Sat 18th Feb: World Club Challenge: Penrith Panthers v St Helens KO 7:00 (UK Time) (Sky/C4)

[GUBRATS]

27 minutes ago, Eddie said:

A knock out cup doesn’t prove who the best team is, a league does.  It doesn’t mean the cup isn’t worthwhile though. 

So we can disregard every cup Wigan has won , and every GF they've won ? 

, Sounds good to me 

[Eddie]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So we can disregard every cup Wigan has won , and every GF they've won ? 

, Sounds good to me 

Yes I’d happily do that. 

[corvusxiii]

17 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I can hardly see a negative comment.  It is overwhelmingly positive stuff praising the game and Saints.

I do hope I'm not becoming a 'Busy Body' but I've been in 'communication' with the BBC moderaters after my comment was removed for being 'considered to be off-topic for the discussion'.

That is you can repeatedly have many comments removed from the Warrington v Leeds HYS but to comment on that is off-topic. Fair enough I suppose.

So Yes the WCC HYS was clear when I checked but that wasn't the case earlier with the usual suspects enjoying themselves.

Has an RL HYS been tidied up retrospectively? 

I sense a season full of Busy Bodyness hoving into vue!

 

[Tippytoe]

22 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Look I‘m bored now so won’t respond again. If other people on this forum think a one off game proves that the winning team is better than the losing team then fine, but I don’t. A season long league proves who the best team is, all teams can have off days and lose against weaker teams than them. That seems quite obvious to me, but maybe I’m wrong. 

St Helens won the challenge game and crowned best club team in world Rl good for them good for British Rl.

[bobbruce]

24 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Full Saints post-match press conference:

https://www.nrl.com/watch/matches/pre-season-trials/2023/round-2/st-helens-world-club-challenge/

Really enjoyed that thanks. 

[GUBRATS]

St Helens are officially the best club RL team in the World , until somebody else wins the WCC 

FACT 

Or The Kangaroos are not the best International RL team in the world , or Argentina , or any other sport

[Tippytoe]

23 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

The Saints won...they are the better side until they are toppled....they have the trophy....it is theirs until they are beaten for it.

St Helens have to win the Gf again to defend the wcc (which they probably will) but if not they can't be "beaten for it" it goes to the wcc 2014 winner.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

18 hours ago, Damien said:

I think today also showed yet again what a difference Roby would have made if he'd have made himself available for England at the World Cup. His quick pass and organisation is just on a different level.

Add Walmsley too with his go forward and Lomax with Williams in the halves and Welsby at full back and its a much stronger team (granted Wane may not have done that last bit).

We'd have made the final for sure with those 3 in...missed opportunity 

[StandOffHalf]

18 hours ago, DavidM said:

I’ll give one . Vossy said Scarsbrook - McCarthy twice .

I think that was the excitement getting to Vossy, haha.

[bobbruce]

4 hours ago, Szymala said:

That figure included the '76 Roosters (Easts) v Saints game which wasn't an official WCC (Saints weren't champions, Salford were).

It's 14-13 to us Poms now.

Technically Manly weren’t champions when they played Wigan they lost the grand final. So 13 all. 

[Mr Frisky]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

Look I‘m bored now so won’t respond again. If other people on this forum think a one off game proves that the winning team is better than the losing team then fine, but I don’t. A season long league proves who the best team is, all teams can have off days and lose against weaker teams than them. That seems quite obvious to me, but maybe I’m wrong. 

So you don't agree with the result of any sports World Cup final, or a tennis grand slam final, or snooker, darts, swimming, athletics etc etc...So Bolt wasn't the best sprinter in the world because he won 1 off finals??

Edited February 19, 2023 by Mr Frisky

[FearTheVee]

I don’t know why Eddie is getting so much heat for his view to be honest.

It’s perfectly reasonable to say both that Saints are the WCC winners and the better team on the day but still hold the view that the NRL is better than SL and/or Penrith Panthers are a better side than Saints.

[OMEGA]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

It proved that Saints were the better team on the day and are now world champions. If Penrith had won it wouldn’t have proved they’re better than Saints either - one game doesn’t prove that, which you know dkw, so I don’t know what point you’re trying to make. 

What ridiculous psychobabble 

Someone go tell Tyson Fury that he’s not the Heavyweight Champion of the World, he was just a bit better than Wilder on the day

[Mr Frisky]

3 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

I don’t know why Eddie is getting so much heat for his view to be honest.

It’s perfectly reasonable to say both that Saints are the WCC winners and the better team on the day but still hold the view that the NRL is better than SL and/or Penrith Panthers are a better side than Saints.

So Penrith arnt the best team in the NRL as they only won a 1 off GF?

[GeordieSaint]

3 hours ago, JohnM said:

Alex Murphy by miles 

There’s no doubt Murphy was a great. But I disagree he’s the best Saint. His record doesn’t compare to Roby’s. But more interestingly, starting to see more and more from the generation who has seen them both say Roby is the Saints GOAT…

Edited February 19, 2023 by GeordieSaint

[Dunbar]

Roby's record of excellence at the highest level for so long is superb.

But I have to say, if I had to pick a 13 of Saints or even Great Britain players to win a game I would have Keiron Cunningham at 9.  At his best, he was almost unplayable. 

Roby on the bench though!

Edited February 19, 2023 by Dunbar

[bobbruce]

1 minute ago, GeordieSaint said:

There’s no doubt Murphy was a great. But I disagree. His record doesn’t compare to Roby’s. But more interestingly, starting to see more and more from the generation who has seen them both say Roby is the Saints GOAT…

This won’t be popular at the minute but if there was a one off game to win and you could pick any players I’d still pick Cunningham at 9. What I think Roby has done is be the most consistently good player I’ve ever seen  That’s not just Saints I don’t think I’ve seen a player in my life time who has kept his level so consistently high through his career. 

