritage players and build from there, yearly!

Then , use this comp as selection for Great Britain Selection for overseas tours..... oh wait, Union already had this sorted. Sad to say, we are so far behind our friends in Union. 

Fully agree, but I always get the impression that the people responsible for running our game want to take the easy option. East v West or Yorkshire v Lancashire requires no real development or promotion in other areas of the UK. As you mentioned a Home Nations with France is the best way forward, no need to try and emulate State of Origin  

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On 18/09/2021 at 00:54, RigbyLuger said:

Listened to Simon Johnson on the Forty 20 podcast this lunchtime and he suggested that the Charity Shield and some kind of Origin could be brought back as new events.

The CS would be an interesting game to take on the road,  but doesn't Yorkshire Lancs fail everything its reborn?

York v Lancs is a failed concept.

Would a one off CS game played in Dublin, Cardiff or Glasgow or Edinburgh do anything to spread the Rugby League gospel?

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I'd quite like to see a proper 9s tournament involving all 3 divisions. It's something that if marketed correctly be something to bring everyone together over a couple of days.

It'd give non super League teams good exposure. 36 clubs so a pre tournament competition to get it down to 6 League one clubs. Straight knockout comp after that.

Edited by Rob Nash
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17 minutes ago, Rob Nash said:

I'd quite like to see a proper 9s tournament involving all 3 divisions. It's something that if marketed correctly be something to bring everyone together over a couple of days.

It'd give non super League teams good exposure. 36 clubs so a pre tournament competition to get it down to 6 League one clubs. Straight knockout comp after that.

Did you mean 8 League One clubs? 

Anyway, I'd love to see it over a Bank Holiday Weekend in Cardiff. 

It would be great. 

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This threads a bit early, usually only get this nonsense in November, though this year it was scheduled for December due to the World Cup.

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On 17/09/2021 at 19:45, The Future is League said:

To be honest i don't think a lot of players would be interested and would probably cry of with injuries

And that's the problem.

When it was last re launched they said anyone who didn't ay wouldn't be considered for GB/England selection. Year one was great, year two loads cried off and the Yorkshire loose forward had a stoner and didn't get selected, I think it was the Lancashire loose forward who didn't play who for selected. This was the death nail as all the top players then cried off making it anon event. This is my recollection anyway.

I've often thought an England knights version of fringe internationals would be more determined, or an u23s but clubs have to support it. Maybe played as a curtain raiser to the Autumn Internationals 

 

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