[Niels]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

Look I‘m bored now so won’t respond again. If other people on this forum think a one off game proves that the winning team is better than the losing team then fine, but I don’t. A season long league proves who the best team is, all teams can have off days and lose against weaker teams than them. That seems quite obvious to me, but maybe I’m wrong. 

It's absolutely clear and correct what you are saying. 

The rules of sport aren't necessarily designed to prove who is the best. An example is boxing where a fighter who has won all 11 rounds can still lose to a knockout in the last. If this happens the judges don't award the fight to the one who had been best the rest of the fight.

In rugby league, if we wanted to ensure the best team to win we would score on tries only for example.

In soccer XG, expected goals attempts to show who was the best on the day, to analyse for future betting. Experts use this, they don't just say, x team won so they were the best. It is a detailed science.

You even explained that of course all that matters is on the day. Whoever win gets the title World Champion.

It is also why sports such as snooker, darts, play more than one frame. For one game or event something can always go wrong.

I remember when Samao beat England many were at pains to say England didn't show up etc. But now because St Helens have won it is different.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Niels

[Chris22]

31 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

There’s no doubt Murphy was a great. But I disagree he’s the best Saint. His record doesn’t compare to Roby’s. But more interestingly, starting to see more and more from the generation who has seen them both say Roby is the Saints GOAT…

I haven't seen them both so maybe not best placed to comment. 

Roby has won every domestic honour there is to win as a team (at least twice) and an individual, with the exception of the Lance Todd Trophy. He has also captained St Helens to every trophy available to win.

The greatest player in a sport or a club will always be subjective because there are no defined criteria. And people can only comment on who the greatest that they have personally seen is. For me, in a Saints shirt, it's Roby.

[Eddie]

46 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

So you don't agree with the result of any sports World Cup final, or a tennis grand slam final, or snooker, darts, swimming, athletics etc etc...So Bolt wasn't the best sprinter in the world because he won 1 off finals??

That’s not what I’m saying chief. 

[Chris22]

Having sufficiently calmed myself, I think I'm now in a position to post a coherent comment! Our defence was incredible yesterday. It has been for years but showed it could hold out one of the best teams on the planet. Our fitness is probably on a different level to most if not all Super League teams and credit must go to our conditioning staff.

There's little to say about Welsby and Roby that haven't already been said. I'll say it anyway! Jack Welsby has the world at his feet. He can stay with Saints and be the best player in this competition for years or have a crack at the NRL, where he would be a leading light too. All subject to injuries etc. Roby's achievements as a Saints player I don't think will ever be surpassed.

Now to the unsung heroes. Mark Percival. Moved out of position, targeted all night with kicks, still coming back from a painful and unusual injury and was unflappable. A magnificent performance!  Matty Lees. He broke into our team at a young age and is getting better and better. He and Walmsley were more than a match for Fisher-Harris and Leota. Curtis Sironen. A slow start to his Saints career but has nailed a starting jersey now and is becoming ever more influential. Finally, Jake Wingfield. He has now forced his way into the starting 17 and I have high hopes for him for the future.

Was very pleased for Lewis Dodd too. It must have been a tough and lonely year for him in 2022. He deserved that winning moment.

We are very lucky at Saints in some ways. Well, we are as fans. As a club, I'd argue it isn't luck that a massive proportion of the best young players are here and it isn't luck that our NRL recruits have added a lot to us. It's excellent future planning, years in the making.

Our challenge now is to keep this team together. Walmsley, Roby, McCarthy-Scarsbook, Makinson and Lomax are all reaching the latter stages of their careers. Welsby, Dodd, Lees and Wingfield all have the potential to go to the NRL, if they wish. And with far higher salaries and a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, you couldn't blame any of them for going. If we can keep our young players, our dominance can continue for a while yet. If we can't, then there will probably be a changing of the guard.

As a Saints fan, I obviously want them to stay. From a wider perspective, I'm torn. Is it in our best interests for our talented young players to stay in Super League where we can enjoy them, or test themselves in a higher quality league and likely improve our international prospects?

[Oxford]

3 hours ago, Eddie said:

Look I‘m bored now so won’t respond again. If other people on this forum think a one off game proves that the winning team is better than the losing team then fine, but I don’t. A season long league proves who the best team is, all teams can have off days and lose against weaker teams than them. That seems quite obvious to me, but maybe I’m wrong. 

Yes you are ......

[Oxford]

41 minutes ago, Niels said:

It's absolutely clear and correct what you are saying. 

Oh no, it isn't!

These two teams won their respective leagues which earned them the right to be in this comp. It's not just a product of the one game and even if it was what would be the point of Hull derby bragging Rights?

The only problem I have with it is when it's held which means often as not you're not actually playing the exact same team that won the comp in the first place.

Are we just having that same old tired argument about League Leaders and Competition winners nearly 25 years into the 21st century and after so many GFs by proxy ?

[John Drake]

A few posts removed from this thread just now.

Please remember, it's ok to disagree with someone's opinion on here, but not to start throwing insults at them for expressing a point of view you don't agree with. That's not the TRL way.

Play nicely.

Thanks.

[Josef K]

What an amazing win. I didn’t have any confidence whatsoever with the NRL, their game and players being the master race of RL. I thought we would tire at some point and they would breakaway in the last 20mins (like the National side always used to do when GB/England played them, if anyone remembers).
They seemed a bit one dimensional with five drives down the middle and then a kick. Sironen was my MoM, but i also thought Welsby, Hurrell, Dodd, Walmsley, Roby, Matautia, LMS, were all excellent.